Author Topic: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?  (Read 56490 times)

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Offline misty

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #345 on: December 01, 2016, 10:42:41 PM »
Portugal's leading child psychologist, Luis Vilas Boas, who runs a refuge for abused children, insists that few paedophiles operate in the country. "There is no paedophile problem in Portugal," he says.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551438/The-burden-of-loss.html

Did no one mention anything at all about Casa Pia to him?

Seems leading cops and leading child psychologists in Portugal ... sometimes fail to show any evidence of being aware of what is going on around them.

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/child-sex-offender-register-approved/35748

A total of 5,739 names are included in Portugal’s new child sex offenders register, which next week will turn a year old.

Those on the list face seeing their name there for the next 20 years, the Ministry of Justice told Lusa news agency.

In August, the register was slammed by Marco Paulino, a forensic psychologist who told Jornal de Notícias that it “hasn’t really helped anyone on the field” and may even lead police and parents to let their guard down regarding a potential child abuser if their name is not on the list.

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #346 on: December 01, 2016, 10:42:49 PM »
that's an inappropriately flippant comment IMO.

Just my lighthearted manner.
If you prefer we can do it this way picking up on other's methodologies:
OI CHIEF THAT'S WELL OUT OF ORDER IT'S OFF BLEEDIN' TOPIC.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 10:47:02 PM by Alice Purjorick »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #347 on: December 01, 2016, 10:44:38 PM »
there is proof...but first you would need to understand what term proof means

You do say the funniest of things sometimes.
Why not answer the question?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline carlymichelle

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #348 on: December 01, 2016, 10:58:52 PM »
You do say the funniest of things sometimes.
Why not answer the question?

its   callled  denial   @)(++(*

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #349 on: December 01, 2016, 11:02:48 PM »
Portugal's leading child psychologist, Luis Vilas Boas, who runs a refuge for abused children, insists that few paedophiles operate in the country. "There is no paedophile problem in Portugal," he says.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551438/The-burden-of-loss.html

Did no one mention anything at all about Casa Pia to him?

Seems leading cops and leading child psychologists in Portugal ... sometimes fail to show any evidence of being aware of what is going on around them.
It has probably been discussed before.  But it is the first time I have seen it with a date on it.

Amelie reported on 13 May 2007, the day after Madeleine's 4th birthday, 10 days after she disappeared.  Maddie's jammies.
What's up, old man?

Offline sadie

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #350 on: December 01, 2016, 11:44:26 PM »
That is your belief, but without facts to back it up, it remains a fairy story.
If you are still unable to measure distances on GE then that is tuff titty.  Time you learned.

I have gone over the method at least twice over the years that you have been here.  Others have taken the trouble to learn.  Why cant you?

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #351 on: December 02, 2016, 12:05:42 AM »
You say millions.

Then provide cites to back it up please.
Everyone who has children takes certain risks with their safety every day to a greater or lesser degree.  I have given examples on this thread of the risks taken by my parents with me and the risk I take with my kids' safety - we are not an unusual family, therefore it stands to reason that risk-taking exists on a daily basis for most people, whether it is letting kids go to the park to play by themselves, having a pet dog in the house with a child, buying a trampoline, installing a swimming pool, doing some gardening while the three year old plays in his bedroom, packing them off to boarding school aged 7 etc etc etc.  Most people = millions.  If you want millions of cites you may need to give me a few decades to compile them.  Before you start I am not claiming that millions of people leave their kids unattended to go to dinner 50 metres away, nor that it is sensible behaviour, but undoubtedly the McCanns were not the first to take such risks.  We know they did it, we know it was risky, they "gambled and lost" (thanks Alice) how many more times does this issue need to be discussed?  Why does it pose such enduring fascination to some and why do McCann critics seem solely fixated on the McCanns' "neglect" to the exclusion of anyone else's?  Rhetorical questions, no need to explain :-)

Offline sadie

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #352 on: December 02, 2016, 12:10:15 AM »
Was there a 50m garden in Casa Pia they all dined in then?.............. ?{)(**
THey didn't need that at Casa pia.

