Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 08:55:05 AM
Title: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 08:55:05 AM
probably off message/topic - and happy for admin to kill this one off
But I believe it to be of relevance for it shows how PR works - and damage limitation does too (Bell Pottinger)
It also mentions Leveson - so might have some bearing
Hi Puffin - waiting for it (Amazon ordered) 8((()*/
It's a bl**dy good read. Some media paper men were not happy with it, but then crooks and conmen don't like the world knowing what sh**s they are. I recommend it whenever I can to anyone who wants to really get at the truth. 8((()*/
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 09:52:56 AM
Hi Puffin - waiting for it (Amazon ordered) 8((()*/
It's a bl**dy good read. Some media paper men were not happy with it, but then crooks and conmen don't like the world knowing what sh**s they are. I recommend it whenever I can to anyone who wants to really get at the truth. 8((()*/
If you care, I shall get back to you on what I've made of it 8@??)(
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2013, 09:54:32 AM
Tbh, I wish that PR's had been around when I was interviewed on TV and by the press to do with my being a pioneer woman engineer. ... and one communist paper had me down as a leading Red. Totally untrue and that damned paper hadn't even interviewed me.
In black and white, I shall for ever be named as a progressive torch bearing commie. ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Puffin on June 04, 2013, 10:00:39 AM
Hi Puffin - waiting for it (Amazon ordered) 8((()*/
It's a bl**dy good read. Some media paper men were not happy with it, but then crooks and conmen don't like the world knowing what sh**s they are. I recommend it whenever I can to anyone who wants to really get at the truth. 8((()*/
If you care, I shall get back to you on what I've made of it 8@??)(
Please do, so far I have had many thanks for mentioning it to people. And since leveson it is well worth the read. 8((()*/
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 10:01:29 AM
Tbh, I wish that PR's had been around when I was interviewed on TV and by the press to do with my being a pioneer woman engineer. ... and one communist paper had me down as a leading Red. Totally untrue and that damned paper hadn't even interviewed me.
I shall for ever be, in black and white, named as a progressive torch bearing commie. ?8)@)-)
There are far worse things you could have been labelled with dear Sadie
Champagne Socialist springs to mind
Marx might just turn in his grave at Highgate at the mere thought 8((()*/
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Puffin on June 04, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Tbh, I wish that PR's had been around when I was interviewed on TV and by the press to do with my being a pioneer woman engineer. ... and one communist paper had me down as a leading Red. Totally untrue and that damned paper hadn't even interviewed me.
I shall for ever be, in black and white, named as a progressive torch bearing commie. ?8)@)-)
There are far worse things you could have been labelled with dear Sadie
Champagne Socialist springs to mind
Marx might just turn in his grave at Highgate at the mere thought 8((()*/
Personally, I don't give a toss for anyone's religion or political views, I only get miffed if people try and try and shove their views on me. So if you are a commie, sadie, that doesn't make you a nasty person, does it?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2013, 10:08:39 AM
Hi Puffin - waiting for it (Amazon ordered) 8((()*/
It's a bl**dy good read. Some media paper men were not happy with it, but then crooks and conmen don't like the world knowing what sh**s they are. I recommend it whenever I can to anyone who wants to really get at the truth. 8((()*/
If you care, I shall get back to you on what I've made of it 8@??)(
Please do, so far I have had many thanks for mentioning it to people. And since leveson it is well worth the read. 8((()*/
I don't suppose that "citizen churnalists" requires an enormous leap of faith...
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 10:09:33 AM
You mean a la Tony BL***?
Oh yes, at least the Commies are passionate and believe what they are saying!
As the decendent (I believe) of a well repected, by some, leading rebel I quite fancy that 8(0(* @)(++(*... but Nah, I am not a commie, and I dont like being labelled as such.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
Here we go...
