UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Myster on February 12, 2020, 06:37:11 AM
-
And now the end is near, as they face the final curtain,
They did what they had to do and told the truth of that I'm certain.
The first person to spot CAL in the courtroom scene wins a luxury two-week stay in the cell next door to Trudi's bestie, plus a free plastic tumbler* to eavesdrop on his clandestine conversations.
* Biodegradable and environmentally-friendly, as approved by school truant, Greta Thunderbird.
-
Allegedly Brett Collins put in an appearance on the ITV news programme "This Morning, this morning
-
Allegedly Brett Collins put in an appearance on the ITV news programme "This Morning, this morning
"This Morning" only starts at 10:00 am. You'll have to watch him on ITV ketchup's "Good Morning Britain" which starts earlier if it's streamed in a day or two...
https://www.itv.com/hub/good-morning-britain/2a3211a2718 (https://www.itv.com/hub/good-morning-britain/2a3211a2718)
-
"This Morning" only starts at 10:00 am. You'll have to watch him on ITV ketchup's "Good Morning Britain" which starts earlier if it's streamed in a day or two...
https://www.itv.com/hub/good-morning-britain/2a3211a2718 (https://www.itv.com/hub/good-morning-britain/2a3211a2718)
Thanks Myster. In which case, before the whole forum glues themselves to the screen, it must have been the programme which prededed it. I don't watch it. All gossip and waffle!!!
-
Least no one can try and say it wasn't him who gave the newspaper interview. @)(++(*
-
Thanks Myster. In which case, before the whole forum glues themselves to the screen, it must have been the programme which prededed it. I don't watch it. All gossip and waffle!!!
He failed to show up! 8(8-))
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10945697/good-morning-britain-fans-furious-ruin-ending-white-house-farm/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10945697/good-morning-britain-fans-furious-ruin-ending-white-house-farm/)
-
He failed to show up! 8(8-))
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10945697/good-morning-britain-fans-furious-ruin-ending-white-house-farm/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10945697/good-morning-britain-fans-furious-ruin-ending-white-house-farm/)
It seems many viewers were still undecided who dunnit!
-
It seems many viewers were still undecided who dunnit!
Millennials who haven't got a clue.
-
How did they portray the murder? did they have him wearing his wet suit? and did he ride Junes bike there?
Two of the things I could never make my mind up on
-
I look forward to part 2!
-
How did they portray the murder? did they have him wearing his wet suit? and did he ride Junes bike there?
Two of the things I could never make my mind up on
They didn’t show any re-enaction of the murders. I’m glad in a way as it left the audience to make up their own minds.
JB has always protested his innocence and so you have people believing him. It would be rare for some people not to support his assertions that he is innocent given how long he has been saying this.
I think he is guilty but given that case against him was largely circumstantial it’s understandable that some people will feel disquiet over his conviction.
-
I thought it was brilliant. Okay, I KNOW it wasn't strictly factual, but they do make that clear at the start. I particularly like that they haven't tried to sanitize Julie simply because she came good in the end. The wonderful little cameo between her and 'big Jones' swept away any thoughts the audience may have had about her being pure as the driven. She gave a wonderful performance of guilt, defiance, anger and greed. If the actor portrayed anything like what Julie went through, I'm inclined to think she may have deserved £25,000 worth of revenge. Poor Jones appeared to have been left wondering.
-
White House Farm review — a masterful portrait of a cold, arrogant killer
“White House Farm has maintained its high quality throughout, but you may, like me, think that as a six-parter it was one episode too long, last week’s seeming padded out. But, fair do’s, this was a masterful finale in which Jeremy Bamber’s momentary flippancy exposed to the jury his cold arrogance. As Bamber, Freddie Fox hardly put a foot wrong, managing to be revealing and inscrutable, which can’t be easy. (more behind paywall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/times2/white-house-farm-review-a-masterful-portrait-of-a-cold-arrogant-killer-twd0r2s85
-
They didn’t show any re-enaction of the murders. I’m glad in a way as it left the audience to make up their own minds.
JB has always protested his innocence and so you have people believing him. It would be rare for some people not to support his assertions that he is innocent given how long he has been saying this.
I think he is guilty but given that case against him was largely circumstantial it’s understandable that some people will feel disquiet over his conviction.
The drama constantly showed characters inside WHF, photos of the deceased at WHF. The phone calls to Julie pre and post massacre. Stan Jones even discussed the massacre inside WHF.
The drama was certainly pro guilt. Only Taff saying it was Sheila but looking like an idiot.
However Colin Caffell did not want any shooting. So a once in 35+ year opportunity was missed.
-
The final scenes of part 6 could have been of everyone asleep inside WHF.
Then Bamber getting in through the bathroom window, picking up the rifle, bracing himself then going upstairs.
Chilling but that is what happened.
-
I thought it was brilliant. Okay, I KNOW it wasn't strictly factual, but they do make that clear at the start. I particularly like that they haven't tried to sanitize Julie simply because she came good in the end. The wonderful little cameo between her and 'big Jones' swept away any thoughts the audience may have had about her being pure as the driven. She gave a wonderful performance of guilt, defiance, anger and greed. If the actor portrayed anything like what Julie went through, I'm inclined to think she may have deserved £25,000 worth of revenge. Poor Jones appeared to have been left wondering.
... and ended up living in accomodation worse than her boyfriend's... What a dump!!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Nobody has scooped first prize in the comp yet, but entries are still being accepted...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Was the court scene an accurate portrayal where Bamber was asked how his father sounded after suffering four gun shot wounds,Bamber said like my father I guess or words to that effect.Then a telephone directory was shown which Bamber was asked to look at where under the number for the local police station it showed in an emergency dial 999!!!.Clearly there wasn't one.
-
Was the court scene an accurate portrayal where Bamber was asked how his father sounded after suffering four gun shot wounds,Bamber said like my father I guess or words to that effect.Then a telephone directory was shown which Bamber was asked to look at where under the number for the local police station it showed in an emergency dial 999!!!.Clearly there wasn't one.
Unfortunately we don't have the full trial transcript, and CAL makes no mention of him being handed a directory to read from...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
The nine or ten fateful words...
https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2020021384706/white-house-farm-fans-think-this-is-moment-jeremy-bamber-admits-his-guilt/ (https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2020021384706/white-house-farm-fans-think-this-is-moment-jeremy-bamber-admits-his-guilt/)
-
Nobody has scooped first prize in the comp yet, but entries are still being accepted...
Please could Roch on blue have a special prize for talking about fanny flaps? He's made me cry with laughter!
8@??)(
-
Nobody has scooped first prize in the comp yet, but entries are still being accepted...
Swoon. I didn't realise what a sweet and pretty thing the dear Carol Ann Lee is, like a young June Whitfield.
-
Waa-Heyyy!!! I won the competition! CAL from the rear, sitting bottom right wearing a black cardigan.
Wonder if she'll swop two weeks in a smelly Wakefield cell for a slap-up champagne meal for two in a sophisticated Leeds eatery?...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Please could Roch on blue have a special prize for talking about fanny flaps? He's made me cry with laughter!
8@??)(
I feel sorry for young David. Not only inexperienced, lacking in critical thought and wrong about Bamber... but handicapped by lisp as well!
-
“The White House Farm Murders were the subject of an excellent recent dramatisation by ITV, and are still currently on the ITV hub.
Bamber appealed his conviction in 1989, and again in 2002 on a referral by the Criminal Cases Review Commission which saw this august organisation go to extraordinary lengths to give him a further day in court. Originally, there was one ground of appeal, relating to supposedly new forensic evidence, but by the time it reached the Court Of Appeal, it had been expanded to 16 grounds. Lord Justice Kay and his two brother judges were not happy with this. Their judgment runs to 522 paragraphs, and dismisses Bamber’s application as totally without merit.
