"We must reconstruct Maddie’s fateful night" says former Portuguese police chief.

[ShiningInLuz]

It's a technique similar to brainstorming and something the McCanns would be familiar with

It is nothing like brainstorming.  Brainstorming is where you create every solution you can think of before you whittle it down to the best.

They should have been feeding raw information to the PJ, not some collective idea of their view of what was the 'best'.

That the McCanns would be familiar with brainstorming has no relevance whatsoever.  First, the initial timelines were drawn up while the McCanns were talking to the police, and second, it's nothing akin to brainstorming.

[Mr Gray]

I'm sorry.  I don't see Jayne 'correcting' Russell before first interviews as the way to go.  It was the job of the PJ to detect and sort out any conflicts, not the T9.

I'd have the same issue if any other cohesive group got together and sorted out what they were going to say, in advance of interviews.  I seem to remember at least one dog team did that, and produced statements that are worded nearly identically.  Is that how it is supposed to work?  Not for me.

And some of the very odd times we've got from staff.  Should those staff members have got together in advance to work out the collective tale?  Again, not for me.

I got assaulted once (very minor).  The first thing the police did was to separate me from my partner so they got independent statements from both of us.

That may be how the police like to do it but I see nothing wrong with the T9 doing what they thought best
I was involved in an incident and the first thing I did was write down exactly what happened while it was fresh in my mind
Nothing odd about it
The point is...you find it odd...that doesn't mean it is odd

[Mr Gray]

It is nothing like brainstorming.  Brainstorming is where you create every solution you can think of before you whittle it down to the best.

They should have been feeding raw information to the PJ, not some collective idea of their view of what was the 'best'.

That the McCanns would be familiar with brainstorming has no relevance whatsoever.  First, the initial timelines were drawn up while the McCanns were talking to the police, and second, it's nothing akin to brainstorming.

Putting all the brains together is similar to brainstorming
That's why I said similar
Tell me why you think it was an odd thing to do and what inference you are drawing from it
These are people who are used to taking charge

[ShiningInLuz]

That may be how the police like to do it but I see nothing wrong with the T9 doing what they thought best
I was involved in an incident and the first thing I did was write down exactly what happened while it was fresh in my mind
Nothing odd about it
The point is...you find it odd...that doesn't mean it is odd

The fact that I find it odd means that I find it odd.

Other people are entitled to their opinion of it.

There was, and still is, one heck of a lot more the T9 could do for Madeleine, and yes, the fact that the have not and are not is something that I find very odd indeed.

[stephen25000]

That may be how the police like to do it but I see nothing wrong with the T9 doing what they thought best
I was involved in an incident and the first thing I did was write down exactly what happened while it was fresh in my mind
Nothing odd about it
The point is...you find it odd...that doesn't mean it is odd

We are told repeatedly they were in a state of panic, yet sat down and wrote their timelines.

Mutually exclusive events.

[Eleanor]

The fact that I find it odd means that I find it odd.

Other people are entitled to their opinion of it.

There was, and still is, one heck of a lot more the T9 could do for Madeleine, and yes, the fact that the have not and are not is something that I find very odd indeed.

What on earth do you think they could do?

[ShiningInLuz]

Putting all the brains together is similar to brainstorming
That's why I said similar
Tell me why you think it was an odd thing to do and what inference you are drawing from it
These are people who are used to taking charge

That is like saying a group of people in a pub having a conversation about a single topic are putting their brains together so it is like brainstorming.  What the T9 did bears no resemblance to brainstorming.

I have already said why I think it is odd.  I see no need to agree or amend my version of events before talking to authorities such as the police, given that I stay strictly on the right side of the law.

Who cares what inference I draw from it.  It is my inference, and I dare say in your next response you would be telling me it is my inference and not your inference.  We have already danced that dance in the last few posts.  Why do a repeat?

People used to taking charge?  Of what?  Police investigations?  Abductions?  Crimes on foreign soil?  If they did decide they were in charge, which I have not alleged, how did they get the right to be in charge of a police investigation in Portugal?  Nonsense.

[stephen25000]

They could have searched through the night and on subsequent days, as did the locals, the police and holidaymakers.