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 10:44:27 AM
When the peeps have realised their failings in their bullying of the Mccanns and if they can show the humility to acknowledge that ... we in our turn must forget our gripes and hatred of the way they have behaved
... and embrace them, as we have embraced Bren
The film illustrates just how easy it is to get sucked in
It takes a brave person to stand up and admit they were wrong all along. Time for some peps to get their thinking caps on and their humanity back
Well done Carana 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 12:10:32 PM
When the peeps have realised their failings in their bullying of the Mccanns and if they can show the humility to acknowledge that ... we in our turn must forget our gripes and hatred of the way they have behaved
... and embrace them, as we have embraced Bren
The film illustrates just how easy it is to get sucked in
It takes a brave person to stand up and admit they were wrong all along. Time for some peps to get their thinking caps on and their humanity back
Well done Carana 8@??)( 8@??)(
Please promise me sadie that if you are ever offered, for your sterling work on behalf of the McCanns, a free holiday to the lovely country of Guyana and a little something to drink on your arrival, that you won't accept.! @)(++(*
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 12:14:29 PM
Ermm????
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
A little bit of humility and remorse wouldn't hurt you Faith
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 12:19:08 PM
There is at least one person on here who has doubts about the Mccann family, but he doesn't keep putting the boot in like some of you.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 12:30:19 PM
There's something rather cultish (pardon the spelling) about deliberately setting out to recruit people (often vulnerable types who have taken part in internet discussions about their own child abuse experiences) to the Anti McCann cause. In fact it's extremely sinister in my view.
Whether deliberately recruited or not, it often surprises me just how many of the Anti-McCanns who have posted potted biographies have listed their major mental, sexual, social and other issues. It is a very surprising proportion of the numbers who have done so. Individuals have recounted every kind of serious emotional torment from abuse at the hands of nuns to drug problems and via every mental problem that exists. With some it seems almost to be a badge of honour in their postings.
I don't think it is only the McCann case which has seen this phenomenon but is more widely known as a problem as to how such issues are dealt with in society. The Internet has given people a wider audience than previously and allowed people the freedom to come together to discuss their issues. That is no bad thing. But it also allows for a feeling that you are hidden (not true of course) and that the anonymity allows you to express things that really are probably neither safely nor wisely discussed so openly to be discussed in that way. The potential for bullying and manipulation of vulnerable people once they have been so open is immense. The desire for being part of a group is innate and the Internet provides a surrogate group when none is available in the real world. It is attractive. It is enticing and it is dangerous, most especially for those who are vulnerable and have openly disclosed that they are vulnerable.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 12:54:39 PM
There's something rather cultish (pardon the spelling) about deliberately setting out to recruit people (often vulnerable types who have taken part in internet discussions about their own child abuse experiences) to the Anti McCann cause. In fact it's extremely sinister in my view.
Recruit people ? In what way ?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 01:10:10 PM
I think the problem, particularly in the McCann case, is that generally those who doubt the parents are more open about who they are and what they have experienced. Of the supporters this is less true and therefore we have no idea what has shaped their views.
It is a well known, and well used, propaganda tactic to paint anyone who is seen as a threat to be damaged or mentally unusable or 'just not like us' . That is what is happening here and it is as transparent as it is insulting to those of us who can think for themselves.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 01:11:49 PM
There's something rather cultish (pardon the spelling) about deliberately setting out to recruit people (often vulnerable types who have taken part in internet discussions about their own child abuse experiences) to the Anti McCann cause. In fact it's extremely sinister in my view.
Recruit people ? In what way ?
Please don't pretend you are unaware of the deliberate and concerted efforts to recruit people to the Anti McCann cause via Twitter and Facebook.
I am. Please elaborate on how this is done ?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: gilet on June 04, 2013, 01:17:07 PM
I think the problem, particularly in the McCann case, is that generally those who doubt the parents are more open about who they are and what they have experienced. Of the supporters this is less true and therefore we have no idea what has shaped their views.
It is a well known, and well used, propaganda tactic to paint anyone who is seen as a threat to be damaged or mentally unusable or 'just not like us' . That is what is happening here and it is as transparent as it is insulting to those of us who can think for themselves.
As for your first paragraph, you clearly have veered well away from my very valid (I believe) point about the dangers of the Internet for such vulnerable people.
As for your second paragraph. Utter nonsense. I made it very clear that it was not me calling these people "damaged or mentally unusable"(sic) which are your rather crass terms and not mine but the people themselves. It is disingenuous of you to imply that a significant proportion of the anti-McCanns have not described themselves as sexually abused, mentally ill, and otherwise extremely vulnerable.
How is it insulting to point out the simple fact that people who have themselves described their vulnerabilities are doing so in a dangerous way.
I really think you have either misunderstood what I posted or have reacted to what you have read in a rather paranoid way because nothing I posted suggests what you are claiming.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 01:41:38 PM
There's something rather cultish (pardon the spelling) about deliberately setting out to recruit people (often vulnerable types who have taken part in internet discussions about their own child abuse experiences) to the Anti McCann cause. In fact it's extremely sinister in my view.
Whether deliberately recruited or not, it often surprises me just how many of the Anti-McCanns who have posted potted biographies have listed their major mental, sexual, social and other issues. It is a very surprising proportion of the numbers who have done so. Individuals have recounted every kind of serious emotional torment from abuse at the hands of nuns to drug problems and via every mental problem that exists. With some it seems almost to be a badge of honour in their postings.
I don't think it is only the McCann case which has seen this phenomenon but is more widely known as a problem as to how such issues are dealt with in society. The Internet has given people a wider audience than previously and allowed people the freedom to come together to discuss their issues. That is no bad thing. But it also allows for a feeling that you are hidden (not true of course) and that the anonymity allows you to express things that really are probably neither safely nor wisely discussed so openly to be discussed in that way. The potential for bullying and manipulation of vulnerable people once they have been so open is immense. The desire for being part of a group is innate and the Internet provides a surrogate group when none is available in the real world. It is attractive. It is enticing and it is dangerous, most especially for those who are vulnerable and have openly disclosed that they are vulnerable.
The recruitment of people to the Anti McCann caused stepped up several gears recently when the Jimmy Savile and other sex abuse cases came to the fore. Discussions on the internet of sex abuse were deliberately targeted by a small group of rabid Anti McCann cult members who admitted their tactic was to link the McCann name to these recent high profile cases. Subsequently these same Anti McCanns have successfully recruited several hundred people from the "sex abuse" discussions to join them on the Controversy Anti McCann Facebook page, the same page that made the news recently.
A recent Facebook discussion on This Morning page regarding Kate McCann's forgiving of her child's abductor garnered no less than 2,400 mainly negative comments regarding the McCanns. Over 2,000 ordinary people who wether neither 'recruited' or had any prior connection to the McCann case.
A telling snapshot of, when allowed to voice their opinion, the general population's view of this case.
Faithlilly, you have to ask yourself on WHAT the general populations view of the case is based or has been influenced to arrive at that 'view'.
I say that the press/media is largely responsible, especially in the earlier months of reporting on the case, for the influencing of the general population and the shaping of their view.
If one had to select a number of the general population and gauge their opinion at stages: 1. Early media reports only 2. Opinion post files released to public 3. Post announcement of Scotland Yard review statements
Do you think there will have been a shift in opinion (from guilty to possibly not guilty) between no. 1 and no. 2?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 01:47:38 PM
A recent Facebook discussion on This Morning page regarding Kate McCann's forgiving of her child's abductor garnered no less than 2,400 mainly negative comments regarding the McCanns. Over 2,000 ordinary people who wether neither 'recruited' or had any prior connection to the McCann case.
A telling snapshot of, when allowed to voice their opinion, the general population's view of this case.
Perhaps as you have claimed to be unaware of something else on this thread, then this is something else you are unaware of.
There is a concerted effort on anti-McCann sites on every occasion that there is an opportunity to comment on a McCann story to "round up the troops". Threads are opened to encourage those on the sites to post and repost comment after comment.
I am very, very surprised that after all this time you have failed to notice the threads which do this.
When you say 2,000 ordinary people, I say no. Look more carefully. First there are many repeat names, people making more than one comment, people replying to other comments etc. Second, these "ordinary people" are mustered by the anti sites.
I suggest next time if you wish to become aware, you go to one or two of these sites. In particular look out for a well-known stirrer from down under who just loves to lead her fellow [ censored word] to the comment pages. But there are others. The Havern forum is notorious for having threads which urge people to post and so is Hideho's page. Remember the gun threat fiasco?
Not forgetting, compare the amount or portion of the general population who all signed a petition (to Downing Street) to ask for a review of the case.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 01:55:36 PM
Well, the usual suspects currently have a petition to charge the McCann's for....something...(not too clear what exactly) as apparently they think the Justice System is based on some type of popular vote. Let's wait & see how much support it gets.
Also, it's quite funny how they always pretend that it's the "public" making the majority negative comments, when they quite openly brag how many times they've logged in to make comments using aliases & make a concerted effort to persuade their fellow members to do the same. That's what makes it an organised campaign destined to spread lies & rumors & incite hatred. It's a witch hunt, nothing else.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 04:20:42 PM
Faithlilly, you have to ask yourself on WHAT the general populations view of the case is based or has been influenced to arrive at that 'view'.
I say that the press/media is largely responsible, especially in the earlier months of reporting on the case, for the influencing of the general population and the shaping of their view.
If one had to select a number of the general population and gauge their opinion at stages: 1. Early media reports only 2. Opinion post files released to public 3. Post announcement of Scotland Yard review statements
Do you think there will have been a shift in opinion (from guilty to possibly not guilty) between no. 1 and no. 2?
I think in general the British press were very supportive of the McCanns in the few months after the disappearance. It was only post-arguido that that began to change.
That the number of the public who doubt the McCanns seems to have risen after the release of the files, and despite the statements from SY and the strangle hold CR have on newspaper editors, is telling in itself.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 04:23:55 PM
Not forgetting, compare the amount or portion of the general population who all signed a petition (to Downing Street) to ask for a review of the case.
I would think any sane adult would support a review if it brought an end to this case. There is, however, no implicit support of he McCanns, because of that.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 04:28:46 PM
Well, let's face it, they're struggling. Once upon a time there were around 5,000 of them in one forum alone & we all know how that ended. Their FB pages are pathetic & you only have to compare it with the support received on the Find Madeleine FB page, they're so far off you almost feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 05:05:35 PM
I disagree; the press slated the McCann's even prior to being made arguido (Google Leveson enquiry and Martin Brunt Sky reports). And I would like to see your proof that "number of the public who doubt the McCanns seems to have risen after the release of the files".
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 05:08:29 PM
I would think any sane adult would support a review if it brought an end to this case. There is, however, no implicit support of he McCanns, because of that.
If that be the case, why didn't 'these people' sign another petition that was on line demanding the reopening of the case instead of a review? A review will not necessarily bring the case to an end, where as a reopening of the case might do.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 05:13:32 PM
The majority of the public who signed the petition are pro Madeleine, not pro-McCann. There is a difference.
Would the pro-Madeleine group's interest not best be served then to have signed the reopening of the case petition rather than the review the case petition?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Benice on June 04, 2013, 05:15:47 PM
I think in general the British press were very supportive of the McCanns in the few months after the disappearance. It was only post-arguido that that began to change.
That the number of the public who doubt the McCanns seems to have risen after the release of the files, and despite the statements from SY and the strangle hold CR have on newspaper editors, is telling in itself.
What 'stranglehold''? Carter Ruck can do nothing about Newspaper editors if they are not breaking the law.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 06:03:50 PM
Those who do not even have the decency to respect this little girl's absolute right to be regarded as a missing, findable child, in the absence of absolute proof of her death, are acting AGAINST the best interests of the child, not FOR them. It's utterly despicable that they pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 06:08:30 PM
The majority of the public who signed the petition are pro Madeleine, not pro-McCann. There is a difference.
Would the pro-Madeleine group's interest not best be served then to have signed the reopening of the case petition rather than the review the case petition?
That would be the case, if you knew you could trust the PJ to do it properly.
But there have been things happen in this and other cases that have raised many question marks.
I prefer the review first, then the re-opening.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 07:37:46 PM
Those who do not even have the decency to respect this little girl's absolute right to be regarded as a missing, findable child, in the absence of absolute proof of her death, are acting AGAINST the best interests of the child, not FOR them. It's utterly despicable that they pretend otherwise.
No one is stopping her being looked for, and no one who thinks she is likely or probably dead would not report a likely sightiing of her, people do have free minds you know, no book pamphlet or reading any internet blog or forum can turn them into mindless unthinking sheep, unless you think that happens, you have no proof of how many people who dont think she is alive came to that conclusion because of reading one book or forum or even a number of them, over and above reading all sides and all paper reports, tv discussions, interviews, and other types of research >@@(*&)
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 07:45:39 PM
I'm sorry I simply don't agree with you on that, it has been very clearly expressed by some on that horrid FB page that they simply don't want her found, in fact, I think the expression used was that they'd be "gutted" if she was found alive & that's just one example.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 07:49:31 PM
I'm sorry I simply don't agree with you on that, it has been very clearly expressed by some on that horrid FB page that they simply don't want her found, in fact, I think the expression used was that they'd be "gutted" if she was found alive & that's just one example.
I have read one tweet over theyears saying that, over hundreds of thousands and probably millions of comments, to extrapolate from a miniscule at best number, to suggesting that most or even several doubters think that is not on IMO and you know it
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 07:50:50 PM
I'm sorry I simply don't agree with you on that, it has been very clearly expressed by some on that horrid FB page that they simply don't want her found, in fact, I think the expression used was that they'd be "gutted" if she was found alive & that's just one example.
There is one of your number who believes Madeleine is the second coming. Do you all believe that ?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 07:53:22 PM
I'm sorry I simply don't agree with you on that, it has been very clearly expressed by some on that horrid FB page that they simply don't want her found, in fact, I think the expression used was that they'd be "gutted" if she was found alive & that's just one example.
There is one of your number who believes Madeleine is the second coming. Do you all believe that ?
Good point there FL, thank you
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:03:32 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Not forgetting, compare the amount or portion of the general population who all signed a petition (to Downing Street) to ask for a review of the case.
I would think any sane adult would support a review if it brought an end to this case. There is, however, no implicit support of he McCanns, because of that.
Admin Please indicate how this post was edited and why, thank you.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: muratfan on June 04, 2013, 08:07:19 PM
Not forgetting, compare the amount or portion of the general population who all signed a petition (to Downing Street) to ask for a review of the case.
I would think any sane adult would support a review if it brought an end to this case. There is, however, no implicit support of he McCanns, because of that.
Admin Please indicate how this post was edited and why, thank you.
I forgot to give the edit note - Last Edit: Today at 07:16:26 PM by Admin »
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:14:27 PM
Hmm - someone who thinks Madeleine is the second coming versus someone who would be gutted if she was found alive. The former view is certainly a bit strange, the latter view is just downright evil though, wouldn't you agree?
and how do yu know the context of that tweet, what was said before and after? Isnt it possible they were thinking they didnt want her to be alive if she was some sex slave eg??? Not defending it, I dont know why they posted that,but its no worse if that was the case than some [ censored word ] sayng madeleines disappearance is a sign that jesus is coming back to earth!! And kate and gerry are the chosen ones and setting out reasons why they were
Oh dear
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 08:15:41 PM
There are so many more examples of posts like that, in fact, you only need to go to twitter & look at that tag, there's even one utterly deranged person who keeps posting pictures of Madeleine that she's removed the colour from & is insisting it's a photo of a dead child.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:18:10 PM
There are so many more examples of posts like that, in fact, you only need to go to twitter & look at that tag, there's even one utterly deranged person who keeps posting pictures of Madeleine that she's removed the colour from & is insisting it's a photo of a dead child.
Thats what you get in the world wide web especially in a high profile case, again, to brush all doubters of the story with the same brush is not on, not sure why you continue to do it tbh
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: muratfan on June 04, 2013, 08:20:21 PM
Chris Steadman posted a picture of rotting child corpse and said it was Madeleine.
Debbie Butler said she didn't want Madeleine found, as she would have to apologise then.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 08:22:31 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:26:52 PM
There are no circumstances which excuse someone from admitting they would be gutted if a missing child was found alive - none at all. Those who attempt to defend what was said by that repulsive and foul-mouthed individual (& he/she is something of a cult hero amongst the McCann "sceptics") reveal the mindset at work in the Anti camp quite well.
As I suggested earlier, there are, not that I know whether those applied to said tweet, and again, your labelling all *anti* mccanns in the same way as that particular individual if he meant what he said at face value, says more about you than anyone else, and is utterly disingenuous and irrational IMHO
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 08:30:09 PM
Chris Steadman posted a picture of rotting child corpse and said it was Madeleine.
Debbie Butler said she didn't want Madeleine found, as she would have to apologise then.
and? Why should anyone else have to take responsibility or apologise for them? Or be tarred withsame brush? No reason except to discredit ALL people who have doubts usingthe actions and words of an extremely small minority who do such things
how is running blogs posting pictures of doubters and their families and outing internet posters real names and other info about them and making posts here about peoples mothers any better? All because they wont accept blindly whattheyare told? Dont you find that despicable? nothng short of underhanded intimidation
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:32:32 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:37:02 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer
You have missed a crucial point which is - who have organised a campaign against the McCann's - in that post.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 08:39:37 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
they, they, they, as said a million times before, the some they do not equal all they, and nothing you say will change that, in fact its quite insulting, also not all people post on twitter and facebook, and for the record when i was on facebook for a few weeks on that controversy group i did challenge lots of posters on their comments and correct their misconceptions, there a small number of core people who post objectionable stuff day in day out, that goes for YOUR camp as well, why dont you go act as policeman if your so worried about it, alternatively you canjust accept that some people will post things you dont like and the freedom of the internet allows this and just ignore it, RATHER than USING it to beat others up with
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 08:46:45 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer
You have missed a crucial point which is - who have organised a campaign against the McCann's - in that post.
thats not what the discussion was about mostache, anyway, likeminded or newbies people joining a group is something thathappens every day everywhere, where is the campaign? Campaign to do what?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 08:47:10 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
they, they, they, as said a million times before, the some they do not equal all they, and nothing you say will change that, in fact its quite insulting, also not all people post on twitter and facebook, and for the record when i was on facebook for a few weeks on that controversy group i did challenge lots of posters on their comments and correct their misconceptions, there a small number of core people who post objectionable stuff day in day out, that goes for YOUR camp as well, why dont you go act as policeman if your so worried about it, alternatively you canjust accept that some people will post things you dont like and the freedom of the internet allows this and just ignore it, RATHER than USING it to beat others up with
Yes, of course you're such an angel, but even you sought to justify that vile creep Pillowcase's "gutted" comment - say no more. I'm not engaging with you further tonight - I find you too irrational to reason with. Goodnight.
Dont misquote me please if you dont mnd that is, I did not defend it as I said, but offered a possible reason for it, and questioned the context, nothng irrational about that, what is irrational IMO is you and others sayng people who dont accwpt the mccanns story WANT this child to be dead, thats what is otally irrational, bye then Martha 8**8:/:
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 09:00:45 PM
As far as I'm concerned, anyone trying to find any redeeming feature or valid explanation for the utterly disgusting behavior of that poster on twitter is on a losing streak. There is none.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 09:01:41 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer
You have missed a crucial point which is - who have organised a campaign against the McCann's - in that post.
thats not what the discussion was about mostache, anyway, likeminded or newbies people joining a group is something thathappens every day everywhere, where is the campaign? Campaign to do what?
It was what the discussion is about; the cult of personality vs the individual who doesn't subscribe to any cult or campaign.
Campaign - Work in an organized and active way toward a particular goal. The anti McCann campaign. For example the procuring of members to a certain facebook group or spreading propaganda to acquire signatures on a petition to have the McCann's arrested for child neglect, setting up of a foundation to have the McCann's prosecuted for the death of their daughter, pamphletting neighbourhoods and places of work associated with the McCann's and or their associates, a drive - not withstanding the Attorney Generals final report - to smear the McCann's; to spread misinformation and libel them each opportunity that presents itself. That campaign.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: AnneGuedes on June 04, 2013, 09:05:20 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 09:09:43 PM
Don't even know what you are on about tbh but I read earlier that there's one in your camp who think Simon Cowell is the Anti Christ, but I guess that doesn't apply to everybody.
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer
You have missed a crucial point which is - who have organised a campaign against the McCann's - in that post.
thats not what the discussion was about mostache, anyway, likeminded or newbies people joining a group is something thathappens every day everywhere, where is the campaign? Campaign to do what?
It was what the discussion is about; the cult of personality vs the individual who doesn't subscribe to any cult or campaign.
Campaign - Work in an organized and active way toward a particular goal. The anti McCann campaign. For example the procuring of members to a certain facebook group or spreading propaganda to acquire signatures on a petition to have the McCann's arrested for child neglect, setting up of a foundation to have the McCann's prosecuted for the death of their daughter, pamphletting neighbourhoods and places of work associated with the McCann's and or their associates, a drive - not withstanding the Attorney Generals final report - to smear the McCann's; to spread misinformation and libel them each opportunity that presents itself. That campaign.
Very well said!
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: gilet on June 04, 2013, 09:16:37 PM
and how do yu know the context of that tweet, what was said before and after? Isnt it possible they were thinking they didnt want her to be alive if she was some sex slave eg??? Not defending it, I dont know why they posted that,but its no worse if that was the case than some [ censored word ] sayng madeleines disappearance is a sign that jesus is coming back to earth!! And kate and gerry are the chosen ones and setting out reasons why they were
Oh dear
It is far worse.
The former is a perfect example of someone posting something (which in any context) is sick and perverted, while the latter is probably the thought of a caring but misguided individual.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: gilet on June 04, 2013, 09:23:30 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
Please do not try to pretend that you are new to this case and have never delved into fora and other places previously or come across the evil morons who post sick abusive hate before.
In reply to the point you are making, it does not need a person to go seeking these warped individuals. They deliberately swamp any place where the McCann case is discussed and they think they can get away with their vile posting.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: icabodcrane on June 04, 2013, 09:28:57 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
I'm with you Anne ... why on earth would anyone seek out vile posts on twitter or facebook, and then repeat them elsewhere !
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: AnneGuedes on June 04, 2013, 09:34:04 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
I'm with you Anne ... why on earth would anyone seek out vile posts on twitter or facebook, and then repeat them elsewhere !
Thank you so much, Icabodcrane ! I was feeling lonely...
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 09:42:48 PM
Hmm - someone who thinks Madeleine is the second coming versus someone who would be gutted if she was found alive. The former view is certainly a bit strange, the latter view is just downright evil though, wouldn't you agree?
I would Martha.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: faithlilly on June 04, 2013, 09:45:51 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
Excellent post Anne 8@??)(
Strange behaviour indeed !
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
Quite simply because there are certain issues at stake here, one of them being breaching ECHR laws. Which is a recurring theme with those who call themselves McCann skeptics, they tend to be very vocal about their own human rights while completely disregarding the rights of others. Which is exactly what Judge Tugendhat mentioned in his sentencing of one Mr. Anthony Bennett recently.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: AnneGuedes on June 04, 2013, 09:52:02 PM
I don't think so, Faithlilly. I think it's difficult to build one's own values in this pseudo communication world. Define enemies is easier, however imaginary they can be. We're longing for truth, we all do. But what is truth ?
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 09:53:49 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
I doubt Martha intentionally seeks out these posts, as you imply she does. I would hazard a guess you replied the way you did to her, to help yourself feel virtuous.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
The reason why Anti McCanns get tarred with the same brush as these vile individuals we have mentioned is that they very rarely protest about the vile shite that these deranged commentators write and tweet. Oh no, quite the opposite - they praise and applaud instead and follow them assiduously on twitter and FB - implicit approval in other words. That tells you all you need to know.
Martha, how are you so well informed about these "vile individuals", their tweets and social networks ? I've never met them, serendipity or not, moreover it never passed my mind to look for them, I avoid being disgusted ! You seem to chase them in order to despise them... Could it be that it helps you to feel virtuous ?
I doubt Martha intentionally seeks out these posts, as you imply she does. I would hazard a guess you replied the way you did to her, to help yourself feel virtuous.
It's not actually regarded as being "virtuous" to respect laws, it's generally a requirement in most societies today.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: gilet on June 04, 2013, 10:13:46 PM
Anyone who posts or implies that the vile posts of certain anti-McCanns have to be sought out is either deluding themselves or playing games with truth.
No independent reader of this forum would ever believe such utter guff.