The ITV dramatisation does not cover this, ending with Bamber’s conviction; his post-conviction antics from behind the walls of a high security prison could easily fill another six episodes because, for some unfathomable reason, he has attracted a small army of not simply the usual demented women who are fascinated by monsters like him, but of a number of men who are clearly not attracted to him sexually. Collectively they are known as bamberettes, and have not been shy about spreading the most absurd lies about the case. Thankfully though, there are a lot more people who know the truth, and they are not shy about spreading it. They can be found at the Miscarriage Of Justice Forum.
https://www.verityweekly.com/murderers-old-and-new-in-the-news/
-
and ... and ended up living in accomodation worse than her boyfriend's... What a dump!!!
Not for long though as I understand she used the 25k proceeds from the NOTW deal to buy a flat.
-
“The White House Farm Murders were the subject of an excellent recent dramatisation by ITV, and are still currently on the ITV hub.
Bamber appealed his conviction in 1989, and again in 2002 on a referral by the Criminal Cases Review Commission which saw this august organisation go to extraordinary lengths to give him a further day in court. Originally, there was one ground of appeal, relating to supposedly new forensic evidence, but by the time it reached the Court Of Appeal, it had been expanded to 16 grounds. Lord Justice Kay and his two brother judges were not happy with this. Their judgment runs to 522 paragraphs, and dismisses Bamber’s application as totally without merit.
The ITV dramatisation does not cover this, ending with Bamber’s conviction; his post-conviction antics from behind the walls of a high security prison could easily fill another six episodes because, for some unfathomable reason, he has attracted a small army of not simply the usual demented women who are fascinated by monsters like him, but of a number of men who are clearly not attracted to him sexually. Collectively they are known as bamberettes, and have not been shy about spreading the most absurd lies about the case. Thankfully though, there are a lot more people who know the truth, and they are not shy about spreading it. They can be found at the Miscarriage Of Justice Forum.
https://www.verityweekly.com/murderers-old-and-new-in-the-news/
Thought the CCRC would have also been given 15 grounds.
Wonder what the one ground was that was submitted to the CCRC. Although the CCRC passed it to the COA, Bamber's team were not confident and added another 14.
The relatives were not happy when the CCRC passed the case to the COA.
-
“The White House Farm Murders were the subject of an excellent recent dramatisation by ITV, and are still currently on the ITV hub.
Bamber appealed his conviction in 1989, and again in 2002 on a referral by the Criminal Cases Review Commission which saw this august organisation go to extraordinary lengths to give him a further day in court. Originally, there was one ground of appeal, relating to supposedly new forensic evidence, but by the time it reached the Court Of Appeal, it had been expanded to 16 grounds. Lord Justice Kay and his two brother judges were not happy with this. Their judgment runs to 522 paragraphs, and dismisses Bamber’s application as totally without merit.
The ITV dramatisation does not cover this, ending with Bamber’s conviction; his post-conviction antics from behind the walls of a high security prison could easily fill another six episodes because, for some unfathomable reason, he has attracted a small army of not simply the usual demented women who are fascinated by monsters like him, but of a number of men who are clearly not attracted to him sexually. Collectively they are known as bamberettes, and have not been shy about spreading the most absurd lies about the case. Thankfully though, there are a lot more people who know the truth, and they are not shy about spreading it. They can be found at the Miscarriage Of Justice Forum.
https://www.verityweekly.com/murderers-old-and-new-in-the-news/
He is basically a cult leader now. His followers would still believe he is innocent even if he admitted it. "Hes just saying that to get out" they'd say.
-
He is basically a cult leader now. His followers would still believe he is innocent even if he admitted it. "Hes just saying that to get out" they'd say.
I don't consider JB a cult leader or myself a follower.
I've read most, if not all, the info in the public domain and this along with my own research leads me to conclude SC was responsible.
-
I don't consider JB a cult leader or myself a follower.
I've read most, if not all, the info in the public domain and this along with my own research leads me to conclude SC was responsible.
I wouldn't consider you a Bamberette - you aren't prepared to believe any old BS.
-
His followers would still believe he is innocent even if he admitted it.
Cognitive conceit (the self-belief of I’m never wrong)
As witnessed following the exposure of Simon Halls guilt
-
He is basically a cult leader now. His followers would still believe he is innocent even if he admitted it. "Hes just saying that to get out" they'd say.
Not in every case thankfully. As a former member of the blue forum I have to say that some so-called followers are open minded enough to look at all the evidence. There are many people who were once taken in by his charisma but who now utterly reject his claims. There are several lawyers among this group so it just goes to show how persuasive he can be in reality.
I will add that I also once thought him to be innocent purely on semantics but having gone into the case in great depth I can now see no other possibility other than the jury was correct to convict. It was a dreadful crime, to murder anyone in such a callous way, let alone two young children, took someone with a really damaged mindset.
-
I think he must have hated and resented Sheila just every bit as much as he allegedly despised his parents.
What he thought about the boys I can't imagine except that taking them out of the equation sorted any impediment between him and his inheritance.
I think Julie Mugford was one very lucky young lady not to have been added to his list at a later stage and I think she might have thought the same when he so obviously tired of her.
-
I think he must have hated and resented Sheila just every bit as much as he allegedly despised his parents.
What he thought about the boys I can't imagine except that taking them out of the equation sorted any impediment between him and his inheritance.
I think Julie Mugford was one very lucky young lady not to have been added to his list at a later stage and I think she might have thought the same when he so obviously tired of her.
I think that goes without saying. Sibling rivalry isn't uncommon generally. It's only about one sibling perceiving another as receiving the lion's share of whatever's going. In this case maybe he resented the thought of Sheila and her sons getting, free and grastis, that part of the inheritance he felt an entitlement to.
-
I think that goes without saying. Sibling rivalry isn't uncommon generally. It's only about one sibling perceiving another as receiving the lion's share of whatever's going. In this case maybe he resented the thought of Sheila and her sons getting, free and grastis, that part of the inheritance he felt an entitlement to.
The thing that got me about it was when the father described Bamber running past him on the stair with his hair spiked up with soap mimicking a photograph taken of the twins in the bath.
I think it would take a horrible type of mind set to mock children like that: it obviously wasn't enough to have robbed them of their lives but instead of showing the slightest remorse he appeared to be revelling in it.
-
The thing that got me about it was when the father described Bamber running past him on the stair with his hair spiked up with soap mimicking a photograph taken of the twins in the bath.
I think it would take a horrible type of mind set to mock children like that: it obviously wasn't enough to have robbed them of their lives but instead of showing the slightest remorse he appeared to be revelling in it.
The card on the flowers he sent for their funeral speaks volumes!
“Happiness on your travels, love to you both. Uncle Jeremy and Julie. If ever anyone needed proof of lack of empathy - look no further!
-
The thing that got me about it was when the father described Bamber running past him on the stair with his hair spiked up with soap mimicking a photograph taken of the twins in the bath.
I think it would take a horrible type of mind set to mock children like that: it obviously wasn't enough to have robbed them of their lives but instead of showing the slightest remorse he appeared to be revelling in it.
Lack of empathy was crystal clear when, rather than allowing Colin to take his time over which things of the boys he wanted, what Jeremy thought he might want was chucked, ignominiously, into black dustbin bags. It MAY have been that time was crucial, but he knew how to use a phone!!!!
-
The card on the flowers he sent for their funeral speaks volumes!
“Happiness on your travels, love to you both. Uncle Jeremy and Julie. If ever anyone needed proof of lack of empathy - look no further!
