They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[Alice Purjorick]

Garden;  a piece of land next to and belonging to a house, where flowers and other plants are grown, and often containing an area of grass.

They can be seen below, one next to each ground floor apartment, clearly belonging to them because they're enclosed by walls and they have individual gates.

I suppose the whole issue could be answered by who has title to the relevant bits of land.
Maybe SiL could check for us at the Portuguese equivalent of Land Registry.................

[sadie]

I suppose the whole issue could be answered by who has title to the relevant bits of land.
Maybe SiL could check for us at the Portuguese equivalent of Land Registry.................

With all due respect that aint important to a temporary tenant .. now is it Alice ?

[ShiningInLuz]

I suppose the whole issue could be answered by who has title to the relevant bits of land.
Maybe SiL could check for us at the Portuguese equivalent of Land Registry.................

Try thinking about what MW got for €1.85 million in 2007.  The last price I heard on 5A, now sold, was 1/4 million.

My working theory is they (MW) got the common bits, plus the rights to contracts with apartment owners.

And if you want me to try checking the land registry out with a bunch of Portuguese bureaucrats, I do hope you are going to pony up the euros.  It's going to take a lot of custard tarts.

[G-Unit]

Try thinking about what MW got for €1.85 million in 2007.  The last price I heard on 5A, now sold, was 1/4 million.

My working theory is they (MW) got the common bits, plus the rights to contracts with apartment owners.

And if you want me to try checking the land registry out with a bunch of Portuguese bureaucrats, I do hope you are going to pony up the euros.  It's going to take a lot of custard tarts.

They got;

Luz Oceano II - Exploração Turística Lda, this company being the owner of the administrative rights of the different factions that make up the resort.

Luz Oceano - Administração de Condominios SA which managed the assets

A rental contract being celebrated for ten years of 27 apartments owned by George Propiedades.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND.htm

The first two companies were owned by the three partners. Crossland doesn't say if they owned George Propiedades. It wasn't sold anyway, just a contract renting 27 apartments.

I would expect 'the assets' to include the Tapas complex, the reception building, the indoor swimming pool etc.  They didn't include any apartments, their car parks and gardens. The apartments were owned by George Popiedades, private owners who rented them out or private owners who lived in them, it appears.

Only those occupying apartments in Block 5 who had an arrangement with Green Trust SA to use OC facilities would be allowed to use the Tapas complex, so it wasn't connected to block 5 in the 'garden' sense. It was connected as a facility only to those guests who possessed entry cards.

[jassi]

I fancy this has been discussed before, but was there any formal entry mechanism to the Tapas part of the complex with these cards, or was it more a case of carry and produce if asked to do so?

[G-Unit]

I fancy this has been discussed before, but was there any formal entry mechanism to the Tapas part of the complex with these cards, or was it more a case of carry and produce if asked to do so?

The cards were issued to each guest, children included.

an access card which allows for access to all the services of the OC. This card too, is treated as is the keys (above) and is handed out one per person. Mark Warner hands these cards to its clients.

These access cards are given to each client (including babies and children), and besides permitting access to services offered by the Ocean Club, is equally used for buying drinks and food.
Later, these charges are added to the respective apartment.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RITA_SILVA.htm

The Tapas reception seems only to have been 'manned' until 7pm, however.

Her working hours were between 09H00 and 19H00, and she was never present when the group had dinner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ELISA.htm

[Alice Purjorick]

Try thinking about what MW got for €1.85 million in 2007.  The last price I heard on 5A, now sold, was 1/4 million.

My working theory is they (MW) got the common bits, plus the rights to contracts with apartment owners.

And if you want me to try checking the land registry out with a bunch of Portuguese bureaucrats, I do hope you are going to pony up the euros.  It's going to take a lot of custard tarts.

Blimey! over here we can check for a fiver on line using that tinternet and have an almost instant answer.

[Alice Purjorick]

With all due respect that aint important to a temporary tenant .. now is it Alice ?

Did I say it was?
But knowing who owns the land might put an end to alot of guesswork that is going on here.

[ShiningInLuz]

I fancy this has been discussed before, but was there any formal entry mechanism to the Tapas part of the complex with these cards, or was it more a case of carry and produce if asked to do so?

Oddly enough I read this after I had just returned from peering at the Tapas reception area on my trip to the supermarket.

I was interested in the idea that the club attended by Amelie and Sean was above this, given that this reception is a 1-storey building.

Anyway, I will stack up a squiz at the locks on my next supermarket trip.

[G-Unit]

Oddly enough I read this after I had just returned from peering at the Tapas reception area on my trip to the supermarket.

