Jeremy has access to the farm via various windows. How do you believe he gained access? I’m assuming the window furthest away from the bedrooms was the downstairs bathroom but is anybody else familiar with the layout downstairs that could offer another option?
Also what would he have worn that night in your opinion? Presumably in black to avoid being seen but what about the lack of forensic evidence? Would indicate a very careful outfit to conceal as much as possible.
I believe he was wearing an ammunition belt with at least one additional magazine to save him the need to go downstairs and reload.
If he did do it and did travel from GH then surely this was a huge risk to be spotted wearing such clothes?!
Finally, would he have worn a balaclava or would he have taken satisfaction of being recognised just before death....consious nothing has ever been found so it’s all opinion.
Thoughts?
Jeremy has access to the farm via various windows. How do you believe he gained access? I’m assuming the window furthest away from the bedrooms was the downstairs bathroom but is anybody else familiar with the layout downstairs that could offer another option?
Also what would he have worn that night in your opinion? Presumably in black to avoid being seen but what about the lack of forensic evidence? Would indicate a very careful outfit to conceal as much as possible.
I believe he was wearing an ammunition belt with at least one additional magazine to save him the need to go downstairs and reload.
If he did do it and did travel from GH then surely this was a huge risk to be spotted wearing such clothes?!
Finally, would he have worn a balaclava or would he have taken satisfaction of being recognised just before death....consious nothing has ever been found so it’s all opinion.
Thoughts?
Thoughts... Judge and jury should have been taken to WHF to see for themselves how JB supposedly entered and exited given DCI Jones found all doors and windows secured from within on morning of 7th Aug.
There was a way of opening the bathroom window from the outside. I'm not convinced he wore a wetsuit either, but did he conceal his face?
I speculate that Jeremy just wanted get the killings over and out the way with as swiftly and with the least amount of fuss as possible. Not being waylaid with potential personal dialog and personal pleas, not that it would have made any difference to the outcome. And perhaps the best way to terrorise Sheila and get her to comply would be an unknown assailant and not the shock of seeing her brother in front of her. The only time he needed to speak was to get Sheila on the ground.
Whether or not they came to understand it was Jeremy at some point is another point. Nevill must have realised.
But a the bathroom window was found to be unlocked - no one admitted to opening it or indeed - closing it. DCI Jones wasn't there long enough to complete the thorough check that he claimed. He clearly missed the bathroom window.
Interesting about the mask isn’t it and I agree. But how and where he gained entry without waking people and what he wore is very fascinating to me. It sets the tone for everything that happened in there.
But a the bathroom window was found to be unlocked - no one admitted to opening it or indeed - closing it. DCI Jones wasn't there long enough to complete the thorough check that he claimed. He clearly missed the bathroom window.
Not according to Coa doc:
265. Complaint is made that part of Mr Ainsley's Final Report was not disclosed to the Defence in which he wrote:
"There was no apparent entry to or exit from the house and D.Chief Inspector Jones did in fact examine the inside of all ground floor windows and noted that they were all shut and secured on their latches.
[/b]
In any event I maintain judge and jury should have been taken to WHF to see for themselves what was being argued.
Yes, the sheer audacity of the enterprise is astounding.
Another interesting question is how he got there and back to Goldhanger. I lean towards him using June's bicycle. The tyre walls were caked in mud indicating it had been ridden off road. He claimed it was taken there for Julie to use. More nonsense.
That was before Jonesy went back there and had a second look. It's funny how these important details slip their minds!
Did he enter the farm using the shower room window?
Did he have to be wearing any clothes at all? He could have removed them on entry and he could have showered to wash off any blood before getting dressed and leaving via the kitchen window.
100% used a bike. And it’s quite funny when they bring it up for the first time on the police statements on here and he says 6-8 weeks he had it. 😂.... you can imagine his panic when they said the word bike. He all of a sudden lost his car alibi !
Did he enter the farm using the shower room window?
Did he have to be wearing any clothes at all? He could have removed them on entry and he could have showered to wash off any blood before getting dressed and leaving via the kitchen window.
I believe the bike was forensically examined and didn't reveal any tell tale signs.
No idea what you are referring to?
