CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles

[faithlilly]

This was done in situ ... and we can see and hear Jane Tanner verbatim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY

Starting at about 9.40

Jane was on the spot where it happened and she is very definite about the exact place.  By the alleyway.   Much better than trying to recollect in some office away from the place.   IMO it completely over- rides the one done in an office somewhere.

Her recollection in that video and Jezes drawing co-incide with Amarals video where he shows where it happened.  Also by the alleyway.

Jezes one description entirely points to that area too and another one where he talks about by "The Pool" also seems to refer to that area

Three people including the head Honcho confirm the same spot.

The spot was by that alleyway where there was plenty of room for Jane to pass ... about 9 feet!


Three agreeing statements would be more than anough in a Court Case, I think ... especially as one was by the Head Honcho


Can we move on please.  I haven't the time or energy to keep going over this.


Myth over.

The documentary was done some years after the event when Tanner's recollection would have been tainted by things she'd learned since ( she admits as much in her rogatory interview).  What she recollected on the 4th of May ( when the picture was drawn) will undoubtedly be more accurate than something remembered years later.

[Robittybob1]

Tanner's drawing of where Jez/Gerry were standing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_50.jpg

Nowhere near the corner.

It depends on how you interpret what Jane has drawn. 

The cross hatched part are the buildings and the blocks are the car parks.  If you read it like I'm suggesting they are very similar.   Jane marks where she was when she saw the individual (4) and later where the individual was when she got to the top of the road (8)

[sadie]

The mockumentary was done some years after the event when Tanner's recollection would have been tainted by things she'd learned since ( she admits as much in her rogatory interview).  What she recollected on the 4th of May ( when the picture was drawn) will undoubtedly be more accurate than something remembered years later.

When she was so distressed? 
Think again Faith, on this Cutting Edge video she is at the actual place, rather than an anonymous office somewhere sweating and crying her heart out in all probability..

If she was conspiring with the Mccanns (Your quote

Tanners recollection tainted by things she had learned since

) why did she go so very strongly across Gerry?

She was very definite where the chat took place.

[Angelo222]

Amaral hinted that he didn't believe Tanner when she claimed to have walked up the road passing Gerry and Jez before encountering the child-carrying elusive stranger.  He suggests she never passed the two men after leaving the mini reception but turned off left and cut along the path in front of the apartments as it was a shortcut to her apartment. He reasons that this is why neither man saw Tanner pass them and why Tanner never saw an open window and shutter at 5a. He also suggests that Tanner may have seen a man carrying a child from her north facing balcony window while she was minding her sick daughter, a man whom SY now suggest was probably an innocent tourist.

According to Amaral, the McC's weren't the only ones to have left their patio door unlocked to facilitate access from that path.



The apartments occupied by the McCanns, Oldfield and Tanner all had patio access to the path which runs along in front of the apartments.

[sadie]

Amaral hinted that he didn't believe Tanner when she claimed to have walked up the road passing Gerry and Jez before encountering the child-carrying elusive stranger.  He thinks she never passed the two men but turned off left and cut along the path in front of the apartments as a short cut. This he suggests explains why neither man admited to seeing Tanner pass them and why Tanner never saw an open window and shutter at 5a.

He also claims that the McC's weren't the only ones to have left their patio door unlocked to facilitate access from that path.

Why did they all walk around the front then?   Jane is a very plucky woman but no woman would want to walk along an unlit alleyway at night.

Amarals main purpose after the first few hours was to try to prove that The parents were responsible. 
In his O Enigma video he actually points out the place that Gerry and Jez were chatting.  It is on the very corner of the alleyway where he said (you say)  that Jane was walking up to the patio door of her flat, so she had to pass them anyway.   His argument doesn't hold water.

He seems to me to just be trying to prove that there was no abductor, in order to further his theory, or what?

AIMHO
#

Nigh Night

[Angelo222]

The path doesn't look too dark to me.  Haven't you already claimed that the patio and path were well lit by the street lamp?

[Angelo222]

Why did they all walk around the front then?   Jane is a very plucky woman but no woman would want to walk along an unlit alleyway at night.

Amarals main purpose after the first few hours was to try to prove that The parents were responsible. 
In his O Enigma video he actually points out the place that Gerry and Jez were chatting.  It is on the very corner of the alleyway where he said (you say)  that Jane was walking up to the patio door of her flat, so she had to pass them anyway.   His argument doesn't hold water.

He seems to me to just be trying to prove that there was no abductor, in order to further his theory, or what?

AIMHO
#

Nigh Night

Jane doesn't place them at the corner but half way between the corner and the gate to 5a.  That would correspond with what Jez Wilkins also stated.

The two GNR policemen who first attended the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared also had grave doubts as to whether there had been an abduction.  The evidence just didn't point to it.

[faithlilly]

When she was so distressed? 
Think again Faith, on this Cutting Edge video she is at the actual place, rather than an anonymous office somewhere sweating and crying her heart out in all probability..

If she was conspiring with the Mccanns (Your quote) why did she go so very strongly across Gerry?

She was very definite where the chat took place.

Tanner admitted in her rogatory interview that what she remembered about the child she saw may have been coloured by what she learned later. This doesn't mean I suggested she was conspiring with the McCanns I was simply repeating her thoughts.

Tanner's first recollections, as with everyone else, would have been the most accurate, uncoloured as it were by later knowledge. This is why the police consider them the most valuable in terms of evidence.

[Angelo222]

Tanner admitted in her rogatory interview that what she remembered about the child she saw may have been coloured by what she learned later. This doesn't mean I suggested she was conspiring with the McCanns I was simply repeating her thoughts.

Tanner's first recollections, as with everyone else, would have been the most accurate, uncoloured as it were by later knowledge. This is why the police consider them the most valuable in terms of evidence.

Which is why Amaral was so suspicious when GM changed his story about which door he used to gain access to 5a.

[Robittybob1]

Amaral hinted that he didn't believe Tanner when she claimed to have walked up the road passing Gerry and Jez before encountering the child-carrying elusive stranger.  He suggests she never passed the two men after leaving the mini reception but turned off left and cut along the path in front of the apartments as it was a shortcut to her apartment. He reasons that this is why neither man saw Tanner pass them and why Tanner never saw an open window and shutter at 5a. He also suggests that Tanner may have seen a man carrying a child from her north facing balcony window while she was minding her sick daughter, a man whom SY now suggest was probably an innocent tourist.

According to Amaral, the McC's weren't the only ones to have left their patio door unlocked to facilitate access from that path.



The apartments occupied by the McCanns, Oldfield and Tanner all had patio access to the path which runs along in front of the apartments.

It is amazing how Amaral can rewrite everyone's statements.   It is only shorter that way if the apartments were all accessible through the patio doors.  I think they all say they used keys and their front doors (except for the McCanns).

[sadie]

Jane doesn't place them at the corner but half way between the corner and the gate to 5a.  That would correspond with what Jez Wilkins also stated.

The two GNR policemen who first attended the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared also had grave doubts as to whether there had been an abduction.  The evidence just didn't point to it.

Please do me the honour of watching the relevant part of this video Angelo, instead of ignoring it.


This was done in situ ... and we can see and hear Jane Tanner verbatim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY

Starting at about 9.40.  Jane is understandably upset and angry with Gerry

You will notice that Jane was looking at the spot where it happened and she very deliberately moved down to the spot where Gerry and Jez were chatting.   She is very definite about the exact place.  By the alleyway.   Much better than trying to recollect in some office away from the place.   IMO it completely over- rides the one done in an office somewhere.

And Amaral agrees with her in his video.
Jez also agrees with her, both on a plan and in his testimony.

[Robittybob1]

Sadie - you would have to agree that that video is rather supportive of the McCanns. They use the word abduction etc.
https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=553 they describe the checking of the children "as taking turns to do half hourly check on each other's children".  Now I presume that does not imply they were going into all the apartments every half hour but doing a listening check from the outside for any crying.  This goes in the face of Mrs Fenn's statement, unless the crying was heard but it took another half hour for a response to arrive. (some say the group went to Chaplins Bar on the Tuesday).
 
So basically Gerry describes quite a feasible reaction to seeing someone across the road from his apartment.  He goes over to check to see who it was.  Ok it was Jez, and he relaxes again.
But what would motivate Jez to march over toward Gerry? 

[Robittybob1]

Jane walks on from where she passed Jez and Gerry and describes where she was when she saw the person carrying the child.  This fits in pretty well with the diagram she drew on the 4th.

[Robittybob1]

Is this image at this location https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=683  suppose to represent Gerry and Jez talking on the opposite side of the road to Jane?
It has the word's "Jane Tanner's witness statement"  on it but Jane never said they were across the other side of the road.

The image at this spot is not accurate either as Jane describes the child as limp.  and here the legs are toned.  https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=718

At https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=761 they tell a new variation of the truth .  Matthew only had to look into his own and the McCann's not "all the children".
It shows Matt coming from the Tapas and then going into the McCann's apartment.  This is not the order described in his statement.  He does his apartment first in his statement.

https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=800  Gerry: "At no point other than that night did I stick my head in..."
That is quite an admission don't you think?

[sadie]

Sadie - you would have to agree that that video is rather supportive of the McCanns. They use the word abduction etc.
https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=553 they describe the checking of the children "as taking turns to do half hourly check on each other's children".  Now I presume that does not imply they were going into all the apartments every half hour but doing a listening check from the outside for any crying.  This goes in the face of Mrs Fenn's statement, unless the crying was heard but it took another half hour for a response to arrive. (some say the group went to Chaplins Bar on the Tuesday).

If Kate and Gerry KNOW that they were not involved and they KNOW that Madeleine was incapable of opening the window and opening the shutter .. and also incapable of leaving the apartment by any of the routes mentioned why shouldn't they use the word "abducted"? 

Using ANY word BUT "abducted" is an invention of this forum + possibly other Mccann opposing forums. Everyone else uses the word.
SY use the word "abducted".   


They were doing half hour checks, even Amaral basically believes that.  Mrs Fenn was an old woman.  Most people of her age have hearing difficulties.  If she was more ddeaf in one ear than the other, she would,nt have a clue which direction the crying came from and there were other children adjacent and nearby.   
Had one of the Mccann children been crying that long and hard, all three would have been at it.  She only heard one.   Therefore it wasn't any of thev Mccann children IMHO

Chaplins Bar is another myth to beat The Mccanns with .... and pretend that they were a long way away

We ate there.  It is a restaurant, which was packed when we went there. 

The waiters and others say that The Mccanns ate every night in the Tapas restaurant, other than the first night when they ate at the Millenium.  With all due respect, you are listening to too many people who like to spread myths ... and watching too many HideHo videos

So basically Gerry describes quite a feasible reaction to seeing someone across the road from his apartment.  He goes over to check to see who it was.  Ok it was Jez, and he relaxes again.
But what would motivate Jez to march over toward Gerry?

You are not thinking that Gerry was involved now are you Rob, because the way you have worded that sounds like you might be?

Seems Gerry probably met Jez in the middle of the road and started their chat there.  A vehicle was coming, so they backed the way the pram was pointing. that is to the kerb on the west side of the road.  THere were cars etc parked there (Stephen Carpenters statement) and they slotted themselves between them to protect themselves.   I cant see Jez still standing in the road if the pram was exposed to danger.


That is how I see it, but maybe it goes against YOUR theory cos I cant understand that you are not taking on board the fact that three lots of different people have very definitely pointed to Gerry and Jez being by the Alleyway.

IMO