[G-Unit]

"Mutually Agreed" suggests Collusion.  I hope you aren't suggesting that.

The timelines according to Russell;

we were writing on the back of a piece of card, I thought it was a cereal box but obviously it was a children’s book, a very kind of, very, very, draft idea of what happened in the hour and, erm, and what state the windows and the shutters had been in and I think I, that was, that was written with me sat at the table in Kate and Gerry’s room.

the neat, maybe the neater version erm sat down at the table in Gerry’s flat with Gerry erm Dave PAYNE and at least at some stage of it, the two Officers from the, from the PJ”.

 Reply    “Erm, and so that was a timeline that was made purely by the nine of us

we were quite keen to try and get a time line together before some of the facts started to become dim for us as well, so I think it was Dave who, who suggested err as I’m not entirely sure of the exact date but certainly on sort of the Monday and the Tuesday perhaps of the, of the, the week after, the week after the abduction”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

Collusion can be accidental but either way it can mean evidence will be seen as unreliable;

 that witnesses may have shared their stories with one another and, intentionally or accidentally, changed or tailored their stories in order that their testimony would seem more similar or convincing. Such collusion can destroy the potential probative value of testimony that would otherwise have seemed independent and compelling. Trial judges must not only consider the possibility of such collusion in relation to the admissibility of similar fact evidence as part of their gate-keeping function where there is an air of reality to such collusion, but must also consider the possibility of such collusion in simply assessing the reliability of the evidence of the witnesses.

In the final analysis, however, it is for the trier of fact to detemine whether the testimony of the witnesses is reliable despite the possibility of collusion, or whether less weight, or no weight, should be given to the evidence which might have been influenced by the sharing of information.

William Poulos, Barrister
http://www.williampouloslaw.com/blog/uncategorized/collusion-amongst-witnesses-in-criminal-proceedings/

[Mr Gray]

It is nothing like brainstorming.  Brainstorming is where you create every solution you can think of before you whittle it down to the best.

They should have been feeding raw information to the PJ, not some collective idea of their view of what was the 'best'.

That the McCanns would be familiar with brainstorming has no relevance whatsoever.  First, the initial timelines were drawn up while the McCanns were talking to the police, and second, it's nothing akin to brainstorming.

I think you do not understand how their minds would work....you would want to feed raw information to the PJ...they would want to assist the PJ and have some sort of input...you find it odd....I find it perfectly natuaral

[Mr Gray]

The fact that I find it odd means that I find it odd.

Other people are entitled to their opinion of it.

There was, and still is, one heck of a lot more the T9 could do for Madeleine, and yes, the fact that the have not and are not is something that I find very odd indeed.

and I would think that is a very good reason that they would not want to work with you

[stephen25000]

and I would think that is a very good reason that they would not want to work with you

Shining has been very decent in offering her services to the mccanns.

They might have learned something.

[Mr Gray]

That is like saying a group of people in a pub having a conversation about a single topic are putting their brains together so it is like brainstorming.  What the T9 did bears no resemblance to brainstorming.

I have already said why I think it is odd.  I see no need to agree or amend my version of events before talking to authorities such as the police, given that I stay strictly on the right side of the law.

Who cares what inference I draw from it.  It is my inference, and I dare say in your next response you would be telling me it is my inference and not your inference.  We have already danced that dance in the last few posts.  Why do a repeat?

People used to taking charge?  Of what?  Police investigations?  Abductions?  Crimes on foreign soil?  If they did decide they were in charge, which I have not alleged, how did they get the right to be in charge of a police investigation in Portugal?  Nonsense.

They are poeple used to taking charge in a crisis...to suggest they wanted to take charge of the police investigation is more than a tad ridiculous....just as they expect intelligent patients to have input into their own treatment they would expect to have an input into the case

[Eleanor]

Shining has been very decent in offering her services to the mccanns.

They might have learned something.

What?  When she finds their explanations odd?

[Mr Gray]

Shining has been very decent in offering her services to the mccanns.

They might have learned something.

to put it kindly they probably have a lot of unsolicited offers of support and they go in the bin