Author Topic: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 41398 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2016, 07:27:47 AM »
I think if Madeleine were to turn up alive and well that Mr Amaral would become media shy overnight.

There is no doubt that former Portuguese police coordinator Gonçalo Amaral has formed a view as to what befell Madeleine McCann and has not been shy in speaking his mind on the disappearance whenever the opportunity arises.  He is entitled to hold a view and espouse a theory just as everyone else is entitled to, he is also free to impugn any person or persons based on the knowledge he himself has gleamed from the investigation but what he is not entitled to do is defame.

His theory is based on the knowledge he accrued as coordinator of the investigation prior to his removal from the case in August 2007 and allows him certain advantages over the rest of us. As coordinator he was at the centre of the investigation with all the detectives involved in the case answering directly to him. He was also central to the involvement of the English police and was extremely cognisant of their thoughts on the investigation.  Indeed, it was the involvement and actions of the English police which indirectly brought about his own demise and eventual removal from the investigation when he complained to the Press about said involvement.

Amaral might well have promoted the thesis that Madeleine died in apartment 5a but proving it is another matter.

We know his theory is based on his complete lack of understanding of the evidence

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2016, 07:34:00 AM »
The dictionary definition of coordinator is an easy one.

What are the actual responsibilities of a Portuguese police coordinator in a criminal investigation ... or if preferred ... what is the job description?

To evaluate Goncalo Amaral's role in Madeleine McCann's case it is necessary to know exactly the responsibilities assigned to him and the parameters he was expected to work within.
I doubt very much that his job description would shed any light on this.  From personal experience, I know that in turbulent times one's superiors in a large organisation do not give a fig about job descriptions.  The Madeleine case was not turbulent times.  It was trying to boldly go where no police force had gone before, and not achieving that.

It is hard to pick out a principal actor who came out with reputation intact in this case - perhaps Rebelo.
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2016, 07:36:45 AM »
As there's been no trial they still enjoy the presumption of innocence in law. It means they wouldn't have to prove their innocence if charged with an offence, the onus is on the prosecution to prove their guilt.

It's a fact that the McCanns came under suspicion and were therefore made arguidos. That clearly wasn't through the efforts of one man, that would be ridiculous.

The presumption of innocence is a basic human right.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2016, 07:46:11 AM »
As there's been no trial they still enjoy the presumption of innocence in law. It means they wouldn't have to prove their innocence if charged with an offence, the onus is on the prosecution to prove their guilt.

It's a fact that the McCanns came under suspicion and were therefore made arguidos. That clearly wasn't through the efforts of one man, that would be ridiculous.

The McCanns were constituted arguidos on the flimsiest evidence - no more than excuses and basically because the Policia Judiciaria could.

The uncorroborated imparting of a dream to Ricardo Paiva.  Well really!!


Madeleine McCann: mother's dream was 'turning point' in investigation, court hears
Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance began searching for her body after her mother, Kate, told detectives about a dream which suggested the toddler was dead, a court heard.

By Fiona Govan in Lisbon7:30AM GMT 13 Jan 2010

Police Inspector Ricardo Paiva, who acted as a liaison between the McCanns and Portuguese detectives in the days following their daughter’s disappearance, said the dream was a "turning point" in the investigation.
He said that Mrs McCann told him in a tearful telephone conversation in late July 2007 that she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that police should search for her there.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6977977/Madeleine-McCann-mothers-dream-was-turning-point-in-investigation-court-hears.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2016, 08:02:28 AM »
As there's been no trial they still enjoy the presumption of innocence in law. It means they wouldn't have to prove their innocence if charged with an offence, the onus is on the prosecution to prove their guilt.

It's a fact that the McCanns came under suspicion and were therefore made arguidos. That clearly wasn't through the efforts of one man, that would be ridiculous.

Apologists for Amaral often state that the vindictive process of making the McCanns arguidos was nothing at all to do with Amaral but was the responsibility of those higher up the chain of command.

In other words ... "a big boy done it and ran away".  Which just isn't true according to Alipio Ribeiro.


McCann suspect move 'too hasty'

The decision by detectives to make Madeleine McCann's parents suspects in her disappearance was too hasty, Portugal's top policeman has said.
Kate and Gerry McCann were named as formal suspects - or "arguidos" - four months after their daughter vanished from their holiday flat in the Algarve.

Alipio Ribeiro, head of the Policia Judiciaria, said another assessment should perhaps have taken place first.

Madeleine disappeared from the resort of Praia da Luz on the night of 3 May.

In an interview with Portugal's Radio Renascenca being broadcast on Sunday, Mr Ribeiro, national director of the PJ - Portugal's equivalent to the CID - stressed he did not give his officers orders about who should be named an arguido.

But he said there was a "certain hastiness" in making the McCanns suspects.

'Act humanely'

The couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "Now the national director of the Policia Judiciaria apparently accepts they should not have been made arguido, it follows that there is no case for Kate and Gerry to answer.

