Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Brietta]

But it seems to me that opening the gate, walking up the steps, opening the child gate, opening the patio doors, pulling the curtains over and walking through the apartment would take longer than simply walking round the front and opening the front door, looking in the bedroom, which was just to the right and then out again.  The only downside to this is that the opening and closing the front door so close to the children's bedroom may have disturbed them.  I just get the feeling we are not hearing the full facts re this checking "childcare arrangement" and therein lies the answer imo. 

If GM did not physically check the children at circa 9pm then MM may well have disappeared from the apartment, by whatever means, from anytime between 8.30pm and 10pm.  Albis then might not be so strong!

Why do you suppose Kate raised the alarm around ten pm instead of when the twins woke in the morning?

[The General]

Are you looking at the photo of the lock.  From the outside the key had to be used to lock it and to double lock it.

From memory the single lock was below the double lock.  There are specific terms for the components to a lock and the words are not on the tip of my tongue sorry.
One of the terms is bolt.  That bit that moves to  jam the door is a bolt.

So I think we discussed the other day that it's impossible to do the old, UK thing and pull the door to, which would lock it. You must use the key to turn 90 degrees clockwise (the bolt moves in and out). So the bolt is square, not chamfered? Where's that frickin picture.....

[The General]

Why do you suppose Kate raised the alarm around ten pm instead of when the twins woke in the morning?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but can you elaborate? What do you mean by 'when the twins woke in the morning'?

[Robittybob1]

So I think we discussed the other day that it's impossible to do the old, UK thing and pull the door to, which would lock it. You must use the key to turn 90 degrees clockwise (the bolt moves in and out). So the bolt is square, not chamfered? Where's that frickin picture.....

I had a whole thread or two on this particular issue.  It is not easy to accept that the door can't just be slammed shut.  But that was a problem for they were always being called out to clients that were locked out, so somehow the locks were modified to require a key to lock them.  And they were only given one key per apartment.  And that was another issue when there was 2 or 3 adults in an apartment.  How did they keep track of who had the key?  So the key was found, in the case of the Payne family, was under the door mat.  How great was that?

[Robittybob1]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but can you elaborate? What do you mean by 'when the twins woke in the morning'?

Next morning.  Next day.

[The General]

I had a whole thread or two on this particular issue.  It is not easy to accept that the door can't just be slammed shut.  But that was a problem for they were always being called out to clients that were locked out, so somehow the locks were modified to require a key to lock them.  And they were only given one key per apartment.  And that was another issue when there was 2 or 3 adults in an apartment.  How did they keep track of who had the key?  So the key was found, in the case of the Payne family, was under the door mat.  How great was that?

Cheers for that.

[The General]

Next morning.  Next day.

Am I being dense here? Surely they'd have to raise the alarm at the time they naturally got in that evening if Kate hadn't noticed her missing at 10pm?

[Robittybob1]

Am I being dense here? Surely they'd have to raise the alarm at the time they naturally got in that evening if Kate hadn't noticed her missing at 10pm?

I must have been a slack parent myself.  In my case it would be next morning.  Kate wasn't going into the room but she noted the door out of place.  If it was quiet, there was no need to check the room itself.  All 3 kids could have gone and it would have been missed had the door been in the right place.

[The General]

I must have been a slack parent myself.  In my case it would be next morning.  Kate wasn't going into the room but she noted the door out of place.  If it was quiet, there was no need to check the room itself.  All 3 kids could have gone and it would have been missed had the door been in the right place.

I still don't get it. When she got in from the Tapas bar later, she would have checked the kids and she would have discovered one missing?

[slartibartfast]

I still don't get it. When she got in from the Tapas bar later, she would have checked the kids and she would have discovered one missing?

It’s a parental choice, parents of light/bad sleepers may be more likely to rely on sound checks rather than risk disturbance.

[Miss Taken Identity]

It’s a parental choice, parents of light/bad sleepers may be more likely to rely on sound checks rather than risk disturbance.

Indeed.  which is why the concern about the sound sleeping children on that occasion was interesting to the pj.

[Brietta]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but can you elaborate? What do you mean by 'when the twins woke in the morning'?

Don't you think the hours between 10pm and 7.30am could have been put to far better use by criminals setting a scene and covering their tracks than raising a hue and cry at the earliest opportunity?

[Holly Goodhead]

Why do you suppose Kate raised the alarm around ten pm instead of when the twins woke in the morning?

Because she did a physical check at 10pm and found MM had disappeared.  I choose to use the term disappeared rather than abducted as I do not see the conclusive evidence for abduction.  If MM came to some fatal harm in the apartment and her body removed this would not be abduction.  If MM woke and wandered this would not be abduction.

[Lace]

That's clarified the front door then, thanks.  So although many knew the children were home 'home alone' they would not necessarily know (other than T7) that the patio door was unlocked.  Therefore any would be abductor may have entered via the window and then out the front door with MM.  If someone entered the bedroom via the window then he/she would land on the bed and surely someone would have noticed some sort of indentation from feet or a body or whatever?  Also unlikely the bed was empty probably had children's bits and pieces on eg toys, clothes etc which would be disturbed?  I don't recall reading anything about this?

Amaral said there were no marks indicating someone had stood on the bed under the window.   Though how they came to that conclusion is beyond me,   Kate had slept in that bed on the Wednesday night and so it was unmade.

[kizzy]

Amaral said there were no marks indicating someone had stood on the bed under the window.   Though how they came to that conclusion is beyond me,   Kate had slept in that bed on the Wednesday night and so it was unmade.

How do you know it wasnt made the morning after - maybe that is how they came to that conclusion.

Is that IYO the bed was not made L