"We must reconstruct Maddie’s fateful night" says former Portuguese police chief.

[pathfinder73]

OK the important clue for me there was "but certainly the curtains were shut and everything was quiet'."  Later a Kate's check the curtains are open.  The event happened after Matt's check IMO based on that clue. 

So why the uncertainty about whether the gates were open or shut in the agreed time line?

I found an error so there maybe more. If the gate was open it suggests somebody else opened it and not Gerry before Matt arrived.

[Brietta]

Try front door open, back door opens - middle door slams shut.

Front door open, back door closed - middle door stays open.- exactly where it was

When she says the door was open wider, than when she left.

How would she know that, when checks was done, before hers.

How did she know how, they had left the door.

If the aperture was not as she preferred it to be why shouldn't she adjust it ... at the time she had no idea at all that Madeleine was missing from her bed nor did the difference in position have any significance other than it was not as she had left it.
I take it you are aware that she knew there had been authorised entry to the apartment?

[Robittybob1]

I found an error so there maybe more. If the gate was open it suggests somebody else opened it and not Gerry before Matt arrived.

I was claiming the error as my find.  Has no one discussed the probably opened gates before in the last 11 years and the implication coming from that?

Well in my list of options for the open gates it is always possible Gerry left them insecure when he first noted Jez.  Gerry being distracted by the presence of someone in the area.

[sadie]

OK the important clue for me there was "but certainly the curtains were shut and everything was quiet'."  Later a Kate's check the curtains are open.  The event happened after Matt's check IMO based on that clue. 

So why the uncertainty about whether the gates were open or shut in the agreed time line?

I haven't checked it, but I rather think that Kate said that the curtains whooshed open

If they were on good runners, the curtians could easily have opened from closed via that sudden gust of wind IMO

[Robittybob1]

I haven't checked it, but I rather think that Kate said that the curtains whooshed open

If they were on good runners, the curtians could easily have opened from closed via that sudden gust of wind IMO

The drapes were long and heavy and you'd need a gale to move them.  IMO

[Brietta]

The drapes were long and heavy and you'd need a gale to move them.  IMO

I think you are wrong that the drapes were heavy.  12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3213 shows the sunlight shining through the blue ones in the sitting room ... if they were heavy or even lined in my opinion that just would not happen.

Do you know what material they were made of?

[pathfinder73]

I was claiming the error as my find.  Has no one discussed the probably opened gates before in the last 11 years and the implication coming from that?

Well in my list of options for the open gates it is always possible Gerry left them insecure when he first noted Jez.  Gerry being distracted by the presence of someone in the area.

This is the error:

MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Matt contradicts that alleged statement in his rog. Everything was quiet. He heard no sounds.

[Robittybob1]

This is the error:

MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Matt contradicts that alleged statement in his rog. Everything was quiet. He heard no sounds.

We have been discussing false memory.  How much can you trust all these recalls and make anything definite out of them?  It has left me feeling a single testimony is not to be treated as evidence.  If he contradicts himself then it is even more suspect, but no one can be sure when the truth is being spoken IMO

[Brietta]

This is the error:

MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Matt contradicts that alleged statement in his rog. Everything was quiet. He heard no sounds.

The rogatory statements were recorded the one to which you refer was not.  Goodness gracious if an eighteen month old infant was making a sound as if "rolling over in their cot" that would have been a matter for immediate concern and investigation in my opinion.
At risk of repeating myself ... paraphrased how many times translated statements?? just do not cut the mustard.

[Robittybob1]

I think you are wrong that the drapes were heavy.  12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3213 shows the sunlight shining through the blue ones in the sitting room ... if they were heavy or even lined in my opinion that just would not happen.

Do you know what material they were made of?

I was going to reply to you sooner.  I saw a photo of the drapes and the one on the left was sprawled over the bed and I was able to see the length of it.  It might not be really heavy but compared to the net curtains also present, the drapes would take a lot more wind to blow them around.

[sadie]

The drapes were long and heavy and you'd need a gale to move them.  IMO

They were long but rather shoddy IMO.   They would blow in a sudden gust very easily, again iIMO

[faithlilly]

Lets not forget that the slamming door and whooshing curtains do not feature in any police statement.

The PJ and SY were and are trying to piece together what happened, trying to find Madeleine, without having this vital piece of evidence.

!
The only people Kate has told are TV companies and the whole world in the book, but that is not evidence.
For that it needs to be on paper in a Police statement, with the force of the introductory rubric

This statement is true. I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I am liable for prosecution if I have stated in it anything I know to be false, or do not believe to be true.. . Signed .........."
And that she has never done.
And probably never will.imo

It's a funny old world, supporter wise kizzy. Even though the whooshing curtains appear in none of Kate's witness statements, supporters are convinced it happened. On the other hand Gerry telling all and sundry that the shutters had been jemmied didn't happen because it's not in any of his statements ! You pays your money.......!

[Brietta]

I was going to reply to you sooner.  I saw a photo of the drapes and the one on the left was sprawled over the bed and I was able to see the length of it.  It might not be really heavy but compared to the net curtains also present, the drapes would take a lot more wind to blow them around.

In my opinion the rumpled matching bedspread is what can be seen on the bed and not the curtain.  Following from Kate's description of the curtains "whooshing" I agree that the length would be an inhibiting factor, but not for net curtains which I am sure most of us have seen being blown as Kate described.
If the window was open and the inner curtains drawn to the side the nets would blow freely in gusts of wind.


I was looking at the crime scene photograph, not the one you posted earlier, Robitty.

[faithlilly]

In my opinion the rumpled matching bedspread is what can be seen on the bed and not the curtain.  Following from Kate's description of the curtains "whooshing" I agree that the length would be an inhibiting factor, but not for net curtains which I am sure most of us have seen being blown as Kate described.
If the window was open and the inner curtains drawn to the side the nets would blow freely in gusts of wind.


I was looking at the crime scene photograph, not the one you posted earlier, Robitty.

I agree that the material on the bed is the quilt cover however if there are nets drawn back behind the curtains ( it's hard to see in the photograph) even when drawn only one side would 'whoosh'' up as the window slides to one side so only that side would have been open and also with the patterned curtains being stuck behind the bed it would be almost impossible for the nets to 'whoosh to such a height that the window would be fully revealed as Kate suggests.

[Brietta]

I agree that the material on the bed is the quilt cover however if there are nets drawn back behind the curtains ( it's hard to see in the photograph) even when drawn only one side would 'whoosh'' up as the window slides to one side so only that side would have been open and also with the patterned curtains being stuck behind the bed it would be almost impossible for the nets to 'whoosh to such a height that the window would be fully revealed as Kate suggests.

Did Kate suggest that?  Wasn't it the curtains whooshing in the wind that alerted her to the fact the window was open ... one would have thought so.