Was the colour of the bedroom curtains as seen by Matt a clue?

[Benice]

I was recalling facts, in case you hadn't noticed, including from Kate Mccanns mouth.

So tell me how could Kate Mccann say Madeleine had been abducted, if she wasn't there ?

But I thought you didn't believe anything that came from Kate McCanns mouth?   Are you now saying that you do believe she said 'They've taken her'?    Please clarify.

If you can't work out for yourself  why - having found the windows and shutters open and Madeleine gone - Kate believed an intruder had entered the bedroom and taken her daughter- then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.

[stephen25000]

But I thought you didn't believe anything that came from Kate McCanns mouth?   Are you now saying that you do believe she said 'They've taken her'?    Please clarify.

If you can't work out for yourself  why - having found the windows and shutters open and Madeleine gone - Kate believed an intruder had entered the bedroom and taken her daughter- then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.

Don't try twisting, it won't work.

What Kate Mccann said was heard by other people.

As to whether the window was open when she got there, well that has not been independently verified, has it.

[stephen25000]

I suggest you read my post again as your response does not address any of the points made in it -  in any way shape or form.

That is a matter of perspective, as your intentions have always been clear cut.

[Benice]

That is a matter of perspective, as your intentions have always been clear cut.

Here is my post followed by your reply to it.   Could you point out any connection between the points I made and your reply  - as for the life of me I can't see any?     I don't even mention 'searching' - so what myth am I trying to pull in that regard?

My post
I notice that while you blame the parents for not behaving like policemen as soon as they found Madeleine missing -you have no criticism at all of the actual policemen themselves whose duty it was to behave like policemen  - but who failed miserably to secure the area as a priority  - resulting in far more people than necessary being allowed into 5A and dog hairs and fingerprint powder to be deposited all over the floors.   

How anyone can ignore those mistakes made by policemen who should have known better  - but instead choose to blame the distraught parents for not doing their job for them is incomprehensible to me.

Your reply
Utter rubbish.

Madeleine was searched for extensively.

By the police, local residents and holidaymakers.

So don't try pulling on that old myth yet again.

[stephen25000]

Here is my post followed by your reply to it.   Could you point out any connection between the points I made and your reply  - as for the life of me I can't see any?     I don't even mention 'searching' - so what myth am I trying to pull in that regard?

My post
I notice that while you blame the parents for not behaving like policemen as soon as they found Madeleine missing -you have no criticism at all of the actual policemen themselves whose duty it was to behave like policemen  - but who failed miserably to secure the area as a priority  - resulting in far more people than necessary being allowed into 5A and dog hairs and fingerprint powder to be deposited all over the floors.   

How anyone can ignore those mistakes made by policemen who should have known better  - but instead choose to blame the distraught parents for not doing their job for them is incomprehensible to me.

Your reply
Utter rubbish.

Madeleine was searched for extensively.

By the police, local residents and holidaymakers.

So don't try pulling on that old myth yet again.

I read your post.

It was your opinion.

Why did you FAIL yet again to state that the Mccanns and co., had already trampled through the apartment for  apparently an abducted child.

So they contaminated the crime scene.

Your repeated criticism of the police in Portugal , common Mccann mantra of course doesn't wash, and never has or will.

[sadie]

I was recalling facts, in case you hadn't noticed, including from Kate Mccanns mouth.

So tell me how could Kate Mccann say Madeleine had been abducted, if she wasn't there ?

Stephen, you are not thinking this oit very well.

Have you considered the fact that Kate (and Gerry) as doctors, may have had to deal with abducted and assaulted children before .... and know the horrors first hand. 

Have you not considered the fact that one of the first things to happen when they found Madeleine missing would be to have their minds racing thru all the possible scenarios?  ... and in their despair vocalize the worst, but at the same time hope for the best ....

.....until it became obvious that the worst was what had happened.


Oh, the despair must have been terrible.  Who is to criticize them for falling to their knees as they did ... and wailing.

I suspect that you have never had a real trauma in your life concerning your children (if you have any).

If you had then I cant imagine that you would even consider criticizing them for the depth of their despair.

