Author Topic: Where were Jez and Gerry standing when they did their talking? Ideas solutions  (Read 102530 times)

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Offline puglove

Like a rocket shot to a ship ashore

The lean red bolt of his body tore

...that's poetry's

The last short burst upon falling feet.....
There life lay waiting, so sweet, so sweet,
Rest in a darkness, balm for aches......

The earth was stopped. It was barred with stakes.


 *&^^&     %56&
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Robittybob1

The last short burst upon falling feet.....
There life lay waiting, so sweet, so sweet,
Rest in a darkness, balm for aches......

The earth was stopped. It was barred with stakes.


 *&^^&     %56&
He needs to dive between the wires,
pull some staples with his pliers.
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Offline Mr Gray

The last short burst upon falling feet.....
There life lay waiting, so sweet, so sweet,
Rest in a darkness, balm for aches......

The earth was stopped. It was barred with stakes.


 *&^^&     %56&

thats where it ends in the version we read at school....but in the full version he escapes

Offline sadie

Can you recognise someone just from peripheral vision?

Looking it up https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/put-your-peripheral-vision-to-the-test/

"Observations and results
You probably quickly observed something appearing in your side view but perhaps you could only later tell the color, and after that identify the shape.

Our peripheral vision is quick at detecting that something enters our field of sight but it is weak at distinguishing color, shape or detail. This is because fewer and different cells in our eyes and brains are activated when seeing an object with our peripheral vision than when “seeing” the object with our central vision."
Assuming the likely situation that Gerry and Jez were more or less square with each other and at right angles with the road, Jane was definitely beyond Gerrys periferal vision
 
At nearest she was more than 90* to the way that Gerrys eyes were focusing and when passing him was at 180* and totally out of sight, right at the back of Gerry.

Heribert Janosch posted a diagram showing periferal vision and that was about 45* either side of the way that the eyes were focussing, from memory.

No way would Gerry have seen Jane at any point of her walk up the road.

It is so far beyond the realms of possibility that we shouldn't even be questioning why Gerry didn't see Jane IMO because through out her walk, she was always beyond his periferal vision.

Offline Robittybob1

Assuming the likely situation that Gerry and Jez were more or less square with each other and at right angles with the road, Jane was definitely beyond Gerrys periferal vision
 
At nearest she was more than 90* to the way that Gerrys eyes were focusing and when passing him was at 180* and totally out of sight, right at the back of Gerry.

Heribert Janosch posted a diagram showing periferal vision and that was about 45* either side of the way that the eyes were focussing, from memory.

No way would Gerry have seen Jane at any point of her walk up the road.

It is so far beyond the realms of possibility that we shouldn't even be questioning why Gerry didn't see Jane IMO because through out her walk, she was always beyond his periferal vision.
I would wonder if that is the true case Sadie.  Would someone be so rigid in their stance that they didn't even turn their head or body just a little?    If you had your head in a neck brace then you are restricted otherwise a person moves often and would be liable to catch glimpses in their peripheral vision.

I was a bit like this after my car verses train accident! https://youtu.be/eFq_3hoI6wA
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 02:25:43 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Imagine the men facing each other and gazing straight ahead like the man in the frame. They each have a 180 degree arc which their vision covers, so imagine a straight line joining each man's eyes and extending beyond to each side. That's their field of vision.

Gerry's field of vision, if he's standing on the edge of the path facing the road and looking straight ahead, will not cover the actual path. If he moves his head slightly in either direction his field of vision will then include the path to his right or left. He could indeed miss seeing Jane, but hearing is anther matter.

Jes's field of vision covers the path from the Tapas entrance to the top of the road. It would be highly unlikely that he could miss seeing Jane, as he testified.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 07:13:48 PM by John »
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Offline Robittybob1

Imagine the men facing each other and gazing straight ahead like the man in the frame. They each have a 180 degree arc which their vision covers, so imagine a straight line joining each man's eyes and extending beyond to each side. That's their field of vision.

Gerry's field of vision, if he's standing on the edge of the path facing the road and looking straight ahead, will not cover the actual path. If he moves his head slightly in either direction his field of vision will then include the path to his right or left. He could indeed miss seeing Jane, but hearing is anther matter.

Jes's field of vision covers the path from the Tapas entrance to the top of the road. It would be highly unlikely that he could miss seeing Jane, as he testified.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9105.msg444448#msg444448  You could end up with a contradiction.
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Offline sadie

I would wonder if that is the true case Sadie.  Would someone be so rigid in their stance that they didn't even turn their head or body just a little?    If you had your head in a neck brace then you are restricted otherwise a person moves often and would be liable to catch glimpses in their peripheral vision.

I was a bit like this after my car verses train accident! https://youtu.be/eFq_3hoI6wA
I think that youi are making excuses Rob.  It is quite obvious that Gerry could not see Jane if for all the distance she walked, she was more than 90* from his central line of vision.

Gerry is not a fish or bird, now they have eyes on both sides of their heads.  Gerry, like you and me cannot see anything that goes on behind him, both his and our eyes are at the front and his periferal vision is only about 45* - 50* on either side of his central line of vision.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Imagine the men facing each other and gazing straight ahead like the man in the frame. They each have a 180 degree arc which their vision covers, so imagine a straight line joining each man's eyes and extending beyond to each side. That's their field of vision.