My heart breaks for those innocent wee boys. I didn't know about the card.
-
Lack of empathy was crystal clear when, rather than allowing Colin to take his time over which things of the boys he wanted, what Jeremy thought he might want was chucked, ignominiously, into black dustbin bags. It MAY have been that time was crucial, but he knew how to use a phone!!!!
Anyone who has been tasked with breaking up a home knows exactly how that feels. I found the portrayal of what he did at Sheila's flat callous in the extreme ... there must have been many precious mementos of the boys there Colin might have wanted to keep.
He should at least have been allowed the opportunity.
-
Anyone who has been tasked with breaking up a home knows exactly how that feels. I found the portrayal of what he did at Sheila's flat callous in the extreme ... there must have been many precious mementos of the boys there Colin might have wanted to keep.
He should at least have been allowed the opportunity.
It's a very private and intimate thing. Jeremy wasn't saving Colin's distress. He was denying him something precious.
-
It's a very private and intimate thing. Jeremy wasn't saving Colin's distress. He was denying him something precious.
Bamber comes over to me as a manipulative guy who has to be in control of everyone and everything around him. Perhaps he used his 'charisma' to that end but I think he just couldn't resist going out of his way to torture Colin for fun, as if the man hadn't suffered enough.
-
Bamber comes over to me as a manipulative guy who has to be in control of everyone and everything around him. Perhaps he used his 'charisma' to that end but I think he just couldn't resist going out of his way to torture Colin for fun, as if the man hadn't suffered enough.
I'm inclined to wonder if he harboured some deep seated resentment against Colin for how much he'd loved his boys?
-
I'm inclined to wonder if he harboured some deep seated resentment against Colin for how much he'd loved his boys?
From my recently acquired small knowledge of the background to the case I think he certainly seems to have treated Colin with a fine contempt.
I think the only person living that Jeremy Bamber didn't hold a deep seated resentment for is Jeremy Bamber.
-
From my recently acquired small knowledge of the background to the case I think he certainly seems to have treated Colin with a fine contempt.
I think the only person living that Jeremy Bamber didn't hold a deep seated resentment for is Jeremy Bamber.
Very succinctly said 8)--)) 8)--))
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/reasons-jeremy-bamber-maintains-innocent-3841125.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiP_66GkNjnAhURM8AKHQlxDyIQFjAhegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw2uZFv-1Tt3ep-PR5dhvjs-&cf=1
The reasons Bamber says he is innocent.
All very weak & suggested by Bamber. Nevill's call to the police being suggested 25 years later.
The silencer is not included.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/reasons-jeremy-bamber-maintains-innocent-3841125.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiP_66GkNjnAhURM8AKHQlxDyIQFjAhegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw2uZFv-1Tt3ep-PR5dhvjs-&cf=1
The reasons Bamber says he is innocent.
All very weak & suggested by Bamber. Nevill's call to the police being suggested 25 years later.
The silencer is not included.
ALL of those points have been debunked years ago, I can't believe they are dragging this stuff up again.
-
The thing that got me about it was when the father described Bamber running past him on the stair with his hair spiked up with soap mimicking a photograph taken of the twins in the bath.
I think it would take a horrible type of mind set to mock children like that: it obviously wasn't enough to have robbed them of their lives but instead of showing the slightest remorse he appeared to be revelling in it.
I think CC is over-egging the mimicking of a photo of the twins. In his book (first released 1994) he makes no mention of this. P. 72:
He did, however, get caught out one time when, unbeknown to him, my mother arrived while he was downstairs washing his hair. Jeremy apparently came running upstairs with his soapy hair pulled out into spikes, giggling like a little boy. On seeing my mother, he ran back downstairs in horror.
CC's behaviour towards SC and the twins was hardly exemplary.
I've lost a lot of respect for CC getting involved with the drama and rereleasing his book. Especially when he told CAL some 5 years ago he did not want to contribute to her book and wanted the whole thing to go away.
-
I think CC is over-egging the mimicking of a photo of the twins. In his book (first released 1994) he makes no mention of this. P. 72:
He did, however, get caught out one time when, unbeknown to him, my mother arrived while he was downstairs washing his hair. Jeremy apparently came running upstairs with his soapy hair pulled out into spikes, giggling like a little boy. On seeing my mother, he ran back downstairs in horror.
CC's behaviour towards SC and the twins was hardly exemplary.
I've lost a lot of respect for CC getting involved with the drama and rereleasing his book. Especially when he told CAL some 5 years ago he did not want to contribute to her book and wanted the whole thing to go away.
Strange how us humans have such a different perception of things eh... I have a lot of sympathy and respect for CC. He comes across as such a kind, lovely man. His ex wife and twin boys were murdered and his life must have been absolutely destroyed by this loss. I’m not sure anybody here could comprehend how they would act after having two of their children murdered yet here you are losing respect for him and judging his behaviour , whilst writing to a convicted child killer in prison presumably with increased respect for him? Funny old world we live in! 🤷🏻♂️
-
I think CC is over-egging the mimicking of a photo of the twins. In his book (first released 1994) he makes no mention of this. P. 72:
He did, however, get caught out one time when, unbeknown to him, my mother arrived while he was downstairs washing his hair. Jeremy apparently came running upstairs with his soapy hair pulled out into spikes, giggling like a little boy. On seeing my mother, he ran back downstairs in horror.
CC's behaviour towards SC and the twins was hardly exemplary.
I've lost a lot of respect for CC getting involved with the drama and rereleasing his book. Especially when he told CAL some 5 years ago he did not want to contribute to her book and wanted the whole thing to go away.
How can you ignore the fact that the image conjures up the image of one of the twins with his soapy hair spiked up?
Lose respect because he chose to speak out and have his views aired? We do that everyday here, commenting on people we don't even know - if WE have that right then HE most certainly does!
-
How can you ignore the fact that the image conjures up the image of one of the twins with his soapy hair spiked up?
Lose respect because he chose to speak out and have his views aired? We do that everyday here, commenting on people we don't even know - if WE have that right then HE most certainly does!
Who took this image of the twins? When and where was it taken? People pull their hair into shapes when shampooing. If CC thought JB was being disrespectful to the the twins then why not put in his 1994 book? Why wait over a quarter of a century to tell all on daytime tv?
Lose respect in terms of milking the tragedy for financial gain
.
He told CAL in 2015 he wouldnt contribute to her book and wanted the whole thing to go away so why in 2020?
And I found him creepy the way he was telling Cressida Bonas she had a fantastic career ahead of her.
-
Strange how us humans have such a different perception of things eh... I have a lot of sympathy and respect for CC. He comes across as such a kind, lovely man. His ex wife and twin boys were murdered and his life must have been absolutely destroyed by this loss. I’m not sure anybody here could comprehend how they would act after having two of their children murdered yet here you are losing respect for him and judging his behaviour , whilst writing to a convicted child killer in prison presumably with increased respect for him? Funny old world we live in! 🤷🏻♂️
At SC's 21st birthday party he left the party with another woman for 2 hours which resulted in SC putting her fist through a window.
SC suffered a very difficult pregnancy with the twins to the point she was hospitalised for weeks on end. However, 5 months after the twins were born CC left SC and the twins for another woman.
CC also tells us what a wonderful mother SC was and yet this is entirely at odds with his letter to NB.
I've never criticised CC previously but seen a different light here.
-
Who took this image of the twins? When and where was it taken? People pull their hair into shapes when shampooing. If CC thought JB was being disrespectful to the the twins then why not put in his 1994 book? Why wait over a quarter of a century to tell all on daytime tv?
Lose respect in terms of milking the tragedy for financial gain
.
