Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Alfie]

From elsewhere but makes the point succinctly.

'for a range of conditions. It is a safe drug when used as prescribed but extremely dangerous in overdose. It is especially dangerous in children. (I am not going to name the class of drug - those in the know will probably recognise it, and I have no wish to give ideas to the cerebrally challenged element)

One symptom of overdose in children is unconsciousness or extreme drowsiness. This can occur quite soon after ingestion. During this time, the child may breathe normally.

However, some of the symptoms emerge during the first six hours and may not be present on initial presentation. These may include CNS disturbances, seizures and massive cardiac problems. As soon as overdose with this class of drugs is suspected, it is vitally important to begin cardiac monitoring so that any changes can be spotted.

SNIP

I don't expect everyone to understand how an ECG works, but I am sure people have seen them and seen the printouts. The best way to think of the heart is that it works a little like a 4-stroke engine. The timing with which different parts of the heart muscle contract and relax is vital - the ECG printout basically allows the medical team to see that it is working properly. None of that can be deduced from taking a pulse. If it could, we wouldn't have any need for ECG machines.

These changes may mean that drugs may need to be given to restore normal rhythm, or the heart shocked back into rhythm. The patient may stop breathing and require intubation and ventilation. Cardiac monitoring should be continued for at least 8 hours in all cases, and for 24 hours after a normal rhythm is established in patients with symptoms.

Many children die of overdose of prescription medication.

cite? 
And of course Gerry was not just a doctor but a heart specialist, and Kate a one-time anaethetist but I'm sure neither would have been able to tell from monitoring them that their kids were on the verge of imminent death.    &%+((£

[Lace]

From elsewhere but makes the point succinctly.

'for a range of conditions. It is a safe drug when used as prescribed but extremely dangerous in overdose. It is especially dangerous in children. (I am not going to name the class of drug - those in the know will probably recognise it, and I have no wish to give ideas to the cerebrally challenged element)

One symptom of overdose in children is unconsciousness or extreme drowsiness. This can occur quite soon after ingestion. During this time, the child may breathe normally.

However, some of the symptoms emerge during the first six hours and may not be present on initial presentation. These may include CNS disturbances, seizures and massive cardiac problems. As soon as overdose with this class of drugs is suspected, it is vitally important to begin cardiac monitoring so that any changes can be spotted.

SNIP

I don't expect everyone to understand how an ECG works, but I am sure people have seen them and seen the printouts. The best way to think of the heart is that it works a little like a 4-stroke engine. The timing with which different parts of the heart muscle contract and relax is vital - the ECG printout basically allows the medical team to see that it is working properly. None of that can be deduced from taking a pulse. If it could, we wouldn't have any need for ECG machines.

These changes may mean that drugs may need to be given to restore normal rhythm, or the heart shocked back into rhythm. The patient may stop breathing and require intubation and ventilation. Cardiac monitoring should be continued for at least 8 hours in all cases, and for 24 hours after a normal rhythm is established in patients with symptoms.

Many children die of overdose of prescription medication.

Are you honestly suggesting that the parents of Madeleine and the twins who happen to both be Dr.s not only give their children sedatives but over dosed on them?   Come on,   why the hell even bother to check on the children every half hour if they had given them enough sedative to knock them out for the night.

[sadie]

From elsewhere but makes the point succinctly.

'for a range of conditions. It is a safe drug when used as prescribed but extremely dangerous in overdose. It is especially dangerous in children. (I am not going to name the class of drug - those in the know will probably recognise it, and I have no wish to give ideas to the cerebrally challenged element)

One symptom of overdose in children is unconsciousness or extreme drowsiness. This can occur quite soon after ingestion. During this time, the child may breathe normally.

However, some of the symptoms emerge during the first six hours and may not be present on initial presentation. These may include CNS disturbances, seizures and massive cardiac problems. As soon as overdose with this class of drugs is suspected, it is vitally important to begin cardiac monitoring so that any changes can be spotted.

SNIP

I don't expect everyone to understand how an ECG works, but I am sure people have seen them and seen the printouts. The best way to think of the heart is that it works a little like a 4-stroke engine. The timing with which different parts of the heart muscle contract and relax is vital - the ECG printout basically allows the medical team to see that it is working properly. None of that can be deduced from taking a pulse. If it could, we wouldn't have any need for ECG machines.

These changes may mean that drugs may need to be given to restore normal rhythm, or the heart shocked back into rhythm. The patient may stop breathing and require intubation and ventilation. Cardiac monitoring should be continued for at least 8 hours in all cases, and for 24 hours after a normal rhythm is established in patients with symptoms.

Many children die of overdose of prescription medication.

Are you suggesting the twins were about to have a heart attack ?

