Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[faithlilly]

Irrelevant.  The discussion was concerning the ability of doctors to check vital signs without the use of "complicated machines". Is it possible or not, in your view?

No the discussion is that when presented with an unresponsive child who you believe has ingested an unknown substance would it be possible just by eye and touch to gauge the damage it had done or was doing. Of course the sensible answer to that is no.

[Alfie]

No the discussion is that when presented with an unresponsive child who you believe has ingested an unknown substance would it be possible just by eye and touch to gauge the damage it had done or was doing. Of course the sensible answer to that is no.

Of course you are the expert so we must defer to your greater knowledge. 

[Alice Purjorick]

It is not so improbable when you consider the conflict of interest being dealt with by Silvia Batista.  Head of the OC Childcare services and a child gone missing on her watch.
7852.135

Strictly speaking it was outside her remit.
Would you care to delineate this conflict of interest wrt Sra Batista, that you persistently refer to?

[Alfie]

That the OP that kicked it off was based on two newspaper articles, the accuracy and provenance of neither being known, a bit of fill in text by Robbitybob and off it goes shoving out pseodopodia in all diections like so many demented amoebae.
I incline to the view that what we know now is no more nor less than was known in 2008 after the files were released.

Thanks for that illuminating contribution to the debate. 

[Alice Purjorick]

Thanks for that illuminating contribution to the debate.

I am glad you found it illuminating.
What is your detailed analysis of the debate to date then?

[Alfie]

I am glad you found it illuminating.
What is your detailed analysis of the debate to date then?

My analysis is that mountains are once again being made out of molehills for the sole purpose of denigrating Kate McCann.  Plus ca change and all that...

[slartibartfast]

Maybe someone on here knows what level of discussion took place in the internet between the disappearance and the book about the twins deep sleep?

No one?

[Alfie]

No one?

I don't think anyone understands the question.  I don't.

[misty]

Strictly speaking it was outside her remit.
Would you care to delineate this conflict of interest wrt Sra Batista, that you persistently refer to?

If I may intrude here - SB was responsible for the people who had access to the apartments & vitally, who had access to the apartment keys on behalf of OC. Is that a conflict of interest?

[G-Unit]

Irrelevant.  The discussion was concerning the ability of doctors to check vital signs without the use of "complicated machines". Is it possible or not, in your view?

The vital signs are blood pressure, temperature, pulse rate and breathing rate. Equipment is needed, but not complicated machines. The equipment needed is a thermometer, a sphygmomanometer, and a watch.

Nowhere does it say that the twin's vital signs were checked. The only recorded check was to see if they were breathing.

[Alfie]

The vital signs are blood pressure, temperature, pulse rate and breathing rate. Equipment is needed, but not complicated machines. The equipment needed is a thermometer, a sphygmomanometer, and a watch.

Nowhere does it say that the twin's vital signs were checked. The only recorded check was to see if they were breathing.

An experienced doctor is able to judge whether the pulse rate, temperature and breathing of a patient is normal without any equipment at all, do you not agree?

[Alfie]

The vital signs are blood pressure, temperature, pulse rate and breathing rate. Equipment is needed, but not complicated machines. The equipment needed is a thermometer, a sphygmomanometer, and a watch.

Nowhere does it say that the twin's vital signs were checked. The only recorded check was to see if they were breathing.

This is a popular argument - "nowhere does it say", as if every single thought and deed that night was recorded for posterity for us to scrutinize at a later date.  There were many hours that night, between Madeleine being found missing and daylight the next day when the twins presumably awoke as normal.  None of us knows precisely what Kate did or did not do with regard to monitoring or checking the twins' health.  It's possible she tried to rouse them, it's possible they did awaken briefly when being moved or cuddled.  We haven't been given detailed minute-by-minute accounts regarding the twins' apparent unconsciousness.  I am prepared to give Kate the benefit of the doubt, that whilst she was concerned enough initially to check their breathing by laying a hand on their backs (and let's face it - what parent hasn't done similar with a child that has slept well past the time it normally awakens), that monitoring their breathing and temperature throughout the rest of the night, by holding them close, was sufficient to reassure her that the twins were not in imminent danger of death.  Clearly that is not suffcient checking to pass your due diligence standards but that is your problem. 

[ferryman]

My analysis is that mountains are once again being made out of molehills for the sole purpose of denigrating Kate McCann.  Plus ca change and all that...

You must stop taking these words out of my mouth, Alfie.

I'll report you for theft ....

 

[ferryman]

I think another point worth mentioning is that Kate's book will doubtless have been read by hundreds, even thousands, in the medical profession, at least a very high proportion of whom will know the ins-and-outs of sedation, actual or suspected, what to look for and what (appropriate) action to take in this, or, that, scenario.

Not a murmur of protest from any of them.

Odd, that.

Or maybe not so odd ....

[Mr Gray]

The vital signs are blood pressure, temperature, pulse rate and breathing rate. Equipment is needed, but not complicated machines. The equipment needed is a thermometer, a sphygmomanometer, and a watch.

Nowhere does it say that the twin's vital signs were checked. The only recorded check was to see if they were breathing.

By placing her hand on someone's chest you can tell a lot more than if they are breathing or not