Where were Jez and Gerry standing when they did their talking? Ideas solutions

[G-Unit]

So what conclusion have you come to?

That the men spoke on the same side of the road as the Tapas entrance and they met near to the gate to 5A's garden and not at the entrance to the alleyway.

[Alice Purjorick]

Totally agree.   One outcome of poring over every word and going into the minutiae of every single thing is that you end up not being able to see the wood for the trees. IMO

Different people have different ideas of time and distances.  One person's 10ft is another person's 20ft.  One person's 5 mins is another person's 10 mins.

Expecting three people to come up with identical descriptions of everything they remembered is totally unrealistic IMO.

Fortunately the people who do matter - i.e. the professional policemen investigating this case are well aware of that.

AIMHO

Sh*t! all those friggin' years I spent wasting my time studying metrology when really one makes it all up as one goes along. Except in the real world.
How big is a cubit anyway?
About 12 inches plus 150mm I expect.
 

[Robittybob1]

I'll ask the same question again as I did about 5 hours ago "Could you all think of the initial situation when Jez first saw Gerry, was he uphill or downhill of Gerry?  We have some idea where they met and talked but where were they when they first saw each other to walk toward each other.  Or do you think one stood still and the other do the walking.

Downhill is towards the Tapas reception entrance.
Uphill is toward the top road." 

You all have some idea where they ended up but where did they both start of from?  I think we must agree that Gerry started at the side gate,  or is even that not accepted by some?  Where were they when they first saw each other in relation to the side gate?

[Robittybob1]

I don't think I have said  they end up uphill of the gate'. Jane Tanner said that, not me. I have said that they did not speak at the entrance to the alleyway. Jes Wilkins made that quite clear.

Well have you put those distances you gave into google Earth to see where they are in relation to the gate?

You told us "So Jes was either 22 meters from the top of the road and 11 meters from the pathway or he was 24 meters from the top of the road and 8 meters from the pathway. Either way, he was very close to the gate."
The only correction I suggested to that was it isn't or but between as in "So Jes was Between 22 meters from the top of the road and 11 meters from the pathway or he was 24 meters from the top of the road and 8 meters from the pathway. Either way, he was very close to the gate."
i.e. he was somewhere between the Upper and lower estimates.

[Robittybob1]

22 meters has them outside the lounge window. ie uphill of the gate.
24  meters has them just alongside the 5A patio still just uphill of the gate.

In between these two all intermediate distances are to places that are uphill of the gate.

[faithlilly]

Can you please show me where Gerry says that he was standing uphill from 5A gate?

Cos I think it is a bad translation, and what he said was he was standing uphill from the Tapas Reception door.  There is so much in the files and various videos to disprove that

Can someone who speaks portuguese please confirm whether the same word is used in portugal for door as for gate.

Door-porta, gate- portão.

[Robittybob1]

Can you please show me where Gerry says that he was standing uphill from 5A gate?

Cos I think it is a bad translation, and what he said was he was standing uphill from the Tapas Reception door.  There is so much in the files and various videos to disprove that

Can someone who speaks portuguese please confirm whether the same word is used in portugal for door as for gate.

So you agree it is in the joint time line statement.  I gave the exact wording from that document and there was no translation of it required. 
I'll copy iy again "2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed. "

That is clear as mud, they were outside the gate.  i.e not in the in the stairwell area but on the public area.
"The two were standing just up the hill from the gate" - uphill means they were North of the actual gate.

I have posted Gerry's descriptions to I believe but I'll do it again just to be sure.

[Robittybob1]

10th of May Gerry states "----- After going through the side gate, and while on his way to the secondary reception entrance, less than 10 metres from the gate, he saw JEZ coming up the street on the opposite pavement bring with him a baby carriage with his youngest child. He crossed the road in JEZ's direction who would come up on the right-hand side [when viewed] from the ascending direction,"

That statement does make it sound as if Gerry was heading to the secondary reception.  But this is one of those twice translated statements.  But it still reads very very much like  Gerry is walking downhill and Jez is coming uphill.
Maybe Gerry does something in between "going through the side gate", and "while on his way to the secondary reception entrance"? Did Gerry check something out?  Did he take several paces up hill before he sees Jez?  He is checking the kids and the door had moved inside for no reason, he might have been a little on edge, we don't know how Gerry was really feeling at the time.  I think I'd be wondering if there were people hanging around my kids.
I noticed the other day there is a little step in the exterior wall of the apartment.  Did Gerry go and check that no one was hiding behind the wall?