Why Portugal is a haven for paedophiles - the disturbing backcloth to the Madeleine case
By ANDREW MALONE and VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 11:06 20 October 2007



A ferrari engine makes a deep, distinctive sound.
When the children at Portugal's most famous orphanage heard the sports car roaring down the driveway, fear swept through the dormitories.

The noise could mean only one thing: the man known as The Doctor was coming to call.

Yet this medical practitioner had no intention of adhering to the ancient Hippocratic Oath.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/madeleine1PA2405_468x550.jpg



Madeleine McCann in hat
Instead, arriving at Casa Pia (House of the Pious), a 17th century Lisbon orphanage where more than 4,000 children are cared for each year behind high stone walls, the doctor would summon selected boys and girls from their beds for examinations one night each week.

Where possible, he chose deaf-mutes.

After checking that the children were not suffering from any sexual infections, the doctor was joined by the orphanage caretaker, known as Bibi, who ushered the unfortunate children outside to a waiting van.

With the doctor following in his red Ferrari, Bibi drove the van to the prestigious homes of some of the leading members of Lisbon society - ranging from Portuguese government ministers and high-ranking diplomats, to famous television stars and members of the judiciary.

Scroll down for more...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/ZMcCannsES_468x548.jpg



McCann family
There, the children were repeatedly sexually abused. Some were allegedly drugged to make them compliant; others were plied with alcohol.

This continued for years. Assaults were filmed; pictures of one attack were subsequently found at the home of a suspected paedophile in Paris.

According to medical records, the victims' injuries were horrific - and consistent with serious sexual assault and rape. In witness statements, many were able to describe in minute detail the homes where they were taken and identifying marks on the bodies of their abusers.

The existence of this so-called "magic circle" of the Portuguese establishment, allegedly involved in an international paedophile ring using boys and girls from Casa Pia, was last week likened to an earthquake waiting to shake Portugal to its foundations.

New allegations about the scale of the network will be put before the country's highest court within the next few weeks.

Amid rumours of links to other paedophile gangs across Europe and the U.S., international experts on child sex crimes and murders are expected to be in court when the case re-opens, four years after a group of victims broke a silence lasting more than 30 years.

But what relevance does this have to the disappearance 170 days ago of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, about 280km from Lisbon?

And what does it mean for Kate and Gerry McCann, who have not only had to cope with losing their child, but have also been subjects of a vicious campaign in the Portuguese press to smear them?

It is crucial for two reasons; first because it proves what international crime agencies have long suspected: that Portugal has become a magnet for predatory paedophiles from around the world, using the country's lax laws and preying on the high numbers of poor, abandoned children.

And second, because Paulo Rebelo, an urbane, methodical detective who led the Casa Pia paedophile inquiry, was last night finishing his first week as the new chief of the investigation into the disappearance of the British child.

Rebelo has replaced Goncalo Amaral, the "oafish" local police chief out of his depth in a case that has captured unprecedented world attention, with millions fascinated by the story of the girl snatched from her bed on holiday while her parents ate with friends 200 yards away.

The sight of the sweaty, corpulent Amaral in restaurants and cafes near the Portimao police headquarters had become commonplace since Madeleine disappeared.

While the McCanns were warned repeatedly they faced jail for speaking about the case, he was been overheard, during his daily three-hour lunches of wine and shellfish, accusing the couple of killing their daughter.

In one conversation with Portugal's ex-Formula One racing driver Pedro Lamy, Amaral revealed he was convinced the McCanns drugged their daughter and accidentally killed her. "The police case is we are sure the parents killed Madeleine. They are both doctors and know about drugs.

"We are confident in our case," he said.

In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.

According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.

At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".

In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.

In a Lisbon café, an associate of Rebelo told the Mail: "The Casa Pia case had a deep affect on Paulo. You come across things that are appalling and cruel. But you get a feeling that there are some seriously bad people in the world, and some of them are here. He does not rule anything out."

So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.

But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.

The latest?

That bodily fluids from Madeleine's corpse were found in the boot of the couple's hire care and that "background checks" were to be carried out on Gerry McCann's laptop. And then the police "sources" claimed that Kate killed Madeleine without telling Gerry, and that the body was "refrigerated" before being dumped up to 25 days later.

His career in tatters and now back on desk duties in Faro, Amaral faces a criminal hearing in the case of another missing child, Joana Cipriano, after being accused of concealing evidence that the girl's mother was tortured into confessing to her murder.