And to suggest, as you did in an  earlier post, that they put it on for the police is an insult to not only the Mccanns but to any right thinking person 

[stephen25000]

Stephen, you are not thinking this oit very well.

Have you considered the fact that Kate (and Gerry) as doctors, may have had to deal with abducted and assaulted children before .... and know the horrors first hand. 

Have you not considered the fact that one of the first things to happen when they found Madeleine missing would be to have their minds racing thru all the possible scenarios?  ... and in their despair vocalize the worst, but at the same time hope for the best ....

.....until it became obvious that the worst was what had happened.


Oh, the despair must have been terrible.  Who is to criticize them for falling to their knees as they did ... and wailing.

I suspect that you have never had a real trauma in your life concerning your children (if you have any).

If you had then I cant imagine that you would even consider criticizing them for the depth of their despair.

And to suggest, as you did in an  earlier post, that they put it on for the police is an insult to not only the Mccanns but to any right thinking person

Ah, classic Mccann supporter mantra.

'......And to suggest, as you did in an  earlier post, that they put it on for the police is an insult to not only the Mccanns but to any right thinking person ................'


Any right thinking person would never have repeatedly placed in danger their children.

Followed by .....

'I suspect that you have never had a real trauma in your life concerning your children (if you have any).'

I'm afraid going down that track Sadie, is neither ethical or logical.

I have not and would never considered letting my children putting my children in such a dangerous position.

You see Sadie, when you make the commitment to have children, you have to take responsibility for your actions.

All I see from the Mccanns and some of their supporters, is the blame game. i.e. blame everyone else, but the Mccanns, for what happened and the aftermath.

[sadie]

Indeed Xtina.

They claimed abduction too quickly, yet they were searching around the apartment and just outside, or so we are told.

Now we were also told initially, the apartment was locked, then a few days later it became unlocked, so Madeleine, if that was true could have walked out.

Then we have the protestation on the floor when the Police arrived, wailing, reminiscent of people praying.

Very little of the Mccanns accounts of events make sense.

The Mccanns believed it to be locked.

At arrival, they were given an apartment with windows shut and blinds down.  As Brits, unaccustomed to shutters, they believed them to be a form of lock, and the apartment to be locked at that moment in time, as would be the norm when moving into an empty apartment. 

During their stay, they never attempted to open the windows or shutters .... so to them, in their minds, they were lockede.


The front door on the otherhand was not dead locked (double locked) but it was latched and needed a key to open it .  It was single locked.

In the early days Gerry believed everything to be properly locked and it wasn't until he realised that the shutters could be lifted from outside that he realised his error.

Have you never made a simple mistake stephen?

[stephen25000]

The Mccanns believed it to be locked.

At arrival, they were given an apartment with windows shut and blinds down.  As Brits, unaccustomed to shutters, they believed them to be a form of lock, and the apartment to be locked at that moment in time, as would be the norm when moving into an empty apartment. 

During their stay, they never attempted to open the windows or shutters .... so to them, in their minds, they were lockede.


The front door on the otherhand was not dead locked (double locked) but it was latched and needed a key to open it .  It was single locked.

In the early days Gerry believed everything to be properly locked and it wasn't until he realised that the shutters could be lifted from outside that he realised his error.

Have you never made a simple mistake stephen?

A door is either locked or unlocked Sadie.

They locked the apartment in the daytime, or so we have been told.

Your excuses are simply irrelevant.

As to what they did when they arrived, you don't know what they did. You weren't there.

[slartibartfast]

Are you for real?     Do you not think that parents who find their child missing would not think that someone had taken her?    I would think it would be more or less the first thing they would think of especially in a state of shock.

 Should Kate and Gerry have stood at the door of 5a and say  'don't come in' you are being ridiculous,  obviously people are going to enter 5a when they hear a child is missing.

To be honest, no. Speaking as the grandparent of a nearly 4 year old, my first thought would be where have they got to now. If she really thought she had been taken, they should have been careful with the scene.

[Lace]

To be honest, no. Speaking as the grandparent of a nearly 4 year old, my first thought would be where have they got to now. If she really thought she had been taken, they should have been careful with the scene.