For how can he be uphill of the gate, as per the agreed timeline, if he only walked downhill after leaving the gate?

[jassi]

10th of May Gerry states "----- After going through the side gate, and while on his way to the secondary reception entrance, less than 10 metres from the gate, he saw JEZ coming up the street on the opposite pavement bring with him a baby carriage with his youngest child. He crossed the road in JEZ's direction who would come up on the right-hand side [when viewed] from the ascending direction,"

That statement does make it sound as if Gerry was heading to the secondary reception.  But this is one of those twice translated statements.  But it still reads very very much like  Gerry is walking downhill and Jez is coming uphill.
Maybe Gerry does something in between "going through the side gate", and "while on his way to the secondary reception entrance"? Did Gerry check something out?  Did he take several paces up hill before he sees Jez?  He is checking the kids and the door had moved inside for no reason, he might have been a little on edge, we don't know how Gerry was really feeling at the time.  I think I'd be wondering if there were people hanging around my kids.
I noticed the other day there is a little step in the exterior wall of the apartment.  Di Gerry go and check that no one was hiding behind the wall?


For how can he be uphill of the gate, as per the agreed timeline, if he only walked downhill after leaving the gate?

Because he didn't come out of the gate ?   ( note that is question, not a statement)

[Robittybob1]

Because he didn't come out of the gate ?   ( note that is question, not a statement)

Is it because he didn't come out of the gate?  Good question. 

Where else could he have come from considering Jez has a good view of the street?  It doesn't say Jez saw Gerry coming from the intersection.  Could he have come out of the alleyway but that would be even closer to Jez so he should have been able to see that better.

[jassi]

Is it because he didn't come out of the gate?  Good question. 

Where else could he have come from considering Jez has a good view of the street?  It doesn't say Jez saw Gerry coming from the intersection.  Could he have come out of the alleyway but that would be even closer to Jez so he should have been able to see that better.

It was dark. Jez may not have been paying much attention to his surroundings until Gerry was fairly close and didn't notice where he appeared from.
As he didn't see Jane at all, maybe he is not a very observant person.

Assuming that he had been into 5A he could only exit from the stairway or from the front door.
Coming down hill from the front door would be in keeping with meeting Jez just uphill of the stairway.

[Alice Purjorick]

I'll ask the same question again as I did about 5 hours ago "Could you all think of the initial situation when Jez first saw Gerry, was he uphill or downhill of Gerry?  We have some idea where they met and talked but where were they when they first saw each other to walk toward each other.  Or do you think one stood still and the other do the walking.

Downhill is towards the Tapas reception entrance.
Uphill is toward the top road." 

You all have some idea where they ended up but where did they both start of from.  I think we must agree that Gerry started at the side gate,  or is that even not accepted by some.  Where were they when they first saw each other in relation to the side gate?

Why don't you plot it all out ? There is sufficient info to be able to do so.

[G-Unit]

I'll ask the same question again as I did about 5 hours ago "Could you all think of the initial situation when Jez first saw Gerry, was he uphill or downhill of Gerry?  We have some idea where they met and talked but where were they when they first saw each other to walk toward each other.  Or do you think one stood still and the other do the walking.

Downhill is towards the Tapas reception entrance.
Uphill is toward the top road." 

You all have some idea where they ended up but where did they both start of from.  I think we must agree that Gerry started at the side gate,  or is that even not accepted by some.  Where were they when they first saw each other in relation to the side gate?

I think you are asking questions which can't be answered by looking at the evidence we have access to. Jes knew that the McCanns were leaving their children because Gerry told him. I can think of no reason why he would know that they were leaving the patio doors open though. Therefore he had no reason to assume that Gerry came out of the garden gate. All in all, the only conclusion possible is that they met and spoke near the gate imo. In his first statement he says;

I came out at the top road.

I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

His second statement;

He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left.....As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry's back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10-15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

[Robittybob1]

Why don't you plot it all out ? There is sufficient info to be able to do so.

Plot it on what?  I don't know how to do graphics like that?  Good idea though.
I'm convinced now Jez was downhill from Gerry to start with, but they still end up uphill of the gate when Jez bumps into Gerry.

[Alice Purjorick]

Plot it on what? I don't know how to do graphics like that?  Good idea though.
I'm convinced now Jez was downhill from Gerry to start with, but they still end up uphill of the gate when Jez bumps into Gerry.

Do it the old fashioned way. Drafting paper, pencils, squares and compasses or compi if you prefer.
A3 will give a decent enough scale for this.