He told CAL in 2015 he wouldnt contribute to her book and wanted the whole thing to go away so why in 2020?
And I found him creepy the way he was telling Cressida Bonas she had a fantastic career ahead of her.
He did put it in his book - the actual picture of Nicolas is also in his book. The fact that he doesn't mention that Bamber was being disrespectful is neither here nor there - the description alone tells you that!
He is the LAST one to have 'miked the tragedy' - the very fact that it has taken him all of these years to say HIS piece is proof of that.
He contributed because they were making the drama anyway and he was able to steer it so that his views were portrayed and not those of someone who wasn't involved - that's common sense Holly!
Why is giving someone a compliment 'creepy'?
Bamber called me 'naughty' when he found out I had changed my mins about him - that's creepy!
-
At SC's 21st birthday party he left the party with another woman for 2 hours which resulted in SC putting her fist through a window.
SC suffered a very difficult pregnancy with the twins to the point she was hospitalised for weeks on end. However, 5 months after the twins were born CC left SC and the twins for another woman.
CC also tells us what a wonderful mother SC was and yet this is entirely at odds with his letter to NB.
I've never criticised CC previously but seen a different light here.
Their relationship 6 years prior to the murders is neither here nor there - nor is it any of our business. They got divorced, it happens to lots of people - it's called life!
CC was angry when he wrote the letter to Nevill.
-
He did put it in his book - the actual picture of Nicolas is also in his book. The fact that he doesn't mention that Bamber was being disrespectful is neither here nor there - the description alone tells you that!
He is the LAST one to have 'miked the tragedy' - the very fact that it has taken him all of these years to say HIS piece is proof of that.
He contributed because they were making the drama anyway and he was able to steer it so that his views were portrayed and not those of someone who wasn't involved - that's common sense Holly!
Why is giving someone a compliment 'creepy'?
Bamber called me 'naughty' when he found out I had changed my mins about him - that's creepy!
There's no mention in his first book about JB mocking an image of the twins.
The producers no doubt had to consult with CC and get him on board since they wanted to feature his late twin sons.in the drama. Difficult to see how it could have gone ahead without his agreement legally and morally/public backlash/complaint to whichever body governs TV broadcasting, ofcom?
-
Their relationship 6 years prior to the murders is neither here nor there - nor is it any of our business. They got divorced, it happens to lots of people - it's called life!
CC was angry when he wrote the letter to Nevill.
It is our business if someone chooses to write a book and air their views on TV. We are not obliged to swallow whole what we are told and have the right to disagree.
It is obvious he wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC before the twins were even conceived.
-
It is our business if someone chooses to write a book and air their views on TV. We are not obliged to swallow whole what we are told and have the right to disagree.
It is obvious he wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC before the twins were even conceived.
And by the same token we are not obliged to swallow whole that your view is bipartisan when you have openly admitted writing letters and sending Christmas cards to a convicted child murderer. The way you say it’s obvious CC wasn’t committed to a long term relationship I could all say using similar judgements that it’s obvious you have some sort of crush on Bamber to send him cards and letters. And those are just the ones you have admitted to. People will take your biased views with a pinch of salt after that information sadly.
-
It is our business if someone chooses to write a book and air their views on TV. We are not obliged to swallow whole what we are told and have the right to disagree.
It is obvious he wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC before the twins were even conceived.
I support that he probably "wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC...................." the marriage being coerced by Nevill and June using money as a sweetener. However, I truly believe he adored the twins in a way he wouldn't have believed possible.
-
And by the same token we are not obliged to swallow whole that your view is bipartisan when you have openly admitted writing letters and sending Christmas cards to a convicted child murderer. The way you say it’s obvious CC wasn’t committed to a long term relationship I could all say using similar judgements that it’s obvious you have some sort of crush on Bamber to send him cards and letters. And those are just the ones you have admitted to. People will take your biased views with a pinch of salt after that information sadly.
People are free to think what they wish and post as they wish so long as it doesn't break forum rules.
-
I support that he probably "wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC...................." the marriage being coerced by Nevill and June using money as a sweetener. However, I truly believe he adored the twins in a way he wouldn't have believed possible.
Of course he adored the twins but he wasn't a Saint as he readily admits in his book.
-
For the benefit of newer members does anyone have readily available CC's letter to NB? My copy is stored on an old lap top in the loft.
-
It is our business if someone chooses to write a book and air their views on TV. We are not obliged to swallow whole what we are told and have the right to disagree.
It is obvious he wasn't committed to a long-term relationship with SC before the twins were even conceived.
OK, people have the right to comment - I feel however, he is being used as a distraction!
What has that got to do with the murders? CC isn't on trial now or then. It's difficult living with someone who has schizophrenia and it was his right to leave the relationship - divorce is legal.
-
Of course he adored the twins but he wasn't a Saint as he readily admits in his book.
So what point are you making? None of us here are saints. In fact is anyone?
-
5 pages of CC's letter to NB:
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Final page:
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
5 pages of CC's letter to NB:
Interesting that having known them for around 10 years, he still refers to them as Mr and Mrs Bamber.
-
Thank you for posting the letter. My impression is it just seems to be about Colin expressing concern at June going over the top on the religious side with his kids.
Colin sounds like a modern parent trying to raise the boys in a non secular way, and them becoming confused because June insists on doing the opposite.
-
Thank you for posting the letter. My impression is it just seems to be about Colin expressing concern at June going over the top on the religious side with his kids.
Colin sounds like a modern parent trying to raise the boys in a non secular way, and them becoming confused because June insists on doing the opposite.
Agreed. Sounds like Sheila was in her own world and was neglecting the kids and their basic needs. Breakfast, getting dressed and school runs, are a tiring experience for any mother let alone one who is struggling with mental health and coupled with it being twins. You have to appreciate it was the 80s too so the stigma around mental health was weakness. I think it’s clear that CC thought Sheila was struggling and was concerned that the kids had to stay with June and Sheila but not for their lives but more for their basic welfare like cleanliness, food, being preached at etc.
Still; not a nice read in hindsight. Little did he know it was uncle Jeremy he needed to be scared of. :-(
-
I would imagine most families have their dirty laundry don't they. June had her own issues and turned to the bible, while motherhood hit Sheila hard, it's a grand canyon style leap to go from this to the implication that she was mad enough to pick up a gun and murder her 2 children. Nothing to see here.
The other nasty accusation that comes out now and again is something Sheila said to her psychiatrist about one of her boys having sexual fantasies about her. It's totally taken out of context to paint Sheila in as insane light as possible. A conversation between her and her shrink should never have seen the light of day.
-
I would imagine most families have their dirty laundry don't they. June had her own issues and turned to the bible, while motherhood hit Sheila hard, it's a grand canyon style leap to go from this to the implication that she was mad enough to pick up a gun and murder her 2 children. Nothing to see here.
The other nasty accusation that comes out now and again is something Sheila said to her psychiatrist about one of her boys having sexual fantasies about her. It's totally taken out of context to paint Sheila in as insane light as possible. A conversation between her and her shrink should never have seen the light of day.
It was also said years before the murders.
-
I would imagine most families have their dirty laundry don't they. June had her own issues and turned to the bible, while motherhood hit Sheila hard, it's a grand canyon style leap to go from this to the implication that she was mad enough to pick up a gun and murder her 2 children. Nothing to see here
The other nasty accusation that comes out now and again is something Sheila said to her psychiatrist about one of her boys having sexual fantasies about her. It's totally taken out of context to paint Sheila in as insane light as possible. A conversation between her and her shrink should never have seen the light of day.
