Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Holly Goodhead]

The only part of that I cannot sympathise with is the four shots in the kitchen claim. It cannot be established beyond doubt that all four shots occurred in the kitchen since one empty casing associated with those shots was found at the foot of the stairs.  That would suggest several possible scenarios.

1. Nevill was shot four times in the kitchen but one casing got carried in someone's boot to the stairs.

2. Nevill was shot by someone higher up the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

3. Nevill was shot by someone standing near the bottom of the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

I'm confused about a casing found at the foot of the stairs?  I thought it was found on the landing upstairs preceding the two stairs which lead directly into the main bedroom?

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't think SC would ever have agreed to move back to Essex.  If she did JB might have welcomed it.  He may have said let's swap with SC having his cottage in Goldhanger and JB having SC's flat in London.  JB could have worked on the farm during the week sleeping at WHF Mon - Thu eve and then spent his w.e's and holidays in London.

If he pulled during the week he could use one of the caravans at OCP.  June had her own caravan there.  Then impressed at the w.e with his London pad.

[adam]

I don't think SC would ever have agreed to move back to Essex.  If she did JB might have welcomed it.  He may have said let's swap with SC having his cottage in Goldhanger and JB having SC's flat in London.  JB could have worked on the farm during the week sleeping at WHF Mon - Thu eve and then spent his w.e's and holidays in London.

Sheila doesn't have much say. It's Neville's and June's money.

If Bamber was right and Sheila and the twins were moving into his cottage, that would infuriate Bamber. He had spent hours and thousands refurbishing it.

Surely Bamber wasn't going to move back into WHF. If not Neville would be giving him somewhere smaller to live in. Anywhere bigger available would have been given to Sheila out of neccessity.

Another option would be for Neville to increase Bamber's wages and tell him to find his own property. Which would upset him as it if he couldn't afford to buy or rent somewhere decent, he would have to live in a bedsit or shared house. Either which way, it was not benefitting Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

Sheila doesn't have much say. It's Neville's and June's money.

If Bamber was right and Sheila and the twins were moving into his cottage, that would infuriate Bamber. He had spent hours and thousands refurbishing it.

Surely Bamber wasn't going to move back into WHF. If not Neville would be giving him somewhere smaller to live in. Anywhere bigger available would have been given to Sheila out of neccessity.

Another option would be for Neville to increase Bamber's wages and tell him to find his own property. Which would upset him as it if he couldn't afford to buy or rent somewhere decent, he would have to live in a bedsit or shared house. Either which way, it was not benefitting Bamber.

CAL's book mentions another property that had been earmarked for JB in Essex.  I'll look it up later. 

The Bambers were not short of a bob or two.  They were financially generous to SC and JB and there's no evidence they favoured one over the other either emotionally or financially. 

[adam]

It would be interesting to know what other property Neville and June had earmarked for Bamber. And where CAL got this information from. If Bamber told CAL,  I would be suspicious. He would have to give the impression everything was fine with him, pre massacre.

Thought an option would be for Sheila to move into WHF. There was enough room. 

[Myster]

CAL's book mentions another property that had been earmarked for JB in Essex.  I'll look it up later. 

The Bambers were not short of a bob or two.  They were financially generous to SC and JB and there's no evidence they favoured one over the other either emotionally or financially.

A house on Gardener's Farm, not far off Osea Caravan Park..."once we owned it and did it up"... or so he says.

[Myster]

I'm confused about a casing found at the foot of the stairs?  I thought it was found on the landing upstairs preceding the two stairs which lead directly into the main bedroom?

Approx. position of DRH14. Another couple of steps to the top landing are omitted from the drawing...

[Angelo222]

I'm confused about a casing found at the foot of the stairs?  I thought it was found on the landing upstairs preceding the two stairs which lead directly into the main bedroom?

DRH/13 was found on the landing just by the master bedroom door.  DRH/14 is clearly down several steps described as being "bottom of first landing" as seen on the official sketch below. The forensics guy suggested that bullet was trod on and moved to the stairs but noted below is suggestion that both bullets refer to June (second episode) which is also possible.  If this is correct then Neville was shot 6 times in the bedroom and not 5.  That in itself would fit with the two remaining shots (total 8) being made to the top of his head as he lay slumped after being beaten with the rifle stock.