Gerry's field of vision, if he's standing on the edge of the path facing the road and looking straight ahead, will not cover the actual path. If he moves his head slightly in either direction his field of vision will then include the path to his right or left. He could indeed miss seeing Jane, but hearing is anther matter.

Jes's field of vision covers the path from the Tapas entrance to the top of the road. It would be highly unlikely that he could miss seeing Jane, as he testified.
Whichever side of the road this alleged meeting took place, one or t'other or both of the men should have seen her or heard her, no matter how engrossed they both were.

Now it's choices.

Did this alleged event not happen?

Or

Was Jane Tanner walking by simply not important enough to register on one or both men's memories?
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Whichever side of the road this alleged meeting took place, one or t'other or both of the men should have seen her or heard her, no matter how engrossed they both were.

Now it's choices.

Did this alleged event not happen?

Or

Was Jane Tanner walking by simply not important enough to register on one or both men's memories?

Jes himself saw it as highly unlikely that he wouldn't have seen her. He remembered seeing her earlier for no reason, so why would he forget if he saw her again? It's possible, but unlikely imo.
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Offline misty

Jes himself saw it as highly unlikely that he wouldn't have seen her. He remembered seeing her earlier for no reason, so why would he forget if he saw her again? It's possible, but unlikely imo.

It was daylight on the first occasion Jez saw Jane that night, he had no distractions & hadn't spent 45m walking around pushing a pushchair.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Were either of them on tankers in The Merch?
The 1000 yard stare..............................
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline ShiningInLuz

Jes himself saw it as highly unlikely that he wouldn't have seen her. He remembered seeing her earlier for no reason, so why would he forget if he saw her again? It's possible, but unlikely imo.
The single fly in my ointment is that it appears Jes and Jane had played tennis together.  I believe this is in one of Jane's statements or Jes'.

However, I still don't see it as important.

One's brain is purpose built to dump irrelevant trivia.  Please don't ask me for a cite,  I did all the research perhaps 10 years ago, and AFAIK, it is still on blogspot.

There are many reasons I was interested in this.  Let me pick one example.  Memory.  (An important part of learning).

To memorise something, step 1 is to focus on it 100% for 6 or more seconds.  That gets it from your frontal cortex to the rear of your brain.

Step 2 is to go to sleep, without filling up your brain with alcohol, medicinal compounds, or simply more important or exiting things.  The rear of your brain is akin to a cup.  Once it is full, when you pour more in, something has to come out.  That's why it is tough to learn if you have late-night parties, play interactive X Box games to the small hours, or watch TV dramas after the news.

Step 3.  Sleep.  Your brain physically rebuilds and alters itself if you sleep properly.  A simple cheat is to have a siesta long enough to dream.  That is your brain doing the work of moving information from short term storage in the rear of your brain to permanent storage in your bonce.

This is a very long winded way of saying I can't see why this encounter should have been misremembered, in any significant way.

Speculation.  Gerry does not see Jane, so he does not remember the details.  Jes sees Jane, but it does not occupy his focus for long enough to sink in.  Then he goes to sleep, and is woken up on early 4 May and cannot remember a man with child in his arms.

I see nothing odd here.
What's up, old man?

Offline misty

Were either of them on tankers in The Merch?
The 1000 yard stare..............................

Sleep deprivation when on holiday with a nocturnal baby can make you a bit shell-shocked.

Offline G-Unit

The single fly in my ointment is that it appears Jes and Jane had played tennis together.  I believe this is in one of Jane's statements or Jes'.

However, I still don't see it as important.

One's brain is purpose built to dump irrelevant trivia.  Please don't ask me for a cite,  I did all the research perhaps 10 years ago, and AFAIK, it is still on blogspot.

There are many reasons I was interested in this.  Let me pick one example.  Memory.  (An important part of learning).

To memorise something, step 1 is to focus on it 100% for 6 or more seconds.  That gets it from your frontal cortex to the rear of your brain.

Step 2 is to go to sleep, without filling up your brain with alcohol, medicinal compounds, or simply more important or exiting things.  The rear of your brain is akin to a cup.  Once it is full, when you pour more in, something has to come out.  That's why it is tough to learn if you have late-night parties, play interactive X Box games to the small hours, or watch TV dramas after the news.

Step 3.  Sleep.  Your brain physically rebuilds and alters itself if you sleep properly.  A simple cheat is to have a siesta long enough to dream.  That is your brain doing the work of moving information from short term storage in the rear of your brain to permanent storage in your bonce.

This is a very long winded way of saying I can't see why this encounter should have been misremembered, in any significant way.

Speculation.  Gerry does not see Jane, so he does not remember the details.  Jes sees Jane, but it does not occupy his focus for long enough to sink in.  Then he goes to sleep, and is woken up on early 4 May and cannot remember a man with child in his arms.

I see nothing odd here.

I remember cramming fr exams and quite literally filling up my brain and emptying it out again in the exam. All of us can only speculate about this Jane/Jes/Gerry encounter but my opinion matches Jes's. I think it's highly unlikely that Jane could pass unnoticed.
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