Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[John]

Two nights before Madeleine vanished, Mrs Fenn heard a long period of crying.  However, we still do not know from whence that crying came.   Had it involved Madeleine or the twins, why didn't Madeleine mention it to her Mum and Dad, as she did after some crying the following night ?   

We know that the twins did cry on the Wednesday but it seems that was only minor because no report by Mrs Fenn; a woman who seemed very worried by crying.


The couple who supposedly entered 5A to console any child crying do not IMO carry any validity.  No names divulged, nor any names from the people who were supposed to know the couple going in.   IMHO they were just another myth ... a stick to beat the Mccanns with

I dont believe anyone would hear crying from 5A, unless they went up close to the childrens window.  No-one had reason for going there, nor had any business going there ...  unless like Matt, they were putting their ear against the window to check for crying.


So, we dont know who cried on the Tuesday, maybe kids from another family? 
Furthermore, we dont know how long or hard the twins cried on Wednesday ?  But no complaints from Mrs Fenn.



So I agree with you, John, up to a point ... and that point is that it seems there was real pattern of crying that we know about.

However, i do wonder if the twins along with Madeleine were drugged in some way.  Madeleine more deeply drugged perhaps?


And I wonder this because Madeleine was sooo tired after her tea that she had to be carried home.   Did someone drop something in her (and the twins) hot chocolate or sandwich?

The children were too tired to go out for their normal play with the other children that evening.   And I bet that play time on the slide etc., with friends, was the highlight of their day.

Can I remind that Mrs Fenn was persuaded to go visit her friend on the Wed night as a consequence of the disturbance which lasted for over an hour the previous evening. So if two strangers did intervene on the Wed night they were long gone before Gerry returned early without Kate.  According to Kate herself, Madeleine supposedly told her on the Wed that she and Sean cried.

We will never know if the children were sedated to keep them quiet due to the failings to have them tested at the time.

[Alice Purjorick]

If the McCanns were doing regular checks on their children throughout the week, as they claim, how did they manage to miss these crying episodes?

Just bad luck I guess.
It would suggest the crying episodes were non existent, were brief or the frequency of checks was different from that of the third night or that recollected.

[slartibartfast]

Cite please.

From her statement.

She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.

[slartibartfast]

From Truth of the Lie

Friday May 4th

This morning I am worried; something isn’t right in the account of the events:

Amaral then writes that they must gather as much i formation about the parents as possible such as whether either suffered from depression.  So he was supicious from the off it would seem.  Perhaps you could give a cite for thr police believing the parents version of events initially.

Not exactly suspected the parents from the start.

[Alfie]

Not exactly suspected the parents from the start.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?  Why, if you didn't suspect the parents from the start in a case of suspected stranger abduction, would you want to know their medical history including whether either suffered from depression, and why would you be concerned about the their accounts of that evening? 

[John]

Cite please.

Come on Sadie, this is basic stuff!   

[faithlilly]

I'm trying to understand what angle you are coming at this from.  It seemed your initial argument was that the McCanns never raised their suspicions about sedation with th police at all, which, had they been in the habit of regularly sedating their own children might have been understandable.  However the fact is we know that only two days after Madeleine went missing they were wanting answers from the PJ about the possibility that their children had been sedated, which would be a very odd thing to draw attention to if they were guilty of regularly sedating their kids.  So can you please tell me what you are trying to suggest here?

No my point was that the McCanns ( as my cite shows the 'we' spoken about by Kate certainly wasn't Gerry) didn't raise their concerns ON THE NIGHT when the twins may have been in real danger. Further when they did bring the subject up with the FLOs several days later in that conversation there was no request for further action. Why did they bring the subject up at all? A fishing trip perhaps?

[misty]

As has been pointed out to you several times now Misty the police officers could have had no idea whether this state of deep sleep was normal or not, the McCanns did. Are you really trying to say that if the police officers were inept enough not to summon help for the twins this lets her parents off the hook?

People want to put the parents on the hook because they were doctors.
There was no evidence in the Irish case that the child had been sedated yet the police reacted on sight of Calpol, despite no visible outward injuries.
Amaral made a big point about Calpol in TTotL. The CSI team must have found some in 5a. Why weren't they immediately on the ball?

[Robittybob1]

But they did have the child checked and that's the point.

This is from SB first statement

"At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.
She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. "

Are you really asking us to believe that SB would remember the above but fail to recall being asked to tell the police that Kate believed her children may have been sedated and could be in danger? Really ?

You haven't considered her conflict of interest that she finds herself in. 

[Angelo222]

People want to put the parents on the hook because they were doctors.
There was no evidence in the Irish case that the child had been sedated yet the police reacted on sight of Calpol, despite no visible outward injuries.
Amaral made a big point about Calpol in TTotL. The CSI team must have found some in 5a. Why weren't they immediately on the ball?

They are already on the hook as you put it by their own actions before Maddie disappeared and afterwards by employing some very shady individuals.

[faithlilly]

People want to put the parents on the hook because they were doctors.
There was no evidence in the Irish case that the child had been sedated yet the police reacted on sight of Calpol, despite no visible outward injuries.
Amaral made a big point about Calpol in TTotL. The CSI team must have found some in 5a. Why weren't they immediately on the ball?

That's simply nonsense misty. The McCanns are not on the hook because they are doctors but because they themselves admit that they thought their  twins were in an unresponsive state due to some unknown narcotic yet did nothing.

[Robittybob1]

Where has she proved that?

She has proved they asked about whether any drug had been used in the disappearance on the 5th of May. She has not proved they voiced their concerns about the twins being sedated either then or on the night of the third. In fact Gerry admits as much in his arguidos interview


"-- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later."

Only 2 days later when toxicological tests could still be done successfully.  Is it the English Police at fault then not passing this concern on immediately to the PJ?

[Robittybob1]

As has been pointed out to you several times now Misty the police officers could have had no idea whether this state of deep sleep was normal or not, the McCanns did. Are you really trying to say that if the police officers were inept enough not to summon help for the twins this lets her parents off the hook?

Either the GNR or the PJ and the English Police Officers after their meeting on the 5th or all of them let the McCanns down.

[Robittybob1]

It was Gerry who left early from the Tapas on Wednesday.  When Kate arrived back he was already snoring so she slept in the spare bed in the kids room.

[Robittybob1]

Not exactly suspected the parents from the start.

What is the start for you then?  The 4th is just the next day, that sounds like the start to me.