[John]

I think that sketch is a bit askew Angelo.  Take note of the position of bullets DRH/13 and DRH/14 in the one below.  The latter being down two steps from the top landing.  This bullet could have been transferred from the kitchen but it is doubtful, most likely was associated with the second episode shooting of June Bamber.

Three empty casings were found in the kitchen, all associated with the second episode shooting of Nevill.

To sum up...

Nevill was shot 8 times (5 times as he stood in the master bedroom and 3 times in the kitchen).
June was shot 7 times in the master bedroom over two episodes.
Sheila shot twice in the master bedroom.
Daniel shot 5 times in children's bedroom.
Nicholas shot 3 times in children's bedroom.

[Myster]

I think that sketch is a bit askew Angelo.  Take note of the position of bullets DRH/13 and DRH/14 in the one below.  The latter being down two steps from the top landing.  This bullet could have been transferred from the kitchen but it is doubtful, most likely was associated with the second episode shooting of June Bamber.

And there are far too many steps between upper and lower landing in the earlier one.

[Myster]

I think that sketch is a bit askew Angelo.  Take note of the position of bullets DRH/13 and DRH/14 in the one below.  The latter being down two steps from the top landing.  This bullet could have been transferred from the kitchen but it is doubtful, most likely was associated with the second episode shooting of June Bamber.

Three empty casings were found in the kitchen, all associated with the second episode shooting of Nevill.

To sum up...

Nevill was shot 8 times (5 times as he stood in the master bedroom and 3 times in the kitchen).
June was shot 7 times in the master bedroom over two episodes.
Sheila shot twice in the master bedroom.
Daniel shot 5 times in children's bedroom.
Nicholas shot 3 times in children's bedroom.

But John, Nevill couldn't have received any of the shots to the top of his head in the bedroom AND then made his way downstairs (unless he was carried!) I think Vanezis was correct when he said the 4 head shots were received in the kitchen after Nevill had ceased to struggle and his head was below the killer. The two wounds in each group were very close together indicating that the bullets were fired immediately after each other.

[Opal]

Reading CAL's book I was left with the impression JB had a good relationship with NB.

If the OCP argument you are referring to relates to some fencing, AE supported JB on this.

 It's not unusual in family run businesses for members to disagree especially across generations.

It was in CAL's book (p.137) Holly, but not the time you mention above. This time was on 18th July 1985. Jeremy had a blazing row with Neville at a Director's Meeting...not the AGM. Ann Eaton couldn't remember what this was about, her parents were also present. 18th July also being SC's birthday! Friends of JB have spoken about him saying how much he hated his family. It was after this back at WHF with RB and PB that NB said to RB...on seeing and removing a rifle and ammo on the settle in back hall words to the effect...."don't want to make it easy for the next gun to jump into my shoes".

[Holly Goodhead]

A house on Gardener's Farm, not far off Osea Caravan Park..."once we owned it and did it up"... or so he says.

Are there any properties on 'Gardener's Farm'?  It seems it's a farm shop?

In Nov 1984 NB bought JB some land at Little Renters Farm and this contains several cottages.  Ironically it seems the day after the tragedy they became listed.  How bizarre is that?!

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-119004-renters-cottage-little-totham-essex/bingmap#.VzdN6OSu_IU

[Holly Goodhead]

It was in CAL's book (p.137) Holly, but not the time you mention above. This time was on 18th July 1985. Jeremy had a blazing row with Neville at a Director's Meeting...not the AGM. Ann Eaton couldn't remember what this was about, her parents were also present. 18th July also being SC's birthday! Friends of JB have spoken about him saying how much he hated his family.

Thanks.  Can any of us say we haven't at some time had a "blazing row" with a member of our family?  If the "blazing row" was that memorable I'm surprised AE was unable to elaborate.  Didn't AE go home and tear down some wallpaper in her bathroom because JB angered her? 

The "friends" that spoke of JB hating his family tended to be connected to the family or JM in some way.  The likes of Brett Collins, Suzette Ford, June's long serving housekeeper, Jean Boutell, and many others never heard him say anything derogatory about his family. 

[Myster]

Are there any properties on 'Gardener's Farm'?  It seems it's a farm shop?

In Nov 1984 NB bought JB some land at Little Renters Farm and this contains several cottages.  Ironically it seems the day after the tragedy they became listed.  How bizarre is that?!

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-119004-renters-cottage-little-totham-essex/bingmap#.VzdN6OSu_IU

Several in 2016, maybe the odd one in 1985...

[attachment deleted by admin]