Moving door - 9:05 check

[Robittybob1]

Jane Tanner really didn't think too much about it at the time, apart from finding it odd that the child was not better wrapped against the evening chill.
The significance became apparent only when Madeleine's disappearance was discovered.

It took the Smiths a fortnight to make that connection.

I suppose there was a reason for the delay?  I can't think of it immediately.

[Robittybob1]

"Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."
 Main door unlocked - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville

[Brietta]

"Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."
 Main door unlocked - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville

At that time there was confusion as to what was the main door.  For clarification the doors were later referred to as poolside door and (I think) car park door.
The car park door was 'the main door' which could only be opened from outside by using a key ... therefore locked.
The poolside door was was the one which was unlocked.

[Robittybob1]

I think this is really significant
http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/kate-mccanns-chilling-first-words-moments-after-maddie-went-missing

"“We didn’t see a soul in the original timeline”
Recounting the time period in which it is thought Maddie was taken, the couple said they were on their balcony drinking whiskey, but saw nothing suspicious going on.

“We didn’t see a soul in the original timeline of 9pm to 9.30pm. My take on it, as I have said a million times, especially to the Met, I don’t know what happened. I do feel there is information that the public at large doesn’t know,” he says.

“My wife is of a different opinion and feels it was an abduction. All we can say is we didn’t see anything in the time window that was allotted.”


But that doesn't really make that much sense either because during that time period Matt did his first check, Gerry did a check and spoke with Jez in the street, and Jane went past twice.  The view might have been on the McCann's patio but seems ineffective as to what is happening in the street.

[Brietta]

I think this is really significant
http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/kate-mccanns-chilling-first-words-moments-after-maddie-went-missing

"“We didn’t see a soul in the original timeline”
Recounting the time period in which it is thought Maddie was taken, the couple said they were on their balcony drinking whiskey, but saw nothing suspicious going on.

“We didn’t see a soul in the original timeline of 9pm to 9.30pm. My take on it, as I have said a million times, especially to the Met, I don’t know what happened. I do feel there is information that the public at large doesn’t know,” he says.

“My wife is of a different opinion and feels it was an abduction. All we can say is we didn’t see anything in the time window that was allotted.”


But that doesn't really make that much sense either because during that time period Matt did his first check, Gerry did a check and spoke with Jez in the street, and Jane went past twice.  The view might have been on the McCann's patio but seems ineffective as to what is happening in the street.

What would Mr and Mrs Moyes have seen from their balcony had they stood up and looked directly down?  In my opinion they might have seen a corner of Mrs Fenn's balcony.  The roof of the McCann balcony, which in all probability would obscure sight of 5A stairs with the hedge obscuring sight of the gate.

It would have been impossible for them to see anything at the front of the building from their balcony.  The door may have been opened with a key, the shutter may have been raised from inside, the man seen by Jane Tanner may have exited via the carpark.

Even Jane Tanner who was walking on the street did not see where the man she saw at the junction had come from.

Incidentally ... there is quite a variance in the width of the pavement when viewed from above ... at the approximate place where Jane and Jez thought the conversation had taken place there is ample room to pass with ease ... thanks perhaps to the curvature of the wall into the lane.
How dark the entrance doorway into the ground floor looks in the brightest sunlight.

[sadie]

What would Mr and Mrs Moyes have seen from their balcony had they stood up and looked directly down?  In my opinion they might have seen a corner of Mrs Fenn's balcony.  The roof of the McCann balcony, which in all probability would obscure sight of 5A stairs with the hedge obscuring sight of the gate.

It would have been impossible for them to see anything at the front of the building from their balcony.  The door may have been opened with a key, the shutter may have been raised from inside, the man seen by Jane Tanner may have exited via the carpark.

Even Jane Tanner who was walking on the street did not see where the man she saw at the junction had come from.

Incidentally ... there is quite a variance in the width of the pavement when viewed from above ... at the approximate place where Jane and Jez thought the conversation had taken place there is ample room to pass with ease ... thanks perhaps to the curvature of the wall into the lane.
How dark the entrance doorway into the ground floor looks in the brightest sunlight.

Exactly.