Amaral and his colleagues face countless unanswered questions about mistakes in the original police investigation into Maddie's disappearance, such as failing to ensure the McCanns' apartment was sealed off for forensics. (This did not happen until the next day, by which time the McCanns, their friends, resort staff and detectives had traipsed through, destroying potentially vital evidence.)

They also failed to seal off the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort. No roadblocks were set up and police on the Spanish border - two hours' drive away - were not alerted for 12 hours. Staff were only quizzed 60 hours later. And the CCTV footage from a busy main road was never studied. The list of mistakes goes on.

While the shift in the investigation may ease the intolerable pressure on the McCanns, it will do little to console them.

As well as growing fears that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile ring, they can have little hope of justice when leading Portuguese figures are allegedly involved in covering-up their own child sex scandal.

Both cases - the two highestprofile criminal investigations in the country since the end of the Portuguese military dictatorship in 1974 - have been riven by allegations of compromised police officers, high-level interference and vicious, virulent attacks on key witnesses.

Pedro Namora, a former Casa Pia orphan who witnessed 11 rapes on fellow orphans, during which they were tied to their beds, sympathises with the McCanns. He believes elements in the force have conspired to suppress both scandals, fearing damage to the country's reputation.

"Portugal is a paedophiles' paradise," said Mr Namora, now a lawyer campaigning on behalf of the Casa Pia victims. "If all the names come out, this will be an earthquake in Portugal. There is a massive, sophisticated network at play here - stretching from the government to the judiciary and the police.

"The network is enormous and extremely powerful. There are magistrates, ambassadors, police, politicians - all have procured children from Casa Pia. It is extremely difficult to break this down. These people cover for each other, because if one is arrested, they all are arrested. They don't want anyone to know."

Now 44, Mr Namora watched as friends sank into alcoholism, drug addiction and death after their traumatic childhood experiences at Casa Pia. "I was the only one who made it," he said. "What could I do? I couldn't keep silent."

He has received death threats and warnings about what will happen to his own children, after taking up the case when an orphan called "Joel" approached him, saying prominent paedophiles were using Casa Pia as a "supermarket for children".

Mr Namora has been threatened after fighting on behalf of the abused children he grew up with.

After being telephoned by a stranger offering to pay off his mortgage, he was told the exact movements of his own three children, and warned that they and their father would come to a grisly end unless he shut up.

An open, warm man, Mr Namora makes an unlikely conspiracytheorist-But he believes the case, which he brought to light in 2003, will underscore Portugal's growing attraction for paedophiles, which has seen six children disappear in recent years.

One reason for this attraction is that the law was quietly relaxed last year, ahead of the forthcoming trial, meaning that repeat offences against the same child would merit only a single charge - and a lesser sentence.

In echoes of the McCanns' ordeal, the initial investigation was badly handled when allegations of abuse were first made at Casa Pia in 1982. Carlos Silvino, the man known as Bibi, was linked to rapes and assaults, but police "lost" pictures showing prominent Lisbon politicians with him and the children.

He was only charged after dozens of children came forward in 2003. They also accused Jorge Ritto, a former Portuguese ambassador, of child abuse. Ritto, it transpired, had also once been sent home in disgrace from a posting in Germany after an incident involving a young boy in a park.

The conspiracy did not end there. Teresa Costa Macedo, a former secretary of state for the family, has revealed that she knew about the attacks in the early Eighties - and that she had alerted General Antonio Ramalho Eanes, the then Portuguese president, about the allegations.

Mrs Costa Macedo, who remained silent for two decades after being warned she would be killed if she spoke, now says that the caretaker "was just one element in a huge paedophile network that involved important people in our country. It wasn't just him [the caretaker]. He was a procurer of children for well-known people who range from diplomats and politicians to people linked to the media".

While still a government minister, Costa Macedo handed police "photographs, an account of the methods used to spirit children out of the orphanage and testimonies of a number of children". Many of the photographs were found at ex-ambassador Jorge Ritto's house. Police reportedly found four children locked up who had been missing from Casa Pia.