"As I have consistently said, Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine."

He urged Portuguese judicial authorities to "act humanely" by removing their arguido status as swiftly as possible.

"If the Portuguese police, under Mr Ribeiro, now do the only proper thing by eliminating Kate and Gerry from their inquiry, they and our own investigators can work together rapidly and effectively to find Madeleine and to bring those responsible for her abduction to justice."

Speaking from Lisbon, the BBC's Alison Roberts said: "It is not clear whether Mr Ribeiro means tactically it was wrong to make them arguidos at that point or that they should not have been made arguidos at all."

She stressed the full text of the interview has not been published yet, adding: "These comments are likely to stir up controversy, but would not carry legal weight.

Forensic tests

"Mr Ribeiro makes the point that he does not give orders to officers to declare arguido status and it would not be normal for him to step in and order them to remove it."

And she emphasised that arguido status was intended as a means of protection, giving those involved in investigations more rights than witnesses - for example over access to lawyers.

Mr Ribeiro has previously expressed caution about the case.

On 10 September - three days after Mr and Mrs McCann were named suspects - he suggested forensic tests had not been conclusive.

Mr and Mrs McCann have been marking the third birthday of their other two children, twins Sean and Amelie, with family friends at their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

In his latest internet blog entry, Mr McCann wrote: "We hope and pray that they will never have another birthday without Madeleine here."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7224347.stm
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2016, 08:13:18 AM »
Apologists for Amaral often state that the vindictive process of making the McCanns arguidos was nothing at all to do with Amaral but was the responsibility of those higher up the chain of command.

In other words ... "a big boy done it and ran away".  Which just isn't true according to Alipio Ribeiro.


McCann suspect move 'too hasty'

The decision by detectives to make Madeleine McCann's parents suspects in her disappearance was too hasty, Portugal's top policeman has said.
Kate and Gerry McCann were named as formal suspects - or "arguidos" - four months after their daughter vanished from their holiday flat in the Algarve.

Alipio Ribeiro, head of the Policia Judiciaria, said another assessment should perhaps have taken place first.

Madeleine disappeared from the resort of Praia da Luz on the night of 3 May.

In an interview with Portugal's Radio Renascenca being broadcast on Sunday, Mr Ribeiro, national director of the PJ - Portugal's equivalent to the CID - stressed he did not give his officers orders about who should be named an arguido.

But he said there was a "certain hastiness" in making the McCanns suspects.

'Act humanely'

The couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "Now the national director of the Policia Judiciaria apparently accepts they should not have been made arguido, it follows that there is no case for Kate and Gerry to answer.

"As I have consistently said, Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine."

He urged Portuguese judicial authorities to "act humanely" by removing their arguido status as swiftly as possible.

"If the Portuguese police, under Mr Ribeiro, now do the only proper thing by eliminating Kate and Gerry from their inquiry, they and our own investigators can work together rapidly and effectively to find Madeleine and to bring those responsible for her abduction to justice."

Speaking from Lisbon, the BBC's Alison Roberts said: "It is not clear whether Mr Ribeiro means tactically it was wrong to make them arguidos at that point or that they should not have been made arguidos at all."

She stressed the full text of the interview has not been published yet, adding: "These comments are likely to stir up controversy, but would not carry legal weight.

Forensic tests

"Mr Ribeiro makes the point that he does not give orders to officers to declare arguido status and it would not be normal for him to step in and order them to remove it."

And she emphasised that arguido status was intended as a means of protection, giving those involved in investigations more rights than witnesses - for example over access to lawyers.

Mr Ribeiro has previously expressed caution about the case.

On 10 September - three days after Mr and Mrs McCann were named suspects - he suggested forensic tests had not been conclusive.

Mr and Mrs McCann have been marking the third birthday of their other two children, twins Sean and Amelie, with family friends at their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

In his latest internet blog entry, Mr McCann wrote: "We hope and pray that they will never have another birthday without Madeleine here."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7224347.stm

Do you really think Brietta in your wildest imaginations, that any of your typed mantra will make a scrap of difference now.

The case is unsolved.

There is not a scrap of 'evidence' which can  point to abduction, which cannot be explained by the other scenarios.

To use a well worn idiom, you are flogging a dead horse.

The McCann's and associates statements were not consistent, but you  know that all too well.

Investigation of the parents was par for the course.

The SY investigation has gone nowhere, and thinking otherwise is merely a delusion.

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2016, 08:29:09 AM »
I doubt very much that his job description would shed any light on this.  From personal experience, I know that in turbulent times one's superiors in a large organisation do not give a fig about job descriptions.  The Madeleine case was not turbulent times.  It was trying to boldly go where no police force had gone before, and not achieving that.

It is hard to pick out a principal actor who came out with reputation intact in this case - perhaps Rebelo.

My main interest was in how close Amaral would have been to operational matters.