My father wasn't a doctor, but he always took some basic medical stuff away with him when we went on holiday as kids.  Such things as a thermometer, aspirin, Glycerin and rose water etc.etc.   Maybe the group of doctors had a fairly comprehensive mini pharmacy amongst them ?

Gerry is a heart specialist.  His expertise at noticing the lead up symptoms of a heart attack would be equal to the best available.


I think you are barking up the wrong tree Faith.  Soz.

[Alfie]

Are you honestly suggesting that the parents of Madeleine and the twins who happen to both be Dr.s not only give their children sedatives but over dosed on them?   Come on,   why the hell even bother to check on the children every half hour if they had given them enough sedative to knock them out for the night.

FIthlilly seems to be suggesting that the overdosed their kids throughout the holiday and then raised the subject of sedation with the police  More improbable events to add to the long list!

[Lace]

FIthlilly seems to be suggesting that the overdosed their kids throughout the holiday and then raised the subject of sedation with the police  More improbable events to add to the long list!

If the McCann's had sedated their children,   then walking up and down placing your hand on the backs of the twins,  asking the PJ for them to be tested for drugs,  mentioning the stain and Madeleine asking why they didn't come when Sean and her cried,  was really putting them off the scent wasn't it?

[slartibartfast]

If the McCann's had sedated their children,   then walking up and down placing your hand on the backs of the twins,  asking the PJ for them to be tested for drugs,  mentioning the stain and Madeleine asking why they didn't come when Sean and her cried,  was really putting them off the scent wasn't it?

Please cite the timings and sources for all those claims.

[sadie]

Then why are they concerned enough to ask the FLO about it? You really can't have it both ways.

Because they thought that if the twins had been sedated , then it might provide a clue to the PJ as to who had done it, so lead to finding their missing daughter

I still think the fact that Madeleine was so tired after her tea that ..

1)  she had to be carried home
+
2)  all three of them being so tired that that particular night, they didn't meet up with their friends to play on the slide and climbing frame etc

.. could be very significant.  Was something potent put in their hot chocolate/ horlicks / Ovaltine ?

I wonder if that is what The Mccanns were wondering too ?
And they wanted the PJ to look into it ?

[sadie]

Please cite the timings and sources for all those claims.

Diversionary tactics slarti

It has been shown in posts above, with sources that the PJ, or the police, were told.  They should have acted. 

They didn't.  Why?

[Robittybob1]

If the McCann's had sedated their children,   then walking up and down placing your hand on the backs of the twins,  asking the PJ for them to be tested for drugs,  mentioning the stain and Madeleine asking why they didn't come when Sean and her cried,  was really putting them off the scent wasn't it?

That would depend entirely on what the truth was.  Amaral developed his suspicions very early so may have thought they were just diversions and therefore didn't want to follow up on these observations and fears of the children's mother, father and friends.

[slartibartfast]

Diversionary tactics slarti

It has been shown in posts above, with sources that the PJ, or the police, were told.  They should have acted. 

They didn't.  Why?

When were they told and who said?

[sadie]

When were they told and who said?

Look yourself.  It has been well chewed over in the past couple of days.

[faithlilly]

And neither can you.  This conversation is getting tiresome.  I was accused of being very black and white by a moderator today.  I think this accusation could certainly be levelled at you.

You said the McCanns weren't worried about the twins because they were okay the next morning yet in the next post you say they asked the FLO's about sedation because they were worried about the twins being in such a deep sleep. So what is it?

If you find it tiresome to answer about your ridiculous assertions perhaps you should not post them in the first place.

[faithlilly]

cite? 
And of course Gerry was not just a doctor but a heart specialist, and Kate a one-time anaethetist but I'm sure neither would have been able to tell from monitoring them that their kids were on the verge of imminent death.    &%+((£

Tell me Alfie when looking at the way a patient's heart is performing does Gerry a) hook them up to complicated machines and interpret the resulting read outs or b) give them a cuddle and gauge their heart health from that?

[Robittybob1]

When were they told and who said?

You do realise that they can't communicate directly with the GNR or the PJ? 

[misty]

You said the McCanns weren't worried about the twins because they were okay the next morning yet in the next post you say they asked the FLO's about sedation because they were worried about the twins being in such a deep sleep. So what is it?

If you find it tiresome to answer about your ridiculous assertions perhaps you should not post them in the first place.

Whatever the McCanns did or didn't say to the police on the night of 3rd May, it would have been entirely in the PJ's best investigative interest to determine
 a)if the twins had been sedated &
 b)if so, the type of drug used.

Had any test results borne relation to any of the medication found in 5a, then they could be used in evidence against the parents. Otherwise........very poor policework.