Under armed guard at a safe house last week, Bibi could count himself a lucky man. He originally faced allegations that he had sexually assaulted more than 600 children. That has since been reduced to 30. Silvino has hinted at the high-level of the conspiracy, saying: "They can't touch me - there are too many people involved."

Following Ritto's arrest, the police questioned Carloz Cruz, known as Portugal's "Mr Television", and Joao Diniz, a high- society doctor and driver of the red Ferrari. The network allegedly went further. Paulo Pedroso, a government minister, was arrested and quizzed about 15 cases of child sexual abuse.

Amid allegations that paedophile networks have become endemic in Portugal - the European police force Interpol has named the country as one of the worst offenders in Europe - there are fears that the Casa Pia scandal will come to eclipse Belgium's notorious Marc Dutroux case, in which the arrest of a notorious paedophile and child murderer revealed a sordid picture of judicial and political corruption.

Of course, the Casa Pia case may have no direct link to the disappearance of Madeleine, but the culture in which such a serious child abuse network was allowed to operate is the same culture that pervades the whole of Portugal. Was it this attitude that led to the bungled initial investigation in the McCann case?

Perhaps the appointment of the man who exposed the Casa Pia scandal will give the parents of Maddie hope that a proper investigation will now discover the truth.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488654/Why-Portugal-haven-paedophiles--disturbing-backcloth-Madeleine-case.html#ixzz4RdNIKFtr
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Offline John

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #353 on: December 02, 2016, 01:42:38 AM »

they were still drinking..wine.....and as i said ......they may as well have been 50 mile away...they saw nothing ...zilch

A good point.  A child can choke on their vomit so being 50 metres away might as well have been 50 miles.  No wonder Mrs Healey reportedly wanted to slap someones face when she heard what they had done! 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #354 on: December 02, 2016, 01:55:25 AM »
The patio area was illuminated by the street lamp opposite ... and because of this any movement would likely have been seen by Mccann friends.

Even Amaral stated that no-one would go in that way with the parents and group so overlooking it..





Photo of apartment 5a taken from across the street shortly after Madeleine dispappeared.  Although the outside of the building was well illuminated, the upper part of the steps and some of the patio area were still in shadow.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:02:02 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #355 on: December 02, 2016, 02:08:51 AM »




Photo of apartment 5a taken from across the street shortly after Madeleine dispappeared.  Although the outside of the building was well illuminated, the upper part of the steps and some of the patio area were still in shadow.
Actually, this photo gives wealth of information, so much so that one could probably base an entire thread round it.

Let's kick off with Mrs Fenn was probably home at the time, unless she was in the habit of leaving her lights on when she went out.
What's up, old man?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #356 on: December 02, 2016, 02:18:06 AM »




Photo of apartment 5a taken from across the street shortly after Madeleine dispappeared.  Although the outside of the building was well illuminated, the upper part of the steps and some of the patio area were still in shadow.
John do you know what date (year) these photos were taken?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #357 on: December 02, 2016, 02:23:28 AM »
Actually, this photo gives wealth of information, so much so that one could probably base an entire thread round it.

Let's kick off with Mrs Fenn was probably home at the time, unless she was in the habit of leaving her lights on when she went out.

Mrs Fenn had suffered a break-in just a few weeks prior to Madeleine's disappearance. Isn't leaving a light on when you leave your property empty during the evening a big deterrent to a prospective intruder?
We know Mrs Fenn was definitely at home around 10,30 due to the balcony conversation.
It struck me as odd that, despite Mrs Fenn's niece, CT, providing a statement almost immediately to the UK police about the strange event she witnessed, no-one at the Portuguese end bothered to follow up matters with Mrs Fenn immediately.

Offline John

Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #358 on: December 02, 2016, 02:29:23 AM »
John do you know what date (year) these photos were taken?

The top photo was May 2007.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?
« Reply #359 on: December 02, 2016, 04:51:59 AM »
If you are still unable to measure distances on GE then that is tuff titty.  Time you learned.

I have gone over the method at least twice over the years that you have been here.  Others have taken the trouble to learn.  Why cant you?

I am quite aware of the distance involved.

Your constant repetition of it being in the back garden is beyond peurile and is quite frankly appalling. The McCann's and others had left their children alone , with occasional and short checks. It beggars belief and logic that is was a safe thing to do.