Where were Jez and Gerry standing when they did their talking? Ideas solutions

[Brietta]

LP sent out 599 questionnaires which were presumably to all UK/Eire holidaymakers who were known to be in Luz on 3/5/07.
Every MW guest who arrived on 28/4/07 was booked in to leave on 5/5/07. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARRIVALS.htm Lists 1-7

If they went to the bother of carrying out that diligence when memories were still fresh, it would be for the purpose of sending any relevant information gathered as a result back to the PJ in Portugal to action as they (LP) could do nothing with it.

[Robittybob1]

I don't think the family were spoken with at the time based on the knowledge that many obvious contacts were ignored ... for example the residents of block five who were in residence the night Madeleine disappeared.

It all appears to have been very haphazard.  Bridget O'Donnell who was in Block 4 was interviewed.  She said  "Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

The thought occurs was that a systematic routine visit ... or was it as a result of Jes Wilkin's meeting with Gerry?

I'd love to know how they got hold of a copy of Madeleine's photo.   Was it one of the posters with the writing on it?  It would seem odd the PJ didn't recognise it if it was obviously a poster for Madeleine.

[Eleanor]

I'd love to know how they got hold of a copy of Madeleine's photo.   Was it one of the posters with the writing on it?  It would seem odd the PJ didn't recognise it if it was obviously a poster for Madeleine.

A very good point.

[Robittybob1]

A very good point.

When Matt and John Hill called in at 1:00 AM they might have got one hot off the press then.   But why them?

[slartibartfast]

If they went to the bother of carrying out that diligence when memories were still fresh, it would be for the purpose of sending any relevant information gathered as a result back to the PJ in Portugal to action as they (LP) could do nothing with it.

Do you have some cite for that or is it just an opinion? If you have a cite please post it.

[Brietta]

Do you have some cite for that or is it just an opinion? If you have a cite please post it.

A cite for what exactly?

• That Leicestershire police sent out questionnaires to all British and Eire holidaymakers known to have been in the resort when Madeleine disappeared?
  
  Bungling police had the details of the “main suspect” in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for SIX YEARS without realising.
  
  The innocent dad came forward in 2007 to say he was the person seen carrying a child in Portugal at the time the three-year-old vanished. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027
  
  Snip: As I understand it the PJ worked on information given to them by the Ocean Club.
  They spoke to or, if necessary, interviewed the staff on the lists they were given.
  I think Leicestershire Police took on the job of finding UK holidaymakers. Didn't they send out questionnaires? I haven't seen anything about holidaymakers from other countries. Were there any?
  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7977.msg388009#msg388009
• Or that it was carried out as part of liaison with the Portuguese.  Bearing in mind LP had no jurisdiction in this case and as we have seen from comment elsewhere from the Chief Constable Matt Baggott they were punctilious in observation of that?
  
  Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

[slartibartfast]

A cite for what exactly?

• That Leicestershire police sent out questionnaires to all British and Eire holidaymakers known to have been in the resort when Madeleine disappeared?
  
  Bungling police had the details of the “main suspect” in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for SIX YEARS without realising.
  
  The innocent dad came forward in 2007 to say he was the person seen carrying a child in Portugal at the time the three-year-old vanished. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027
  
  Snip: As I understand it the PJ worked on information given to them by the Ocean Club.
  They spoke to or, if necessary, interviewed the staff on the lists they were given.
  I think Leicestershire Police took on the job of finding UK holidaymakers. Didn't they send out questionnaires? I haven't seen anything about holidaymakers from other countries. Were there any?
  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7977.msg388009#msg388009
• Or that it was carried out as part of liaison with the Portuguese.  Bearing in mind LP had no jurisdiction in this case and as we have seen from comment elsewhere from the Chief Constable Matt Baggott they were punctilious in observation of that?
  
  Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

So we know LP sent out questionnaires. Did they check the information gathered and sent what they thought was relevant? Did they send it all? Did they send none? Was it only unearthed when OG started? Were LP the bungling Police?

All supposition unless you have cites.

[barrier]

So we know LP sent out questionnaires. Did they check the information gathered and sent what they thought was relevant? Did they send it all? Did they send none? Was it only unearthed when OG started? Were LP the bungling Police?

All supposition unless you have cites.

It doesn't even say in Op task debrief what happened to those questionnaires.

[G-Unit]

So we know LP sent out questionnaires. Did they check the information gathered and sent what they thought was relevant? Did they send it all? Did they send none? Was it only unearthed when OG started? Were LP the bungling Police?