I was interested in the idea that the club attended by Amelie and Sean was above this, given that this reception is a 1-storey building.

Anyway, I will stack up a squiz at the locks on my next supermarket trip.

Weren't the childcare facilities in the building next the the tennis courts with the tent shaped roof? The Tapas receptionist seems to think all three children were looked after in the Tapas complexl no mention of nannies bringing them to high tea holding onto a snake, no mention of bringing just the twins to the creche, no mention of taking just Madeleine anywhere else;

The deponent clarifies that she worked at the reception of the Garden Club on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, including lunch time. She recalls seeing the couple and their three children leaving the premises, because they had to go through the reception area to do this. They went in the direction of the apartment where the deponent presumes they had lunch. She thinks that they always left between 12H30 and 13HOO.---Around 14H00 the couple returned; indeed it was what almost everyone having children did, and delivered the three children to the care of the nannies. She does not know if the three were together, or if they were separated due to the difference in their ages.

The deponent recalls that the parents then spent most of the time at the Garden Club, at activities such as tennis, and although they were part of a group of four couples (the reservation was always made for 9 adults), they only got together at dinner time.

The couple only left the Garden Club after the children had finished their dinner, which was served by the nannies inside this facility, and which began around 17H00/18H00. It was afterwards that they again left with the children for their respective apartments.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ELISA.htm

[Lace]

It felt like dining in a garden.   They were on holiday, in an holiday complex,  children friendly,  everyone had been friendly and happy all week.   They were in a holiday atmosphere.   It seems that the fact that the complex also held houses which were not holiday lets,  has been overlooked when holidaying in a lovely peaceful child friendly complex.    Just as people in tents or caravans leave their children alone to have a B-B-Q they are on holiday and once this relaxing feeling takes over their usual on guard feeling they have when living in their usual surroundings goes out of the window.   They were very close to the apartment,  it took a minute or so to get to it,  just as people have a street party and leave children in the house asleep to carry on partying into the evening.

This sort of behaviour was different to how the McCann's behaved at home,  at home they had a baby sitter when they went out.   If they were the type to not look after their children properly, then why have a baby sitter when at home,  why not just nip down to the pub for a drink and leave the children alone?

[Robittybob1]

It felt like dining in a garden.  .....snip ...
This sort of behaviour was different to how the McCann's behaved at home,  at home they had a baby sitter when they went out.   If they were the type to not look after their children properly, then why have a baby sitter when at home,  why not just nip down to the pub for a drink and leave the children alone?

You are forgetting about needing to return home every half hour to listen to the kids.

[Alice Purjorick]

You are forgetting about needing to return home every half hour to listen to the kids.

Yeah not to mention having to leave the confines of the "resort" and walk up a public thoroughfare to reach the accommodation.

[Robittybob1]

Yeah not to mention having to leave the confines of the "resort" and walk up a public thoroughfare to reach the accommodation.

I'm referring to Lace's reference "why not just nip down to the pub for a drink and leave the children alone?" not to what was happening in PDL.

[G-Unit]

It felt like dining in a garden.   They were on holiday, in an holiday complex,  children friendly,  everyone had been friendly and happy all week.   They were in a holiday atmosphere.   It seems that the fact that the complex also held houses which were not holiday lets,  has been overlooked when holidaying in a lovely peaceful child friendly complex.    Just as people in tents or caravans leave their children alone to have a B-B-Q they are on holiday and once this relaxing feeling takes over their usual on guard feeling they have when living in their usual surroundings goes out of the window.   They were very close to the apartment,  it took a minute or so to get to it,  just as people have a street party and leave children in the house asleep to carry on partying into the evening.

This sort of behaviour was different to how the McCann's behaved at home,  at home they had a baby sitter when they went out.   If they were the type to not look after their children properly, then why have a baby sitter when at home,  why not just nip down to the pub for a drink and leave the children alone?

It felt like dining in a garden? But it wasn't a garden and they knew that; it was a facility with a restaurant, a bar, two swimming pools and a playground and it was full of strangers.

Were they happy and relaxed? They were certainly busy but it was cold, the kids didn't enjoy the one attempt at a family outing, one couple seemed to be isolated; breakfasting alone, lunching alone, being left out of the beach trip, sleeping apart due to boorish behaviour, worrying about the unlocked door. Not very relaxing.

Were the evenings better? Well, not exactly relaxing either. It was too cold so they needed all their warmest clothes and they had to keep going backwards and forwards to check the kids.

All in all it sounds anything but relaxing imo.

PS How do you know they always had a baby sitter at home? Because they said so?