MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.

[jassi]

if the solution was so diliute it would be uncertain if you had any blood cells in your sample

That's certainly a possibility, the figure I gave for detection was merely an example.
Human blood contains about 5 billion red cells per millilitre, so there would likely be enough in the dilution.

I have no idea what level of blood a laboratory can detect. It might be a much higher concentration than that.

[jassi]

a pool of liquid blood woiuld be giving off a lot of scent.....a very dilute solution may give off none

The point is, at what level is it undetectable, compared to a laboratory.

[Brietta]

So the reason they deploy dogs over reservoirs is ....... what?

The smell of decomposition being released from human remains somewhere in the depths.  They are very accomplished at doing so ... if the body is there acting as a source of the scent.  The problem arises when VRDs are tasked to indicate? where remains may have been ... not where they are.

[Mr Gray]

The point is, at what level is it undetectable, compared to a laboratory.

as far as I have seen grime doesnt mention a laboratory

[Robittybob1]

The point is, at what level is it undetectable, compared to a laboratory.

No one knows what it is the dog is sensing therefore there is no laboratory test to check it.

[Mr Gray]

No one knows what it is the dog is sensing therefore there is no laboratory test to check it.

and if there is no laboratory test then there is no reliable evidence...an unfortunate TRUTH for the sceptics

[Robittybob1]

and if there is no laboratory test then there is no reliable evidence...an unfortunate TRUTH for the sceptics

The value of the dog is the rapidity of the result.  Otherwise how many tests would you need to do to check a room?  Then you have to wait to get the result.
Dog - instant result.

[Carana]

The smell of decomposition being released from human remains somewhere in the depths.  They are very accomplished at doing so ... if the body is there acting as a source of the scent.  The problem arises when VRDs are tasked to indicate? where remains may have been ... not where they are.

That's where I have a problem. They're often invaluable in finding a body or whatever else specialised dogs are trained for, when they lead to physical evidence, but "anecdotal evidence" of where a body / scent may have once been seems somewhat more iffy. There have been a few studies or cases in which dogs turned out to be correct, but there are so many unknown factors, particularly in non double-blind instances, that it just doesn't seem that reliable to me.

[Mr Gray]

The value of the dog is the rapidity of the result.  Otherwise how many tests would you need to do to check a room?  Then you have to wait to get the result.
Dog - instant result.

an instant unreliable result......therefore a worthless result

[slartibartfast]

Even easier would be to put a drop of blood on one item and not on another. Clean both items until no forensic information can be recovered then perform multiple tests with dogs, collate the results and check for significant results.

[Robittybob1]

Even easier would be to put a drop of blood on one item and not on another. Clean both items until no forensic information can be recovered then perform multiple tests with dogs, collate the results and check for significant results.

You have to have a trained dog first.  The training is an enormous task and it requires daily training exercises to keep the dogs focused.  The test is simple but getting the dog is the problem.

[Mr Gray]

Even easier would be to put a drop of blood on one item and not on another. Clean both items until no forensic information can be recovered then perform multiple tests with dogs, collate the results and check for significant results.

How would you know you have cleaned it it until no forensic information could be recovered

[slartibartfast]

How would you know you have cleaned it it until no forensic information could be recovered

Try and recover forensic information.

[Mr Gray]

Try and recover forensic information.

The whole idea is totally ridiculous

[Mr Gray]

Grime has made this claim and it appears he has no evidence to support it