For some reason, I am unable to post images of the rear of block 5

But, furthermore to Briettas observations, if one looks at photos of the block from further down that street, it will be noticeable that the Moyes balcony is nowhere near as long as Mrs Fenns balcony.  It is set way back from the street.  Even when standing up, they would not see anyone passing by 5A because both Mrs Fenns Balcony and the building of 5A itself would obscure their view.

Not many people stand up anyway when they can sit down enjoying a glass of whisky !   And being a cool gusty night, they almost certainly would be in the walled-in area to shield them from the wind, rather than the open railed area.


Sorry, but I doubt that the Moyes could see anything of the movements down below.

[Robittybob1]

But if they heard something they could stand and look.

I think we are looking the wrong way, it didn't need to be the Moyes who saw the mystery couple IMO, it is obviously something released by the investigation.  A confession they have but they haven't released to us via the PJ file IMO.

[Eleanor]

Moving Door.  Someone was in that appartment after Kate and Gerry left to go to dinner, and before Gerry went back to check at 9pm.  This isn't a great mystery.  Someone was hiding in that Appartment.

And then left the door more wide open when they finally left after taking Madeleine by whatever means.

Alway the most simply explanation is the right one.

[G-Unit]

Moving Door.  Someone was in that appartment after Kate and Gerry left to go to dinner, and before Gerry went back to check at 9pm.  This isn't a great mystery.  Someone was hiding in that Appartment.

And then left the door more wide open when they finally left after taking Madeleine by whatever means.

Alway the most simply explanation is the right one.

That's not simple in my opinion. Simple is forgetting how you left the door in the first place.

[Eleanor]

That's not simple in my opinion. Simple is forgetting how you left the door in the first place.

But I don't think that they did.  That was the whole point.  They didn't forget.

[sadie]

But if they heard something they could stand and look.

I think we are looking the wrong way, it didn't need to be the Moyes who saw the mystery couple IMO, it is obviously something released by the investigation.  A confession they have but they haven't released to us via the PJ file IMO.

Their balcony is set back both from the road and the rear of the building.  The roof of 5A sticks out further as well.

Even if the Moyes stood, they couldn't see anyone passing the side of 5A, nor across 5A gate, nor up the steps.

Because of X6AX 5A hedge obstructing their view, neither could they see anyone, including Jane T,  who passed up that road on the westerly pavement unless, maybe, if the person was walking very near the kerb.

Maybe, maybe not, they could see Gerry and Jez talking on the edge of the Westerly pavement/in the gutter ... if they looked at the correct time.

If they looked at the right time, then they could see Jez before he crossed the road to chat with Gerry


The chances of either of the last things are quite remote.

To be quite frank, imo, they didn't see anyone from the Tapas group.  They couldn't, their line of vision being blocked even standing up

[pathfinder73]

Moving Door.  Someone was in that appartment after Kate and Gerry left to go to dinner, and before Gerry went back to check at 9pm.  This isn't a great mystery.  Someone was hiding in that Appartment.

And then left the door more wide open when they finally left after taking Madeleine by whatever means.

Alway the most simply explanation is the right one.

So according to you, somebody got in the apartment before Gerry. Gerry said Madeleine was sleeping so what was the abductor doing before 9? Watching her sleeping?

No draughts or sounds when Matt checked at 9:30. No open window or moving curtains.

Kate arrived nearly an hour after Gerry and found the door wide open and window open so you think an abductor was hiding in the apartment for that long? Doing what exactly?

[slartibartfast]

Moving Door.  Someone was in that appartment after Kate and Gerry left to go to dinner, and before Gerry went back to check at 9pm.  This isn't a great mystery.  Someone was hiding in that Appartment.

And then left the door more wide open when they finally left after taking Madeleine by whatever means.

Alway the most simply explanation is the right one.

I am sure at least 3 people were in the apartment...

[Eleanor]

So according to you, somebody got in the apartment before Gerry. Gerry said Madeleine was sleeping so what was the abductor doing before 9? Watching her sleeping?

No draughts or sounds when Matt checked at 9:30. No open window or moving curtains.

Kate arrived nearly an hour after Gerry and found the door wide open and window open so you think an abductor was hiding in the apartment for that long? Doing what exactly?

Don't be so silly.  it was  bit more simple than what you chose to believe,

[pathfinder73]

Don't be so silly.  it was  bit more simple than what you chose to believe,

No evidence of an open window or raised shutters at 9:30 so your abduction theory is not credible.