Author Topic: "We must reconstruct Maddie’s fateful night" says former Portuguese police chief.  (Read 190847 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

I would think wake and wondering children in a resort are usually spotted or heard before disappearing off the face of the world. To make Madeleine disappear took planning and why OG would be most interested in phone calls at that time. Madeleine was loudly heard on TUE and the twins didn't make a sound.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

How would it be possible to reconstruct "Maddie's fateful night"?

What exactly would Goncalo Amaral expect to gain from such an attempt at such a remove, except a further headline for himself in the tabloids?

We know for example that Mr and Mrs Moyes were out walking in the area at a very relevant time indeed. 

Yet they were not questioned at the time ~ let alone asked to participate in a reconstruction.

**snip
We walked back about nine o’clock, round past, erm, the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment. Went out on the balcony about quarter past nine. Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely. Susan Moyes
https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/

Mr and Mrs Moyes were not just casual passers by who might have been difficult to trace ... they were in the exact place at what might have been a relevant time; they were resident in the same building from which Madeleine disappeared; they took part in the search for her.

Yet no-one in authority took the time or the trouble to knock on their door ... just as no-one in authority bothered to speak to Mrs Fenn.

How many other potential witnesses were not interviewed when three in the same building from which Madeleine had disappeared were not.

The time to have a reconstruction was at the time when many people not directly involved in the case were still available and whose memory of events might have been jogged.

It would have been just another night for the Moyes blending into others if someone hadn't banged on their door looking for a little girl.
Perhaps someone out with the immediate search area who had also been out and about might have recalled something at the time if a sympathetic reconstruction had been effected.

I wonder how much Mr Amaral's decision not to have a reconstruction at the time might have been influenced more by the request for a priest and his own burgeoning master plan ... than interfering with flights in and out of the airport?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Precisely G-Unit.

From Kate Mccanns very own words.

Again to remind davel, there is an absence of evidence for how Madeleine was removed from the apartment, let alone whether it was 1 or more persons.
if you read my post you will see that I accept maddie may have walked out of the apartment but the archiving report found it unlikely...therefore a crime is likely...according to the archiving report

Offline Mr Gray

I would think wake and wondering children in a resort are usually spotted or heard before disappearing off the face of the world. To make Madeleine disappear took planning and why OG would be most interested in phone calls at that time. Madeleine was loudly heard on TUE and the twins didn't make a sound.

totally agree apart from the crying of course
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:54:57 AM by davel »

Offline Brietta

I would think wake and wondering children in a resort are usually spotted or heard before disappearing off the face of the world. To make Madeleine disappear took planning and why OG would be most interested in phone calls at that time. Madeleine was loudly heard on TUE and the twins didn't make a sound.

I agree with the first two sentences of your post.

There is no evidence at all to support your last sentence, only supposition.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

if you read my post you will see that I accept maddie may have walked out of the apartment but the archiving report found it unlikely...therefore a crime is likely...according to the archiving report

The archiving report finding it unlikely doesn't mean it didn't happen. The PJ didn't get everything right, you know;

From pages 3932 to 3937, another witness alleged that she had seen GERALD McCANN, in Avenida Descobrimentos, in Lagos, near an ATM terminal, at around 2.26 p.m. on the 7th of May 2007. According to the witness, the father of the minor was talking on the phone, saying "don’t hurt Madeleine, please". She was not peremptory in affirming that it was GERALD McCANN. It seems unlikely to us that it was GERALD, given the fact that on that day, he only activated antennas in Praia da Luz, adding to the fact that, at around 2.16 p.m., he activated an antenna in the centre of Praia da Luz, which we consider to make it impossible that he was present in Lagos ten minutes later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

What the PJ didn't know when that report was written was that Gerry McCann had two mobile phones, so their conclusion that it was impossible for him to be in Lagos can be questioned.

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Offline Mr Gray

The archiving report finding it unlikely doesn't mean it didn't happen. The PJ didn't get everything right, you know;

From pages 3932 to 3937, another witness alleged that she had seen GERALD McCANN, in Avenida Descobrimentos, in Lagos, near an ATM terminal, at around 2.26 p.m. on the 7th of May 2007. According to the witness, the father of the minor was talking on the phone, saying "don’t hurt Madeleine, please". She was not peremptory in affirming that it was GERALD McCANN. It seems unlikely to us that it was GERALD, given the fact that on that day, he only activated antennas in Praia da Luz, adding to the fact that, at around 2.16 p.m., he activated an antenna in the centre of Praia da Luz, which we consider to make it impossible that he was present in Lagos ten minutes later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

What the PJ didn't know when that report was written was that Gerry McCann had two mobile phones, so their conclusion that it was impossible for him to be in Lagos can be questioned.

never said it didn't happen...

Offline pegasus

What was it's purpose? How was it going to help?
To help work out the time at which the child, by whatever means, left the apartment

Offline pathfinder73

I agree with the first two sentences of your post.

There is no evidence at all to support your last sentence, only supposition.

The twins were in their cots with the door only ajar allegedly (far bedroom away from Pamela Fenn's living room above). No evidence in your dreams.

"At approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted 'Daddy, Daddy', the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below.

She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 11:15:54 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

To help work out the time at which the child, by whatever means, left the apartment

That's an assumption, no-one has said that was why they did it.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Brietta

The twins were in their cots with the door only ajar allegedly (far bedroom away from Pamela Fenn's living room above). No evidence in your dreams.

"At approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted 'Daddy, Daddy', the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below.

She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

She phoned her friend, I believe?

I believe she phoned Murat?

Did she think to phone anyone who might have been in a position to offer assistance to a child who must have been terribly distressed ... Mark Warner reception or the police?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

She phoned her friend, I believe?

I believe she phoned Murat?

Did she think to phone anyone who might have been in a position to offer assistance to a child who must have been terribly distressed ... Mark Warner reception or the police?
She phoned a friend called Edna G. I've already suggested that the PJ/OG investigation should request the PTelecom landline record. IMO the phone record is likely to demonstrate that the 11pm call from PF to EG, and therefore the one hour 15 minutes of continuous crying, was on Wednesday night.
The statement of the most important witness of all says very clearly that the crying was on Wednesday night.

Offline Benice

She phoned a friend called Edna G. I've already suggested that the PJ/OG investigation should request the PTelecom landline record. IMO the phone record is likely to demonstrate that the 11pm call from PF to EG, and therefore the one hour 15 minutes of continuous crying, was on Wednesday night.
The statement of the most important witness of all says very clearly that the crying was on Wednesday night.

If Madeleine and Sean had cried on Wednesday night (the 2nd) then Rachael Oldfield would have heard them  from next door - as she stayed in that night.

Also isn't that the night that Gerry went home ahead of Kate - and so Mrs Fenn would have heard the patio doors open twice?

IMO

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Alice Purjorick

The statement by redwood is evidence of their non involvement...the fact that they are not being investigated is evidence of their non involvement . You have NO evidence that SY have been told not to investigate the McCanns.
The idea that SY have reviewed all the evidence and ignored any implicating the McCanns is simply ridiculous.
You seem to have a problem accepting evidence which points to the non involvement of the McCanns

when was the remit drawn up....was it not after SY had looked at the files...looked at the evidence and seen there was nothing to mimplicate the McCanns

How do you know with any degree of certainty they are not that final lead that Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe says is being followed ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

never said it didn't happen...

Herein lies the secret of always being right.
The verb has neither subject nor defined object  @)(++(*
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey