Discussion of points raised in Danny Collins' book Vanished ...

[Benice]

Has it never occurred to you, that the shutter and window were never open ?

No.

The open window and shutters were the main reason why the McCanns knew their daughter had been abducted. 

It has been claimed that they were 'staged'.   However if that was true then the one thing the McCanns would have done would have been to make sure they stayed open for the police or other independent witnesses to see this compelling evidence which they had apparently dreamed up to prove abduction.

They didn't do that - and so IMO by closing them, it proved that either the McCanns are as thick as pudding and stupidly ruined their own cunning master plan - or that they were telling the truth and closed them to protect the twins from the cold breeze.   AFAIAC - the McCanns are not a pair of thickos.
IMO

   

 

[Benice]

They haven't investigated the McCann's.

They were off limits.

Have you forgotten why Sutton refused to take on OG ?

Any chance you can actually address the following question to you from my post?

Quote
Are you claiming that the Oporto team were not allowed to carry out their investigations in exactly the way they wanted to -  but have been restricted by a 'remit'.     They have also ruled the McCanns out of their investigations. 
End quote

[stephen25000]

No.

The open window and shutters were the main reason why the McCanns knew their daughter had been abducted. 

It has been claimed that they were 'staged'.   However if that was true then the one thing the McCanns would have done would have been to make sure they stayed open for the police or other independent witnesses to see this compelling evidence which they had apparently dreamed up to prove abduction.

They didn't do that - and so IMO by closing them, it proved that either the McCanns are as thick as pudding and stupidly ruined their own cunning master plan - or that they were telling the truth and closed them to protect the twins from the cold breeze.   AFAIAC - the McCanns are not a pair of thickos.
IMO

 

Abduction is a belief, not a fact.

So tell me yet again Benice, why did they search the apartment after claiming abduction.

Personally, I think the claim of abduction is complete hogwash.

As to being thickos, well they left their children unattended and exposed to danger.

[Angelo222]

As the diagonal path taken by those crossing the carpark was nowhere near apartment 5A which was in darkness, and not in the natural line of sight of anyone walking across it  - that is hardly surprising.    People, especially if they are in a hurry tend to look ahead to where they are going. 

Heri posted an arial piccie of the car park - showing the diagonal path taken, and also showing the extensive trees and foliage which caused the corner where 5a was to be in darkness.

If anyone can find that piccie (I haven't been able to) - it shows exactly how anything going on at 5a's would be easily missed by anyone in the few seconds it took them to cross the carpark IMO.

AIMHO

The car park wasn't shrouded in darkness, in fact there is a lantern not that far from the bedroom window. 

[G-Unit]

If people pick and choose their 'evidence' and simply ignore or choose to disbelieve evidence that doesn't suit them - then they will always end up with the result they want.

It was by using those very 'tactics' that Amaral built his case against the McCanns imo.

Fortunately, truly professional policemen who genuinely want to find the perpetrator of a crime and are not just looking for 'a result' - (regardless of who actually committed it) do not behave like that.   

AIMHO

How about those who believe every word uttered by the McCanns and their friends and ignore any evidence that casts doubt on their stories?

I don't rate a policeman as 'truly professional' who expects me to accept that an abduction occurred when all he offers by way of evidence is that the child concerned was too young to leave and start a new life.

[Brietta]

Forensics established early on that nobody entered by the bedroom window which set the scene for the investigation.  The police officers who answered the initial call and whom Kate McCann referred to as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in her book are on record as doubting abduction based on their observation of the parents.

In my opinion not nearly on a par with reports of what Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee were thinking about distraught crime victims ... as portrayed in Amaral's dramatisation of his book.

[stephen25000]

In my opinion not nearly on a par with reports of what Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee were thinking about distraught crime victims ... as portrayed in Amaral's dramatisation of his book.

So Brietta, do you think the prostrating behaviour exhibited by the McCann's was normal ?

What they should have been doing is searching for their daughter.

[Benice]

How about those who believe every word uttered by the McCanns and their friends and ignore any evidence that casts doubt on their stories?

I don't rate a policeman as 'truly professional' who expects me to accept that an abduction occurred when all he offers by way of evidence is that the child concerned was too young to leave and start a new life.

Mega nitpicking IMO.  A remark taken out of context to give it false importance, when it was obviously just a passing remark regarding missing people in general - and not meant to be taken as a deadly serious observation of the McCann case. 

Strange that sceptics who have turned this comment into something which it obviously isn't don't seem to have the same problem with those PT policemen who claimed that it was a 'dream' which changed the whole course of the McCann investigation.   How anyone can regard that as 'professional' is beyond my comprehension.

I have no reason to believe that the McCanns or their friends deliberately lied about anything that happened during their holiday in PDL which ended in tragedy.   What I don't expect is that they will all have identical and perfect memories of every minute of every day.      Fortunately, neither do truly professional policemen.

AIMHO

[Brietta]

They haven't investigated the McCann's.

They were off limits.

Have you forgotten why Sutton refused to take on OG ?

Is Sutton the one who was retired prior to Operation Grange starting up?

[Brietta]

Abduction is a belief, not a fact.

So tell me yet again Benice, why did they search the apartment after claiming abduction.

Personally, I think the claim of abduction is complete hogwash.

As to being thickos, well they left their children unattended and exposed to danger.

Amaral's beliefs were very non productive particularly as far as finding any clue as to what happened to Madeleine McCann and making an attempt to find a living child rather than a corpse.

But he managed neither.

The belief he writes about and promotes has no evidence to back it up and is disregarded by subsequent investigations.  What does that tell you?

[Brietta]

So Brietta, do you think the prostrating behaviour exhibited by the McCann's was normal ?

What they should have been doing is searching for their daughter.

That response is so beneath you Stephen, I'm not going to dignify it with an answer.

[slartibartfast]

That response is so beneath you Stephen, I'm not going to dignify it with an answer.

So do you think it was normal?

[Brietta]

So do you think it was normal?

I'm certainly not going to dignify that with an answer.

Isn't it your job to be keeping the thread on track rather than fomenting discord?  What did Danny Collins have to say about it in "Vanished"?

[stephen25000]

Is Sutton the one who was retired prior to Operation Grange starting up?

Mr. Sutton has been discussed extensively.

He was offered the post..

He refused because the Mccanns would be off limits

[Angelo222]

No.

The open window and shutters were the main reason why the McCanns knew their daughter had been abducted. 

It has been claimed that they were 'staged'.   However if that was true then the one thing the McCanns would have done would have been to make sure they stayed open for the police or other independent witnesses to see this compelling evidence which they had apparently dreamed up to prove abduction.

They didn't do that - and so IMO by closing them, it proved that either the McCanns are as thick as pudding and stupidly ruined their own cunning master plan - or that they were telling the truth and closed them to protect the twins from the cold breeze.   AFAIAC - the McCanns are not a pair of thickos.
IMO

 

On the other hand they needed a reason for having their dibs on the window.