Lol... it’s a bike. What tell tale signs would it have? And wasn’t it quite a bit of time that passed before it was found ? I.e longer than 24 hours so plenty of tome for him to clean up , same as disposing of any clothes he wore.
I don't have Wilkes book on me at the moment Holly, he explains how to get in via the bathroom window when it appears securely closed. I will look it up when I get back to the UK.
146. He had the means and knowledge to gain entry to the address, one such route being through the bathroom window. He then took the rifle, with the sound moderator attached as normal, and made his way upstairs to where the members of his family were sleeping
I don't have Wilkes book on me at the moment Holly, he explains how to get in via the bathroom window when it appears securely closed. I will look it up when I get back to the UK.
From Her majesty versus Bamber:
Forensics are usually able to tell if perps of crime have cleaned up. Perps are removing visible evidence not looking under high powered microscopes.
Julie Mugford spent the weekend before the killings with the appellant in Goldhanger. During that period he dyed his hair black and she saw his mother's bicycle at the address. Other witnesses saw the bicyle at the appellant's home following the killings. Robert Boutflour saw mud on the walls of the tyres but not on the tread, as if it had been through deep mud.
Blood?You know ... the stuff which comes out of bodies and sometimes splashes if shot are fired at close range. I believe Mr Bamber was also bludgeoned as well as shot so someone had to get up close and very personal to do that to him.
You know ... the stuff which comes out of bodies and sometimes splashes if shot are fired at close range. I believe Mr Bamber was also bludgeoned as well as shot so someone had to get up close and very personal to do that to him.
According to the evidence presented in court this was cold, calm merciless killing which had been plotted for quite some time.
The person who carried it out was well acquainted with the routine of the household ... was familiar with access and egress points down to the faulty kitchen window latch which allowed exit from an apparently locked down house.
The timing would probably never be bettered with all the heirs apparent under the same roof ... including the six year old twin boys.
I lean towards the theory that the best way to avoid being spotted after murdering the family would be using Mrs Bamber's bicycle ... it was all coolly, calmly and premeditatively worked out ... so why not have all contingencies fed into the equation such as allowing for bleeding as a result of brutally massacring five people?
I guess it’s interesting if he cycled home with blood stained clothes hence the need to clean but even Jeremy wasn’t that stupid. Especially at this risk of being seen. No, it is more likely he had a bag or something with change of clothes therefore not sure any forensic clean up would have been needed. He is just a guy with a bike that he claims to ride for last 6-8 weeks. Nothing unusual would have been on there.
Where's the evidence that suggests the perp would have sustained blood to his/her person/clothes?
So how do you account for the fact that so little blood was found on the rifle that it wasn't even possible to type and yet the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch was!?
Why would the perp sustain blood on his her person/clothes if the rifle only contained small traces?
5 dead, blood splattered bodies, in the house he just come from.
We know there was plenty of spatter inside the silencer. Regardless of the volume of blood, Jeremy wasn't about to take any risks. Makes sense to have a shower.
The blood flake supposedly found in the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch is highly contentious. There's no evidence it the drawback phenomenon occurs with the rifle/ammo/silencer combi.
It will remain highly contentious for some, convincing evidence for others.
If the silencer had been placed in an evidence bag as per correct procedure then the grey hair attached to it may never have been lost. It's the only fault I can find with DS Jones in the entire investigation.
So how do you account for the fact that so little blood was found on the rifle that it wasn't even possible to type and yet the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch was!?
Why would the perp sustain blood on his her person/clothes if the rifle only contained small traces?
So how do you account for the fact that so little blood was found on the rifle that it wasn't even possible to type and yet the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch was!?
Why would the perp sustain blood on his her person/clothes if the rifle only contained small traces?
To try and argue that the person wouldn’t have any blood on them is one of the craziest things I’ve read so far.... but why doesn’t that surprise me.Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.
🙄
quote author=Holly Goodhead link=topic=11231.msg573888#msg573888 date=1581633997]
Where's the evidence that suggests the perp would have sustained blood to his/her person/clothes?
Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.
I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.
He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.
All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.
It’s with absolutely no surprise that with a mentality like that his appeals continue to fail. You can picture it now :
- Sheila was dusting the curtains as the house was surrounded by armed police.