I expect 'where has she got to now'  may have been Kate's first thought if she hadn't seen an open window,  she still searched the apartment thought didn't she in case Madeleine was hiding somewhere,  if after searching the apartment and not finding your child would you not think she has been abducted?   I think Kate knew more or less straight away as soon as she saw the open window.

It would be very difficult to be careful with the scene,  though I believe I read that they stopped anyone going near the bed.   How do you stop people entering?

[sadie]

A door is either locked or unlocked Sadie.

They locked the apartment in the daytime, or so we have been told.

Your excuses are simply irrelevant.

As to what they did when they arrived, you don't know what they did. You weren't there.

The front door was locked.  It needed a key to open it.

The Mccanns naturally believed that the windows to an apartment they had just taken would be locked when the key was handed over.  They felt no need to check them because like most Brits they thought that closed heavy shutters meant they were locked

The patio door was unlocked but it was lit by the street lamp immediately across the road ... and it was closed, so looked locked.  The Mccanns and their friends were only 50 metres away, the bushes had just been hard cut back and they could clearly see the patio area, bathed in light.   They were very much like they were in their back garden ....and of course the Tapas area was the garden to their apartments

You are trying to make a lot out of nothing stephen ..... IMO.(of course)

We dont know about the parents bedroom, whether that was open or closed.  However the same situation with the shutters down (we believe) and being like locked for all intents and purposes, applied here too ... as in the childrens bedroom.

I would have expected the shutters to be unopenable from the outside, if to open on the inside I had to use a pulley type system ... and there was no such thing on the outside

[stephen25000]

The front door was locked.  It needed a key to open it.

The Mccanns naturally believed that the windows to an apartment they had just taken would be locked when the key was handed over.  They felt no need to check them because like most Brits they thought that closed heavy shutters meant they were locked

The patio door was unlocked but it was lit by the street lamp immediately across the road ... and it was closed, so looked locked.  The Mccanns and their friends were only 50 metres away, the bushes had just been hard cut back and they could clearly see the patio area, bathed in light.   They were very much like they were in their back garden ....and of course the Tapas area was the garden to their apartments

You are trying to make a lot out of nothing stephen ..... IMO.(of course)

We dont know about the parents bedroom, whether that was open or closed.  However the same situation with the shutters down (we believe) and being like locked for all intents and purposes, applied here too ... as in the childrens bedroom.

I would have expected the shutters to be unopenable from the outside, if to open on the inside I had to use a pulley type system ... and there was no such thing on the outside

You are making irrelevant excuses.

The locked the apartment during the daytime, or so they claim.

I was waiting for you to roll out yet again about 'being in the back garden'.

They weren't.

They were eating, drinking and socializing.

i.e. They were distracted.

[sadie]

Ah, classic Mccann supporter mantra.

'......And to suggest, as you did in an  earlier post, that they put it on for the police is an insult to not only the Mccanns but to any right thinking person ................'


Any right thinking person would never have repeatedly placed in danger their children.

Followed by .....

'I suspect that you have never had a real trauma in your life concerning your children (if you have any).'

I'm afraid going down that track Sadie, is neither ethical or logical.

I have not and would never considered letting my children putting my children in such a dangerous position.

You see Sadie, when you make the commitment to have children, you have to take responsibility for your actions.

All I see from the Mccanns and some of their supporters, is the blame game. i.e. blame everyone else, but the Mccanns, for what happened and the aftermath.

Well neither the PJ [except Amaral and Co] nor SY appear to blame the Mccanns for what happened.  They know that totally innocent misjudgements can happen. 
The Social Services in the UK see nothing to ring alarm bells about Kate and Gerrys parenting, but seems you know better than them.

I repeat
'......And to suggest, as you did in an  earlier post, that they put it on for the police is an insult to not only the Mccanns but to any right thinking person ................'

I think you may do well to search your soul on that one stephen...........

[Lace]

You are making irrelevant excuses.

The locked the apartment during the daytime, or so they claim.

I was waiting for you to roll out yet again about 'being in the back garden'.

They weren't.

They were eating, drinking and socializing.

i.e. They were distracted.

They did lock the apartment during the day,  who would you expect to be sneaking around at night?   A burglar?  An abductor?