It's not a nasty accusation at all, it formed part of Dr Ferguson's testimony. I will quote from CAL's book:
Today, Dr Ferguson is at pains to point out that although Sheila found her mother's beliefs difficult to handle, June was not culpable for her illness: 'I think Sheila's delusional thoughts would have been shaped by her mother's religiosity but that wouldn't have happened if she hadn' t been schizophrenic'. During her first admission, Sheila was diagnosed with a schizo-affective disorder because although the feelings she expressed were 'clear symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia', there appeared to be less mood disturbance with her ideas. Dr Ferguson later stated that the first diagnosis was mistaken, declaring himself firmly convinced that she suffered from paranoid schizophrenia.
He identified the root of Sheila's obsession with good and evil as the 'devil's child incident', which had lingered painfully in her mind. As a result, she believed herself to be inherently evil with an ability to 'create evil in others'. She was 'particularly caught up with the idea that the devil had taken her over, giving her the power to project the devil's evil not only onto other people, but particularly her twin sons'. She feared being able to 'create in her two sons a source of ability to have sex with her or to do violence with her'. She then began to 'perceive in them other malign, adult intelligence' which they projected onto her until she was 'at risk of having to have sex with them or to join with them in some violence'. It was an extension of her troubled thinking of the past two years, in which she had felt 'particularly uneasy in the acts of masturbation and had other eerie feelings that she was sharing this with her baby sons'. In the fortnight prior to her hospital admission, Sheila's delusions became more vivid and real; she thought her sons would 'seduce' her and saw 'evil in both of them'. She especially feared that Nicholas was becoming 'a woman [ censored word ]' and 'potential murderer'.
-
It's not a nasty accusation at all, it formed part of Dr Ferguson's testimony. I will quote from CAL's book:
Today, Dr Ferguson is at pains to point out that although Sheila found her mother's beliefs difficult to handle, June was not culpable for her illness: 'I think Sheila's delusional thoughts would have been shaped by her mother's religiosity but that wouldn't have happened if she hadn' t been schizophrenic'. During her first admission, Sheila was diagnosed with a schizo-affective disorder because although the feelings she expressed were 'clear symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia', there appeared to be less mood disturbance with her ideas. Dr Ferguson later stated that the first diagnosis was mistaken, declaring himself firmly convinced that she suffered from paranoid schizophrenia.
He identified the root of Sheila's obsession with good and evil as the 'devil's child incident', which had lingered painfully in her mind. As a result, she believed herself to be inherently evil with an ability to 'create evil in others'. She was 'particularly caught up with the idea that the devil had taken her over, giving her the power to project the devil's evil not only onto other people, but particularly her twin sons'. She feared being able to 'create in her two sons a source of ability to have sex with her or to do violence with her'. She then began to 'perceive in them other malign, adult intelligence' which they projected onto her until she was 'at risk of having to have sex with them or to join with them in some violence'. It was an extension of her troubled thinking of the past two years, in which she had felt 'particularly uneasy in the acts of masturbation and had other eerie feelings that she was sharing this with her baby sons'. In the fortnight prior to her hospital admission, Sheila's delusions became more vivid and real; she thought her sons would 'seduce' her and saw 'evil in both of them'. She especially feared that Nicholas was becoming 'a woman [ censored word ]' and 'potential murderer'.
This report was his conclusion following her first breakdown. It could be argued that, had she taken her meds as prescribed, her second breakdown may have been avoided. However, during her second breakdown it appears that her focus was no longer on her children.
-
This report was his conclusion following her first breakdown. It could be argued that, had she taken her meds as prescribed, her second breakdown may have been avoided. However, during her second breakdown it appears that her focus was no longer on her children.
That's not my interpretation. The last para starts "In the fortnight prior to her hospital admission"... He then goes on to discuss SC's morbid thoughts re the twins.
Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.
-
That's not my interpretation. The last para starts "In the fortnight prior to her hospital admission"... He then goes on to discuss SC's morbid thoughts re the twins.
Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.
The most I can say of it, is that there is ambiguity. It doesn't make clear the fortnight prior to which admission. It would seem strange that having stated that during her second stay her focus wasn't her children, only to follow it with testimony in which the children feature very heavily. I concur that had she been as wonderful a mother as Colin claims, he'd have had no reason to be thinking about becoming their full time carer. However, allowing him benefit of doubt, it may have been the illness, as opposed to her mothering instincts, which caused his concern.
-
That's not my interpretation. The last para starts "In the fortnight prior to her hospital admission"... He then goes on to discuss SC's morbid thoughts re the twins.
Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.
If someone became debilitated with an illness such as cancer and were unable to perform motherly duties as before - would that make then a bad mother? There is no argument that Sheila had issues but she was ill not neglectful.
-
If someone became debilitated with an illness such as cancer and were unable to perform motherly duties as before - would that make then a bad mother? There is no argument that Sheila had issues but she was ill not neglectful.
That's what I said.
-
That's what I said.
Not really, you said CC's letter was at odds with his claims that SC was a loving mother which kind of suggests she wasn't. She was physically debilitated which has nothing to do with her feelings for her children.
-
Not really, you said CC's letter was at odds with his claims that SC was a loving mother which kind of suggests she wasn't. She was physically debilitated which has nothing to do with her feelings for her children.
Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11226.msg574739#msg574739
-
Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11226.msg574739#msg574739
That doesn't mean she wasn't a 'wonderful mother'.
-
That doesn't mean she wasn't a 'wonderful mother'.
Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.
-
Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.
Given that you don't know what CC was referring to when he made the comment, your castigation is somewhat harsh. Wonderful mother - may simply mean that she loved the twins and always tried to do her best - sadly what became her best diminished due to her illness - nevertheless, HE still considered her a 'wonderful mother'!
-
Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.
Using that letter as proof she was an unfit mother is just more utter nonsense in my opinion. I don't see how you can defend that statement based on the tone and content of that letter.
Colin was upset because June was pushing religion on to his kids, and Sheila was struggling with motherhood. Nothing to see here.
-
Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.
Sheila was unwell, but she wasn’t a psychopath like Jeremy
It’s dreadfully sad that Sheila suffered, but at least she acknowledged it and sought help...unlike the unfeeling, cold, evil Jeremy who used Sheila’s health problems to try and get away with murder to feed his disgusting repulsive greed
-
Sheila was unwell, but she wasn’t a psychopath like Jeremy
It’s dreadfully sad that Sheila suffered, but at least she acknowledged it and sought help...unlike the unfeeling, cold, evil Jeremy who used Sheila’s health problems to try and get away with murder to feed his disgusting repulsive greed
Holly genuinely believes Bamber is innocent and I defo don't think she has the hots for him. The letter she posted from Colin is already on the internet. Holly is really not that bad - for a supporter,
-
Julie's testimony in the drama has her saying she was in shock and scared after the massacre. Saying Bamber told her if he was arrested, so would she. In her TV interview she says how Jeremy was so confident afterwards.
It is lucky she did come forward as she would not have known the police were suspiscious of Bamber.
People have different views of when she should have come forward. One person suggesting she should have started saying everything in the police car on the way to WHF!
-
Julie's testimony in the drama has her saying she was in shock and scared after the massacre. Saying Bamber told her if he was arrested, so would she. In her TV interview she says how Jeremy was so confident afterwards.
It is lucky she did come forward as she would not have known the police were suspiscious of Bamber.
People have different views of when she should have come forward. One person suggesting she should have started saying everything in the police car on the way to WHF!
I think it was an unprecedented crime and I think that it probably took some time for any niggling suspicion she might have had about Jeremy's involvement to have any substance for her ~ and I think it was his subsequent behaviour which made the unthinkable a valid option as far as she was concerned.