All supposition unless you have cites.

We also know that LP were able to access the questionnaires, because we have two examples of them doing that. If the PJ had the questionnaires LP would have no need to tell them what they said imo.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm

Jane TANNER's Questionnaire states that she returned to the UK from Praia Da Luz on 17th May 2007. The Additional Family Member Questionnaire, for Russell O'BRIEN, gives his height as 6'6".
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ASSORTED_SIGHTINGS_6.htm

[barrier]

We also know that LP were able to access the questionnaires, because we have two examples of them doing that. If the PJ had the questionnaires LP would have no need to tell them what they said imo.

One would hope so,they sent them out.

[G-Unit]

I wonder why Jes Wilkins refused to put a time on his meeting with Gerry? He stuck to a large window of opportunity from 8.45 to 9.15.

On 4th May he approaches the police and tells them;

yesterday, between 8.30 and 9pm, while he was in the "TAPAS" restaurant

On 7th May he says;

I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

So within three days he has gone from being in the restaurant to being nowhere near it.

On 5th November;

He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

So was he in the restaurant, near the bar or in the bar?

[Robittybob1]

Even though Jez is uncertain with his times, and Gerry less uncertain, it is Jane that gives the timing to the meeting between Gerry and Jez that she saw.  It was a short visit to the apartment and quickly back for mains.  She leaves after Gerry and arrives back after Gerry, Gerry and Jez are no longer on the road when she returns.
It doesn't matter if there were more than one meeting between Gerry and Jez during at least one of them Jane walked past and they say they didn't see her.  But we don't have Jane saying she saw them meeting up for the first time. 

The bit that is getting me is the piece where Jane says, something like, "if I was going to say something it was going to be about Kate moaning about you were taking a long time."  So if Kate was complaining how long had he been away?
Are we then having to think Jane's check has to be commenced at least 10 minutes after the Gerry left other wise there was nothing for Kate to complain about.
So this makes it possible for Gerry and Jez to meet up more than once during time, Jez describing the first time he met Gerry but Jane seeing them talk during the second meeting.

I have often wondered why in off the official record the Wilkins have encouraged a longer meeting time between Gerry and Jez.
Was this to give Gerry an alibi or to give them both an alibi.

I have a cite to help me on this one!
"Wilkins — seen outside his north west London home — was the man heart surgeon Gerry McCann, 38, spoke with for up to 15 minutes outside the holiday apartments — moments after checking on his children for the last time."
I research that in this thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8141.msg400826#msg400826

In the first meeting it was only for a few minutes.  Wilkins Rogatory "Q. Relative to the time we conversed;
I am more certain of this than I am of our relative positions.
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes."

I have looked at this before but never realised Jez was introducing the possibility of two meetings?

[Robittybob1]

From the archiving report "E - About the Interest of the Reconstitution
....
1 - The physical, real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the first person walked by them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, in our perspective, strange that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the exiguity of the space and the peacefulness of the area;"

[John]

From the archiving report "E - About the Interest of the Reconstitution
....
1 - The physical, real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the first person walked by them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, in our perspective, strange that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the exiguity of the space and the peacefulness of the area;"

Detailed examination of all the statements reveals that Gerry and Jez chatted just yards down from the gate to 5a.

Amaral claimed that Jane might have seen the men chatting when she exited the tapas mini reception but turned left into the walkway so never passed them thus explaining why they never saw her.  Could it be that it was later that she saw a man carrying a child in his arms but due to the wine and all the confusion unintenionally created a false memory of the event?

To be honest, we have looked at this previously and in some detail. The possibility that she would have been able to pass so close by the two men completely unseen would appear very remote.

[Robittybob1]

Amaral claimed that Jane might have seen the men chatting when she exited the tapas mini reception but turned left into the walkway so never passed them thus explaining why they never saw her.  Could it be that it was later that she saw a man carrying a child in his arms but due to all the confusion unintenionally created a false memory of the event?

To be honest, we have looked at this previously and in some detail.   The possibility that she would have been able to pass by the two men completely unseen would appear very remote.

That is a possibility but the only real  reason Jane would have done that is if she was too embarrassed to walked up past the men.  Everyone had been having Jane on later about having to relieve Russell (sexual connotation, hence possible embarrassment).  But I don't think this joke had started at this time.

Jane still had to go around to her locked front door so I don't see the advantage of taking the alleyway.