John pretty much covered that aspect for me in his post
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7732.msg361675#msg361675

I googled and came out here http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/superintendents/superintendents.php
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Benice

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2016, 08:32:09 AM »
Have you not read my previous post on this, senior police officers don't normally meet suspects.

Yes I did read your previous post to which I replied that if this was standard procedure  then why did Amaral  do his best both in his book and during TV interviews to conceal that 'normal' behaviour on his part from the public.

I defy anyone to point to a single word in his book which even remotely hints to his readers that he had never spoken with the McCanns and had never been present during their interviews.   

The opposite impression is given throughout -  so he must have considered it to be an important issue.

AIMHO



« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 10:35:14 AM by Benice »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2016, 08:32:55 AM »
The presumption of innocence is a basic human right.

I think you will find the police don't work like that. They suspect everyone connected to the crime and eliminate suspects one by one until one is left. If they can't eliminate all or prove one did it, then it is shelved...
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2016, 08:53:56 AM »
Do you really think Brietta in your wildest imaginations, that any of your typed mantra will make a scrap of difference now.

The case is unsolved.

There is not a scrap of 'evidence' which can  point to abduction, which cannot be explained by the other scenarios.

To use a well worn idiom, you are flogging a dead horse.

The McCann's and associates statements were not consistent, but you  know that all too well.

Investigation of the parents was par for the course.

The SY investigation has gone nowhere, and thinking otherwise is merely a delusion.

No-one disputes that ... "Investigation of the parents was par for the course." Normal police procedure in a case involving a missing child.

What is of interest is the character destroying imposition of arguido status on the parents of the missing child and what justification there may have been to take that action.
We do know that in the days following, changes to Portuguese law made it necessary for there to be supporting evidence before arguido status could be imposed ... in Madeleine's case it would have allowed more time for forensic evidence to be analysed appropriately.

I think it perfectly possible that arguido status was imposed ...
a)  to destroy the McCanns' reputations and weaken their position
b)  to elicit a confession in the knowledge there was no valid evidence which would have allowed charges to be laid
     against them

Without doubt the McCanns were made arguidos inappropriately and - as attested by Alipio Ribeiro, head of the Policia Judiciaria - too hastily.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2016, 09:03:12 AM »
No-one disputes that ... "Investigation of the parents was par for the course." Normal police procedure in a case involving a missing child.

What is of interest is the character destroying imposition of arguido status on the parents of the missing child and what justification there may have been to take that action.
We do know that in the days following, changes to Portuguese law made it necessary for there to be supporting evidence before arguido status could be imposed ... in Madeleine's case it would have allowed more time for forensic evidence to be analysed appropriately.

I think it perfectly possible that arguido status was imposed ...
a)  to destroy the McCanns' reputations and weaken their position
b)  to elicit a confession in the knowledge there was no valid evidence which would have allowed charges to be laid
     against them

Without doubt the McCanns were made arguidos inappropriately and - as attested by Alipio Ribeiro, head of the Policia Judiciaria - too hastily.

That is your opinion, and for very clear reasons why.

As to the Mccanns 'reputation', well they destroyed that themselves, and needed no one else to do that.

IMHO of course.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 09:07:53 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline Benice

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2016, 09:11:30 AM »
A detectives role is to investigate all possibilities and that is exactly what Amaral did.

I disagree that that is what Amaral did.       It's the role of a detective to follow all of the evidence and hopefully find the perpetrator, not to decide who the perpetrator is on day one and then set out to fit the evidence to them by cherry picking those facts from the evidence which are convenient -  and pretending that those facts which are not convenient  - don't exist.

Neither is it the role of detectives to first of all abuse and break the law of the land themselves, by poisoning the minds of the general public via a smear campaign in the media -  against the people you have decided are guilty.

You can make a case against anyone by using those unprofessional tactics.

AIMHO


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2016, 09:17:42 AM »
I disagree that that is what Amaral did.       It's the role of a detective to follow all of the evidence and hopefully find the perpetrator, not to decide who the perpetrator is on day one and then set out to fit the evidence to them by cherry picking those facts from the evidence which are convenient -  and pretending that those facts which are not convenient  - don't exist.

Neither is it the role of detectives to first of all abuse and break the law of the land themselves, by poisoning the minds of the general public via a smear campaign in the media -  against the people you have decided are guilty.

You can make a case against anyone by using those unprofessional tactics.

AIMHO

The original investigation found no evidence of abduction, or even a break-in to the apartment.

People did not need Amaral to suspect the Mccanns.

Smear campaign in the media ?

Really ??

For several years, the UK press has typed the Mccann story of 'abduction' and with nothing to back it up.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2016, 09:24:24 AM »
The presumption of innocence is a basic human right.

The right to the presumption of innocence (as part of the right to a fair trial) is enshrined in
Article 11 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2016, 10:05:04 AM »
A detectives role is to investigate all possibilities and that is exactly what Amaral did.
Is a detective's role to then write a book  and promote it vigorously in the media it to promulgate his theory, thereby impugning and accusing his victims / suspects in print and on air for the rest of his life?