Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Holly Goodhead]

It would be interesting to know what other property Neville and June had earmarked for Bamber. And where CAL got this information from. If Bamber told CAL,  I would be suspicious. He would have to give the impression everything was fine with him, pre massacre.

Thought an option would be for Sheila to move into WHF. There was enough room.

Yes JB did tell CAL:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7216.msg331444#msg331444

I don't believe SC would ever have agreed to move to Essex.  Even if she did CC would never have agreed to the twins being brought up in Essex by SC/June. 

[Holly Goodhead]

DRH/13 was found on the landing just by the master bedroom door.  DRH/14 is clearly down several steps described as being "bottom of first landing" as seen on the official sketch below. The forensics guy suggested that bullet was trod on and moved to the stairs but noted below is suggestion that both bullets refer to June (second episode) which is also possible.  If this is correct then Neville was shot 6 times in the bedroom and not 5.  That in itself would fit with the two remaining shots (total 8) being made to the top of his head as he lay slumped after being beaten with the rifle stock.

I don't know how "official" the sketch is.  I've never been able to find out who drew it up and when.

Did the forensics guy make the suggestion or did it come from EP?

Although Dr Vanezis visited WHF on 8th Aug he was not aware of the location of the casings and admits he had no idea of the sequence of injuries:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

[adam]

I just clicked on that link. It just takes me to this thread.

Sheila would do as Neville and June wanted. It was their money.

The easiest and cheapest thing would be for Sheila to move back into WHF. It was big enough for her. The twins were looked after by CC, I'm sure WHF could accommodate them when they visited, just as they were doing on the massacre night.

So it is surprising Bamber said in his WS that there were discussions about Sheila moving into his cottage. At the time it may have been put into his WS to show the jury how considerate and helpful he was towards his sister and family. However now it is just another reason why he would feel aggrieved.

[Holly Goodhead]

I just clicked on that link. It just takes me to this thread.

Sheila would do as Neville and June wanted. It was their money.

The easiest and cheapest thing would be for Sheila to move back into WHF. It was big enough for her. The twins were looked after by CC, I'm sure WHF could accommodate them when they visited, just as they were doing on the massacre night.

So it is surprising Bamber said in his WS that there were discussions about Sheila moving into his cottage. At the time it may have been put his WS to show the jury how considerate and helpful he was towards his sister and family. However now it is just another reason why he would feel aggrieved.

Sorry Adam I meant to link you to my post #147. 

Yes SC was financially dependent on June and NB but I doubt they would force her to do something against her will eg move back to Essex with or without the twins if she didn't want to.  How would this improve her mental state?

Are you suggesting SC would move back to Essex and CC remain in London with the twins? 

[Opal]

I don't know how "official" the sketch is.  I've never been able to find out who drew it up and when.

Did the forensics guy make the suggestion or did it come from EP?

Although Dr Vanezis visited WHF on 8th Aug he was not aware of the location of the casings and admits he had no idea of the sequence of injuries:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

I've always believed the 14th bullet casing was found at the bottom of the long flight of stairs up from the kitchen. Three bullet casings found in Kitchen, with the 4th being found at bottom of flight of stairs.....carried here perhaps by police shoes. Now I'm really confused!  ( four shots fired one after the other in Kitchen)

Could someone tell me where officially NB's blood was found upstairs....apart from smears on the hall wallpaper?

 &%+((£

[adam]

Sorry Adam I meant to link you to my post #147. 

Yes SC was financially dependent on June and NB but I doubt they would force her to do something against her will eg move back to Essex with or without the twins if she didn't want to.  How would this improve her mental state?

Are you suggesting SC would move back to Essex and CC remain in London with the twins?

Well they got Bamber to work 14 hour days. Sheila couldn't start negotiating. She had nothing to negotiate with. If she was in a mental state, living away from her parents wouldn't help. Neville couldn't keep driving over. 

If CC had legal custody of the twins, he could live with them where he wanted. Providing he gave Sheila access when he was supposed to.

[Holly Goodhead]

I've always believed the 14th bullet casing was found at the bottom of the long flight of stairs up from the kitchen. Three bullet casings found in Kitchen, with the 4th being found at bottom of flight of stairs.....carried here perhaps by police shoes. Now I'm really confused!  ( four shots fired one after the other in Kitchen)

Could someone tell me where officially NB's blood was found upstairs....apart from smears on the hall wallpaper?

 &%+((£

What made you believe that Opal?

I think you will find most will agree the casing we're discussing was found just outside the main bedroom door.  Probably under the picture in the following photo:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920

None of NB's blood was officially found upstairs.

[Holly Goodhead]

Well they got Bamber to work 14 hour days. Sheila couldn't start negotiating. She had nothing to negotiate with. If she was in a mental state, living away from her parents wouldn't help. Neville couldn't keep driving over. 

If CC had legal custody of the twins, he could live with them where he wanted. Providing he gave Sheila access when he was supposed to.

14 hours a day!  JM said when she first met JB he was working at Sloppy Joes in the evening and on the farm.  The Sun Journo in 'Killing Mum and Dad' said JB was rampant on the Essex night scene pulling birds when JM was in London.  Where did he find the time and energy?  A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

CC didn't have legal custody of the twins.  There was no court order in place just informal arrangements. 