At the time, I don't think that he could have claimed she was an accomplice without further incriminating himself, but I think he might have been able to convince her otherwise. Particularly if she was in denial that he could have been capable of committing the murders if not of his parents and Sheila but of the twins.
If she had voiced her suspicions immediately, particularly if she wasn't really sure of them, would it have made a difference to the outcome?
Would he have skilled lawyered up and if the police had been looking for an intruder instead of accepting murder/suicide would there have been sufficient forensic evidence against him? Much of what raised suspicion was his behaviour in the aftermath ... would he have behaved as he did if he hadn't thought he had got off with it?
I think Julie might have become worried that someone she suspected of mass murderer would have no qualms about adding one more who might have incriminated him to the list.
But that consideration and conscience about the information she had about his attitude to the victims prior to the murders forced her to come forward and make her statement to the police.
I think she showed extraordinary bravery in coming forward because it wasn't a given the police would take her seriously nor was it a given they would be able to substantiate her statement regarding the murders but they might have taken note of her presence/assistance at the burglary.
-
I think it was an unprecedented crime and I think that it probably took some time for any niggling suspicion she might have had about Jeremy's involvement to have any substance for her ~ and I think it was his subsequent behaviour which made the unthinkable a valid option as far as she was concerned.
At the time, I don't think that he could have claimed she was an accomplice without further incriminating himself, but I think he might have been able to convince her otherwise. Particularly if she was in denial that he could have been capable of committing the murders if not of his parents and Sheila but of the twins.
If she had voiced her suspicions immediately, particularly if she wasn't really sure of them, would it have made a difference to the outcome?
Would he have skilled lawyered up and if the police had been looking for an intruder instead of accepting murder/suicide would there have been sufficient forensic evidence against him? Much of what raised suspicion was his behaviour in the aftermath ... would he have behaved as he did if he hadn't thought he had got off with it?
I think Julie might have become worried that someone she suspected of mass murderer would have no qualms about adding one more who might have incriminated him to the list.
But that consideration and conscience about the information she had about his attitude to the victims prior to the murders forced her to come forward and make her statement to the police.
I think she showed extraordinary bravery in coming forward because it wasn't a given the police would take her seriously nor was it a given they would be able to substantiate her statement regarding the murders but they might have taken note of her presence/assistance at the burglary.
JM didn't come forward, it was supposedly her friend Liz Rimmington, who had sex with JB whilst he was in a relationship with JM, who supposedly contacted the police asking for DS Jones.
What evidence exists showing LR or anyone contacted the police and it wasn't the other way round? All JB's circle who gave evidence against him were to some degree involved with recreational drugs which may well have been used against them.
-
Given that you don't know what CC was referring to when he made the comment, your castigation is somewhat harsh. Wonderful mother - may simply mean that she loved the twins and always tried to do her best - sadly what became her best diminished due to her illness - nevertheless, HE still considered her a 'wonderful mother'!
I've made clear my position that due to SC's mental illness she was no longer able to meet the twin's basic needs hence CC's letter to NB asking for his support in putting to SC he should be the main carer. This can be further evidenced by Dr Ferguson's testimony. When SC was admitted to St Andrews in Mar/Apr 1985 the twins went to CC and when she left St Andrews in Apr '85 they remained with CC up until the murders. CC did not intend for SC to become the main carer again.
You and other long-term posters here and elsewhere will know I have always defended SC from comments made by those who believe JB responsible and those who believe SC responsible eg that she was promiscuous and had a 40k drug debt both of which imo are completely untrue and not a scrap of evidence exists to say otherwise. I've also never become involved in posts about SC physically abusing the twins as I've never seen evidence for this.
-
I've made clear my position that due to SC's mental illness she was no longer able to meet the twin's basic needs hence CC's letter to NB asking for his support in putting to SC he should be the main carer. This can be further evidenced by Dr Ferguson's testimony. When SC was admitted to St Andrews in Mar/Apr 1985 the twins went to CC and when she left St Andrews in Apr '85 they remained with CC up until the murders. CC did not intend for SC to become the main carer again.
You and other long-term posters here and elsewhere will know I have always defended SC from comments made by those who believe JB responsible and those who believe SC responsible eg that she was promiscuous and had a 40k drug debt both of which imo are completely untrue and not a scrap of evidence exists to say otherwise. I've also never become involved in posts about SC physically abusing the twins as I've never seen evidence for this.
Then why bring it up at risk of perpetuating it.
For example I am new and knew nothing about these allegations ... why did you think me and others like me should have been informed of what you seem to think is nothing more than rumour and innuendo?
-
Then why bring it up at risk of perpetuating it.
For example I am new and knew nothing about these allegations ... why did you think me and others like me should have been informed of what you seem to think is nothing more than rumour and innuendo?
Best hear them here from me rather than read them elsewhere and think there might be some truth in them.
-
Best hear them here from me rather than read them elsewhere and think there might be some truth in them.
If you were able to work it out for yourself why do you suppose I or anyone else wouldn't be capable of doing likewise... and go to the trouble of ensuring there is yet another inaccuracy receiving the light of day on the internet for our enlightenment?
I don't think the Drama visited too much of the character assassination Sheila suffered, and that was no bad thing.
-
If you were able to work it out for yourself why do you suppose I or anyone else wouldn't be capable of doing likewise... and go to the trouble of ensuring there is yet another inaccuracy receiving the light of day on the internet for our enlightenment?
I don't think the Drama visited too much of the character assassination Sheila suffered, and that was no bad thing.
To be fair to Holly, she doesn't generally go in for gossip and isn't prone to believe someone of the more colourful theories bandied about.
-
JM didn't come forward, it was supposedly her friend Liz Rimmington, who had sex with JB whilst he was in a relationship with JM, who supposedly contacted the police asking for DS Jones.
What evidence exists showing LR or anyone contacted the police and it wasn't the other way round? All JB's circle who gave evidence against him were to some degree involved with recreational drugs which may well have been used against them.
Which is it then Holly,you have JM not coming forward then drop in a conspiracy of it supposedly being someone else.Was the drama not true to this where JM came forward to meet Jones in the Police station?
-
JM didn't come forward, it was supposedly her friend Liz Rimmington, who had sex with JB whilst he was in a relationship with JM, who supposedly contacted the police asking for DS Jones.
What evidence exists showing LR or anyone contacted the police and it wasn't the other way round? All JB's circle who gave evidence against him were to some degree involved with recreational drugs which may well have been used against them.
NOT supposedly... Actually! Liz Rimington rang Witham asking for Stan Jones. He wasn't in, but at home, and as soon as he heard from Witham he contacted Liz at the phone number she left with the duty sergeant.
You either believe Wilkes, or you don't.
-
JM didn't come forward, it was supposedly her friend Liz Rimmington, who had sex with JB whilst he was in a relationship with JM, who supposedly contacted the police asking for DS Jones.
What evidence exists showing LR or anyone contacted the police and it wasn't the other way round? All JB's circle who gave evidence against him were to some degree involved with recreational drugs which may well have been used against them.
What does her having sex with Bamber have to do with anything?
-
What does her having sex with Bamber have to do with anything?
It's evidence he had a wandering willy.
-
NOT supposedly... Actually! Liz Rimington rang Witham asking for Stan Jones. He wasn't in, but at home, and as soon as he heard from Witham he contacted Liz at the phone number she left with the duty sergeant.
You either believe Wilkes, or you don't.
No one has a complete audit trail of who was in touch with who, when and why. My view is that DS Jones pursued witnesses because he believed JB guilty and needed them on board.
-
What does her having sex with Bamber have to do with anything?
Nothing per se other than I believe he was in a relationship with JM at the time.