- Sheila shot NB downstairs just as the police burst in.
- then run upstairs and shot herself in the neck
- damn, the shot didn’t kill her but by this point she was incapacitated so the dog, was was barking furiously nearby, hopped onto the trigger to finish her off.
- the dog then picked up the silencer like a fresh newspaper and delivered it back to the cupboard after licking off the prints and tiny amount of blood.
- the 5 bodies , who were violently shot, soaked up the blood that their gunshot wounds like a sponge, which meant that absolutely nobody would have had any blood on them.
I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.
He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.
All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.
And without the phone call there was the unappealing prospect of Barbara Wilson discovering the crime. She disliked Jeremy, Nevill had told her he was capable of anything and "must not turn my back on that young man"
I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.
He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.
All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.
Sheila, Nevill and June were buried in the local churchyard, the twins were buried in a separate service in north London. Or were they cremated, i'm not sure on that pointWrong way round. Sheila, Nevill and June were cremated at Colchester crematorium around 11 miles from St. Nicholas' Church. The twins were buried together in a white coffin, along with the ashes of Sheila at their head in Highgate Cemetery.
Wrong way round. Sheila, Nevill and June were cremated at Colchester crematorium around 11 miles from St. Nicholas' Church. The twins were buried together in a white coffin, along with the ashes of Sheila at their head in Highgate Cemetery.
Sheila, Nevill and June were buried in the local churchyard, the twins were buried in a separate service in north London. Or were they cremated, i'm not sure on that point
I'm not sure why you think that blood from gunshot wounds selectively contaminates the gun or rifle barrel from which the killing bullet was fired.
Do you think that is what normally happens in shootings?
I don't think it is possible to put seven bullets into one person's body one of which was right between the eyes or to put eight bullets into another and bludgeoning him for good measure - all at close range - without leaving behind a scene resembling a blood bath.
Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire. Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?
Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all. It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.
If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings? Where were the void patterns left by perp?
For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide. Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.
Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire. Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?
Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all. It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.
If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings? Where were the void patterns left by perp?
For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide. Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.
Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire. Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?
Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all. It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.
If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings? Where were the void patterns left by perp?
For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide. Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.
https://physicsworld.com/a/the-physics-of-blood-spatter/
I'm going with the logic of members who have pointed out that any blood spatter could be cleaned off the smooth metal barrel without much effort although he seems to have missed some on the sound moderator.
It is unfortunate that the authorities screwed up on the forensics for over a month he so nearly got away with it as a result. But fortunately that gross error was rectified with in my opinion the help of the man himself who instead of clearing up when he could was instead so arrogant and sure of himself that he left clues to his MO lying around. Such as the saw blade showing how he got in and failing to repair the faulty window catch showing how he got out.
(https://physicsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PWOct19Perkowitz-Figure2.jpg)This diagram demonstrates three possible trajectories that could be mapped from back-spatter blood stains depending on what phenomena are taken into account. Straight-line paths (red), which do not account for gravity and drag, overestimate the height of impact. When drag is not considered (blue) the paths fall short. BPA needs to take into account both gravity and drag (black) to get a more accurate estimate of where the bullet impacted.___________________________________________________________________
Seems clear enough when a person is standing ... I wonder what it looks like if the victim is lying down.
Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.
The heading at the top of the diagram is entitled:
2. Shortfalls with blood pattern analysis
Blood spatter is dependent on many factors:
- calibre of firearm
- velocity of ammunition
- distance of shot
- wound site
Whether perps sustain any blood spatter is also dependent on length of barrel. A perp with a handgun is much closer to target than a perp with a long rifle.
One can see from soc images and testimony from all those at soc that the murders did not generate any high impact back spatter.
Why would he remove blood from the smooth metal barrel? In any event it was found resting on SC's body complete with blood stains.
What aspects did the authorities screw up on? Afaik all physical evidence was collected from soc, given an exhibit number and forwarded to forensics other than the silencer.
Officers found all windows and doors either locked or secured from within. It was later claimed a window existed that JB could have exited securing it shut from the outside but no one for the defence, judge or jury had an opportunity to see how this worked in practice.