[adam]

14 hours a day!  JM said when she first met JB he was working at Sloppy Joes in the evening and on the farm.  The Sun Journo in 'Killing Mum and Dad' said JB was rampant on the Essex night scene pulling birds when JM was in London.  Where did he find the time and energy?  A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

CC didn't have legal custody of the twins.  There was no court order in place just informal arrangements.

Sloppy Joes is nothing to do with Bambers last 18 months working on WHF.

Custody or informal arrangement, CC could live where he wanted. London was not far from Essex.

What were the alleged fostering conversations about,  if CC believed Sheila was well enough to have an informal arrangement with him over the twins ?

Do you believe Bamber was telling the truth in his WS when he said there were discussions about Sheila moving into the cottage ?

[Myster]

Amazing how differential focusing improves a photo, Holls... makes the flowers really stand out.
All you've got to watch out for now is Pistol Packin' Pete reading the legend. 

[APRIL]

Well they got Bamber to work 14 hour days. Sheila couldn't start negotiating. She had nothing to negotiate with. If she was in a mental state, living away from her parents wouldn't help. Neville couldn't keep driving over. 

If CC had legal custody of the twins, he could live with them where he wanted. Providing he gave Sheila access when he was supposed to.

Adam, you keep flogging this "14 hour day" thing. It's highly likely that it was such during harvest time but as a general rule, NO farmer of my knowledge, works those hours routinely.

[Holly Goodhead]

Sloppy Joes is nothing to do with Bambers last 18 months working on WHF.

Custody or informal arrangement, CC could live where he wanted. London was not far from Essex.

What were the alleged fostering conversations about,  if CC believed Sheila was well enough to have an informal arrangement with him over the twins ?

Do you believe Bamber was telling the truth in his WS when he said there were duscussions about Sheila moving into the cottage ?

Yes CC could live where he wanted but he obviously wanted to live with or close to the twins.  If you read his WS he states when he separated from SC he went to live with his father (in London).  After 3 months he found somewhere to live in Hampstead so he could be closer to the twins.

Hampstead/North West London is about 1.5 hours drive to WHF. 

The informal arrangement was made when CC and SC first separated and before SC's mental illness set in.

If you read JB's WS he said various things were under discussion which in the eyes of his parents would help SC.  Key words 'in the eyes of his parents'.  NB and June were doing what they thought was best for SC and the twins ie relocating them to Essex where they could support SC and the twins and provide SC with some paid work which she did want.  But it would never have happened.  SC would not have wanted to move back to Essex even with the twins.  CC would never have allowed SC and June to bring up the twins and imo he had good reasons for feeling this way. 

What caring parent in his/her right mind would allow SC and June to bring up children?  Could anyone read CC's letter and not feel very afraid for the twins? 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7211.msg330196#msg330196

[adam]

Yes CC could live where he wanted but he obviously wanted to live with or close to the twins.  If you read his WS he states when he separated from SC he went to live with his father (in London).  After 3 months he found somewhere to live in Hampstead so he could be closer to the twins.

Hampstead/North West London is about 1.5 hours drive to WHF. 

The informal arrangement was made when CC and SC first separated and before SC's mental illness set in.

If you read JB's WS he said various things were under discussion which in the eyes of his parents would help SC.  Key words 'in the eyes of his parents'.  NB and June were doing what they thought was best for SC and the twins ie relocating them to Essex where they could support SC and the twins and provide SC with some paid work which she did want.  But it would never have happened.  SC would not have wanted to move back to Essex even with the twins.  CC would never have allowed SC and June to bring up the twins and imo he had good reasons for feeling this way. 

What caring parent in his/her right mind would allow SC and June to bring up children?  Could anyone read CC's letter and not feel very afraid for the twins? 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7211.msg330196#msg330196

'Before Sheila's mental illness'. Does that mean CC now had custody of the twins ?

Anyway, it seems there were discussions about Sheila moving back to be near her parents. Bamber said so in his WS and surely an innocent man would not lie.  But in you're opinion , Sheila would have refused to go.

[Holly Goodhead]

Amazing how differential focusing improves a photo, Holls... makes the flowers really stand out.
All you've got to watch out for now is Pistol Packin' Pete reading the legend. 

Yes, thank you it's quite beautiful and I will treasure if forever x

PPP did post on here for a while but I don't think it's really his thing. 

[Holly Goodhead]

'Before Sheila's mental illness'. Does that mean CC now had custody of the twins ?

Anyway, it seems there were discussions about Sheila moving back to be near her parents. Bamber said so in his WS and surely an innocent man would not lie.  But in you're opinion , Sheila would have refused to go.

No, CC did not have legal custody of the twins.  Up until the tragedy he was full-time parent to the twins by mutual agreement with SC. 

Why would SC want to live at or around WHF? 

- She hadn't lived permanently in Essex since around the age of 10
- She didn't drive so would be reliant on others and/or public transport.  A nightmare in rural locations.
- She had no known interests in country life
- She had little or nothing in common with June
- She had none of her own friends in Essex
- She seemed to prefer the company of more cosmopolitan types such as actor Don Hawkins and Iranian Freddie Emami as opposed to what some might regard as small minded townies!