You have suggested in the past JB might have implicated MM because he had some sort of sexual encounter with SF who I believe was still in some sort of relationship with JB at the time.
-
It's evidence he had a wandering willy.
But in reality JB was a single guy without parental responsibilities. And yet he is always called out over his sexual morality. In one of the dramas a Sun journo questions his infidelity towards Julie. And in another a psychologist who has never met him refers to him as promiscious. And yet others who were in committed relationships and had children were carrying on much the same and no one comments:
CC married and living with SC by his own admission disappeared for 2 hours at SC's 21st party with a woman from his office and admits he had 'cardinal intent'. He then left SC and the twins for another woman when the twins were only 5 months old.
MM married and living with his wife while at the same time fathering a child with CB and continuing the relationship. But not content with two women he was also in a relationship with MS who he spent the night of the murders with.
I couldn't give a damn who was bonking who but its somewhat hypocritical. And it takes two to tango. And Afaik no woman has ever come forward to say JB behaved inappropriately.
-
But in reality JB was a single guy without parental responsibilities. And yet he is always called out over his sexual morality. In one of the dramas a Sun journo questions his infidelity towards Julie. And in another a psychologist who has never met him refers to him as promiscious. And yet others who were in committed relationships and had children were carrying on much the same and no one comments:
CC married and living with SC by his own admission disappeared for 2 hours at SC's 21st party with a woman from his office and admits he had 'cardinal intent'. He then left SC and the twins for another woman when the twins were only 5 months old.
MM married and living with his wife while at the same time fathering a child with CB and continuing the relationship. But not content with two women he was also in a relationship with MS who he spent the night of the murders with.
I couldn't give a damn who was bonking who but its somewhat hypocritical. And it takes two to tango. And Afaik no woman has ever come forward to say JB behaved inappropriately.
His promiscuity isn't mentioned in isolation, it is mentioned as simply another trait he holds which is conducive with the psychopathic check list.
-
His promiscuity isn't mentioned in isolation, it is mentioned as simply another trait he holds which is conducive with the psychopathic check list.
There's no evidence JB has ever suffered any personality disorder or mental illness and no evidence he had sex with more than half a dozen women.
What's the definition of promiscious, who has defined it and on what basis? How does it fit with men from some cultures who are permitted to have numerous wives?
What evidence exists supporting a correlation between promiscuity and psychopathy? Many famous men claim to have had sex with hundreds of women eg Mick Hucknall and Tom Jones.
JB was within his rights morally and legally to have sex with any consenting women.
-
There's no evidence JB has ever suffered any personality disorder or mental illness and no evidence he had sex with more than half a dozen women.
What's the definition of promiscious, who has defined it and on what basis? How does it fit with men from some cultures who are permitted to have numerous wives?
What evidence exists supporting a correlation between promiscuity and psychopathy? Many famous men claim to have had sex with hundreds of women eg Mick Hucknall and Tom Jones.
JB was within his rights morally and legally to have sex with any consenting women.
Actually, I didn't say he was promiscuous, I am simply commenting on why the suggestion is made.
However, if Bamber killed 5 people (including 2 six years old boys) in cold blood - he most definitely has a serious personality disorder. I believe he did kill them so .....
-
His promiscuity isn't mentioned in isolation, it is mentioned as simply another trait he holds which is conducive with the psychopathic check list.
Not a particularly edifying trait, I'll admit, but I'm sure lots of young people are the same!
-
Not a particularly edifying trait, I'll admit, but I'm sure lots of young people are the same!
Yes, but Jeremy isn't accused of being a killer/psychopath because of promiscuity.
-
The drama was a hammer blow for supporters.
The family & Stan Jones came out of it well. So did Julie. A young woman caught in a terrible situation no one else has ever been in before. But doing the right thing.
Taff looked stupid from his first scene. Standing outside WHF saying 5 people dead inside was already case closed. Bamber looked selfish, arrogant & callous.
The only saving grace for supporters was that there was no reconstruction of Bamber committing the massacre. Carol Ann Lee's reconstruction was good to go. But Colin Caffell said he did not want any shooting.
-
The drama was a hammer blow for supporters.
The family & Stan Jones came out of it well. So did Julie. A young woman caught in a terrible situation no one else has ever been in before. But doing the right thing.
Taff looked stupid from his first scene. Standing outside WHF saying 5 people dead inside was already case closed. Bamber looked selfish, arrogant & callous.
The only saving grace for supporters was that there was no reconstruction of Bamber committing the massacre. Carol Ann Lee's reconstruction was good to go. But Colin Caffell said he did not want any shooting.
I don't think any of them "came out of it well", apart from Colin. I only hope they are/were not like that in real life!
-
I don't think any of them "came out of it well", apart from Colin. I only hope they are/were not like that in real life!
If the drama was supposed to show JB as responsible I think it was an OG.
And if anyone cares to read CC's book he doesn't come out of it well either. The first episode showed the twins drawing pics one of which depicted granny June in a rather unflattering light. However the twins didn't initially share these drawings with CC as depicted in the drama but CC's mother as per CC's book. It was also, according to CC's letter, his mother the twins turned to to talk about what was going on in their home life with SC eg having to get themselves ready for school and wake mummy in the mornings. Why was CC finding all this out second hand from his mother?
And anyone who reads his email to CAL published in her book will wonder why he decided to get involved with the drama and re-release his book if not for commercial gain.
I thought he came over as creepy on the daytime TV shows.
-
I don't think any of them "came out of it well", apart from Colin. I only hope they are/were not like that in real life!
The one character personally known to me was portrayed so well that his son and widow both cried when they watched the actor breathing 'life' into him. His granddaughter though they were using old footage of him. I'm told, by those who knew others portrayed, that their characters were perfectly captured.
-
If the drama was supposed to show JB as responsible I think it was an OG.
And if anyone cares to read CC's book he doesn't come out of it well either. The first episode showed the twins drawing pics one of which depicted granny June in a rather unflattering light. However the twins didn't initially share these drawings with CC as depicted in the drama but CC's mother as per CC's book. It was also, according to CC's letter, his mother the twins turned to to talk about what was going on in their home life with SC eg having to get themselves ready for school and wake mummy in the mornings. Why was CC finding all this out second hand from his mother?
And anyone who reads his email to CAL published in her book will wonder why he decided to get involved with the drama and re-release his book if not for commercial gain.
I thought he came over as creepy on the daytime TV shows.
It didn't stop you buying it!!! If you want creepy, it's this sad idiot who wastes his money supporting a child killer and whinges openly online about his wife and daughter...
https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/)
-
It didn't stop you buying it!!! If you want creepy, it's this sad idiot who wastes his money supporting a child killer and whinges openly online about his wife and daughter...
https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/)
I take no notice of any of the social media stuff.
-
Supposing Sheila had appeared to have gone berserk and got hold of the gun, and whilst Nevill was allegedly on the phone calling Jeremy for help, Sheila carried on upstairs....................to where Jeremy was waiting? Would Nevill, IF he'd made that6 call, have known he was talking to an answerphone? -not that it matters as he didn't live to talk about it. Anyway, Jeremy could have removed the gun from Sheila to complete the task, taken his time getting back to Goldhanger, had a shower and gone through the routine we now know?
-
Supposing Sheila had appeared to have gone berserk and got hold of the gun, and whilst Nevill was allegedly on the phone calling Jeremy for help, Sheila carried on upstairs....................to where Jeremy was waiting? Would Nevill, IF he'd made that6 call, have known he was talking to an answerphone? -not that it matters as he didn't live to talk about it. Anyway, Jeremy could have removed the gun from Sheila to complete the task, taken his time getting back to Goldhanger, had a shower and gone through the routine we now know?
So, are you saying that both Jeremy and Sheila were involved in the killings?
I know when I'm talking to an answerphone, but I didn't even realise they existed in 1985! Shows my ignorance!
-
That's Paul Harrison territory and we never go there... ever!
-
So, are you saying that both Jeremy and Sheila were involved in the killings?
I know when I'm talking to an answerphone, but I didn't even realise they existed in 1985! Shows my ignorance!
Am I claiming? No. I'm just supposing.
-
That's Paul Harrison territory and we never go there... ever!
He who's name shall not be mentioned.
-
He who's name shall not be mentioned.
If you don't mind me asking, why not?
He wrote a book about the case, am I right? Obviously, it's unpopular with some of you!!
-
If you don't mind me asking, why not?
He wrote a book about the case, am I right? Obviously, it's unpopular with some of you!!
Actually, it's probably unpopular with all of us. I didn't rate it and I'm in it! @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
-
If you don't mind me asking, why not?
He wrote a book about the case, am I right? Obviously, it's unpopular with some of you!!
He came to the conclusion that both Jeremy Bamber and Sheila Caffell colluded to commit the murders, simply because he received a long meandering letter from a lag serving time and friendly with Bamber who claimed he confessed to doing so.
Holly and others didn't think much of it either, read the reviews...
https://www.waterstones.com/book/deviant/paul-harrison/9781904091929 (https://www.waterstones.com/book/deviant/paul-harrison/9781904091929)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deviant-Jeremy-Bamber-White-Murders/dp/190409192X (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deviant-Jeremy-Bamber-White-Murders/dp/190409192X)
-
He came to the conclusion that both Jeremy Bamber and Sheila Caffell colluded to commit the murders, simply because he received a long meandering letter from a lag serving time and friendly with Bamber who claimed he confessed to doing so.
Holly and others didn't think much of it either, read the reviews...
https://www.waterstones.com/book/deviant/paul-harrison/9781904091929 (https://www.waterstones.com/book/deviant/paul-harrison/9781904091929)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deviant-Jeremy-Bamber-White-Murders/dp/190409192X (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deviant-Jeremy-Bamber-White-Murders/dp/190409192X)
Makes it sound like all were bludgeoned.
is the real story of what happened the night three adults and two children were bludgeoned and shot to death at White House Farm.
-
Makes it sound like all were bludgeoned.
is the real story of what happened the night three adults and two children were bludgeoned and shot to death at White House Farm.
All bludgeoned? No, only Nevill was beaten across the face (and arms) causing terrible injuries, most likely with the barrel and/or stock of the rifle, a shard of which broke off and landed in front of the AGA, as in the attachment.
The lag's story placed Jeremy as instigator directing Sheila who held the rifle and was told where to fire at her parents. He then disposed of the twins before helping Sheila commit suicide.
-
For the benefit of newer members, author Paul Harrison has some history on this forum and The Jeremy Bamber Forum. He bigged himself up about how he was going to settle the case once and for all. In reality his grasp of the case was lacking to say the least. He also made a lot of claims which didn't really stand up eg attending the trial and interviewing many of the players all of whom had passed away in recent years which allowed him to invent meetings and interviews. I had kind of sussed him out before the book was released as I could see a similar MO with his other books. He also wrote an autobiography of sorts which I found utterly bizarre and again just didn't stand up. He then fell out with some people on the JB forum which seems to have resulted in the following:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison/amp
But it all caught up with him:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9490896/phoney-serial-killer-expert-deceiving-fans-yorkshire-ripper/amp/
-
Does anyone know of any new documentaries in the making? After all, the 6 part series proved quite popular with the british public. Personally i think NetFlix should at least be considering it.
-
Does anyone know of any new documentaries in the making? After all, the 6 part series proved quite popular with the british public. Personally i think NetFlix should at least be considering it.
Post acquittal documentaries and films will prove more popular.
-
Post acquittal documentaries and films will prove more popular.
Mockumentaries maybe. @)(++(*
-
Post acquittal documentaries and films will prove more popular.
He will die in prison. Sooner rather than later i hope.
-
Thanks to those who replied to my question re Paul Harrison. I hadn't heard of his book until recently-----having looked at the reviews, I think I'll give it a miss!
-
HBO Max, the new movie streaming service have bought the rights to "White House Farm" and scheduled the series to begin across the pond in December 2020. So expect a huge influx of inquisitive Americans at Christmas time and beyond...
https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/ (https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/)
-
HBO Max, the new movie streaming service have bought the rights to "White House Farm" and scheduled the series to begin across the pond in December 2020. So expect a huge influx of inquisitive Americans at Christmas time and beyond...
https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/ (https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/)
I suppose we'll get Trump playing the modern day Solomon?
-
I suppose we'll get Trump playing the modern day Solomon?
Trump possesses much less than the required amount of wisdom and too imperfect a spraytan to play Solomon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI)
-
Trump possesses much less than the required amount of wisdom and too imperfect a spraytan to play Solomon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI)
Such a shame Trump doesn't know that...
-
Trump possesses much less than the required amount of wisdom and too imperfect a spraytan to play Solomon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI)
He's too imperfect to play Peter Griffin!
-
HBO Max, the new movie streaming service have bought the rights to "White House Farm" and scheduled the series to begin across the pond in December 2020. So expect a huge influx of inquisitive Americans at Christmas time and beyond...
https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/ (https://news.otakukart.com/400427/white-house-farm-hbo-max-release-date-production-details-plot-and-other-details/)
We know from IA and podcasts from US they tend to view the case differently due to widespread use of firearms and greater knowledge.
-
We know from IA and podcasts from US they tend to view the case differently due to widespread use of firearms and greater knowledge.
From IA? Seriously?
-
We know from IA and podcasts from US they tend to view the case differently due to widespread use of firearms and greater knowledge.
Another home for pretentious prattlers, including a familiar one from the Book of Judges...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11)
-
Another home for pretentious prattlers, including a familiar one from the Book of Judges...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11)
You got that right! I couldn't hack reading the twaddle.
-
Another home for pretentious prattlers, including a familiar one from the Book of Judges...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11)
Durhhhhh!!! *%87 *%87
-
From IA? Seriously?
Yes CW and DF from US had a different take on the case.
-
Yes CW and DF from US had a different take on the case.
I am well aware of CW and his take. I still can't get over his reconstruction of SC shooting herself @)(++(*
-
He came to the conclusion that both Jeremy Bamber and Sheila Caffell colluded to commit the murders, simply because he received a long meandering letter from a lag serving time and friendly with Bamber who claimed he confessed to doing so.
Would this lag that was serving his time with JB be MT or did MT take his recent "revelations" from the shoddy book?
IE: Is that two lags he has "confessed" this to or just the same one? I'm afraid I don't read Mike's posts. Life is too short.
-
Would this lag that was serving his time with JB be MT or did MT take his recent "revelations" from the shoddy book?
IE: Is that two lags he has "confessed" this to or just the same one? I'm afraid I don't read Mike's posts. Life is too short.
No, not Mike, the alleged lag was never named.
-
No, not Mike, the alleged lag was never named.
Ah, so the lag probably didn't exist.
Still... Mikes version seems plausible @)(++(*
-
Ah, so the lag probably didn't exist.
Still... Mikes version seems plausible @)(++(*
That's the £25.50 question 8(0(*
-
Another home for pretentious prattlers, including a familiar one from the Book of Judges...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298350&page=11)
Hadn't come across this site before. Have been thoroughly enjoying reading the posts on there!
-
Hadn't come across this site before. Have been thoroughly enjoying reading the posts on there!
Fill your boots with that MW - I won't be wasting any time there (waste enough here @)(++(*).