The reality is that any place where the McCanns are discussed, where no moderation is done or moderation is biased in favour of the anti McCanns such as on the forum Bennett was/is admin of or Facebook and Twitter, finds trolls and idiots purveying their libel and lies about the McCanns. These libels and lies include utterly evil comments and allegations about the subject of Madeleine and her parents.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mo Stache on June 04, 2013, 10:15:54 PM
Anne. One doesn't have to be religious to be virtuous.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: AnneGuedes on June 04, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Hmm they are not mutually exclusive - whether 'tied' will be an entire new thread.
I know one or two things about the monotheistic religions, Christianity, Judasim and Islam
My basic understanding being, that they all set out a codex for followers to abide by.
A good Samaritan is a good Samaritan - whether his/her name might be Himza, Karl or Joshua.
Of course as an atheist, the concept of religion might be anathema - but I know plenty of atheists - who
are splendid Samaritans - or to take it out of it's biblical context - decent, caring human beings.
Something we should all strive for.
Soap box packed away for the night.
An interesting read - Moral and Virtuous People Don’t Need God Or Mindless Religion Written by Prabhakar Kamath May 21, 2010 http://nirmukta.com/2010/05/21/moral-and-virtuous-people-don%E2%80%99t-need-god-or-mindless-religion/
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2013, 10:48:32 PM
But Simon Cowell has never been involved in this case and I am sure the comment was not in relation to his involvement, but an off the cuff general comment, so not a good example for your argument
Here you go, by poster called vee8 on various pro forums/blogs
Would you agree that that post on that blog is the opinion of the person who wrote it? That he/she is allowed his/her freedom of opinion? Where does it state that she/he represents all the pro McCann's?
How do you draw parallels between groups of people on Facebook and Twitter who have organised a campaign against the McCann's with one persons opinion.
there is no parallel with one persons views and any group, you said it well, theres your answer You have missed a crucial point which is - who have organised a campaign against the McCann's - in that post.
thats not what the discussion was about mostache, anyway, likeminded or newbies people joining a group is something thathappens every day everywhere, where is the campaign? Campaign to do what?
It was what the discussion is about; the cult of personality vs the individual who doesn't subscribe to any cult or campaign.
Campaign - Work in an organized and active way toward a particular goal. The anti McCann campaign. For example the procuring of members to a certain facebook group or spreading propaganda to acquire signatures on a petition to have the McCann's arrested for child neglect, setting up of a foundation to have the McCann's prosecuted for the death of their daughter, pamphletting neighbourhoods and places of work associated with the McCann's and or their associates, a drive - not withstanding the Attorney Generals final report - to smear the McCann's; to spread misinformation and libel them each opportunity that presents itself. That campaign.
there might be a tiny campaign with a dozen or so people but nothng like what you are suggesting, on any masse scale, all those actions are disparate afaiaa and a total drop in any ocean, why make such a big deal of them, just ignore, no different to people writing to watchdog with their complaints, and NO, the discussion when i joined it was not about the OP, but since you bring that into it, was the Op an OP to talk about these people? if so why not say so? To start with?
Again the fact that some say people are n a cult following certain tweeters bloggers etc is quite ludicrous imo, you can and are influencedby wherever youpost, thats a fact, but only a sheep would not make up their own mind and there i no proof anyone has made up anyones minds for them, also why is not the mccanns FB not a cult? I mean, there is no dissention there, any is deleted pdq, a rule of cults is they allow none, I dont see theFB contro page not alowing dissenting posts, let alone trying and spending donated money to ban books and silencing people through the courts >@@(*&)
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Mrs. B on June 04, 2013, 11:09:46 PM
Maybe that is the way with people who were Catholic; I wouldn't know
Yes, looks that way, can't say it is something that keeps me awake at night. But then, I was never threatened with purgatory, hell & all that jazz so I wouldn't know what that would be like.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 11:15:31 PM
Red - may I call you that?
I personally don't think you have a campaign going against the McCanns
But what are your views on Anthony Bennett printing hundreds of leaflets with Madeleine's face on them
to distribute all around Rothley - with a darn good chance of the twins picking up a leaflet on way to play school
(at the time) and asking an older kid to explain to them what Mr. Bennett was insinuating about their parents?
That's a real life campaign - not a virtual campaign right there - and I don't know how the potential trauma placed on the twins could EVER be justified.
Tugendhat - it appears, agrees.
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: Redblossom on June 04, 2013, 11:34:53 PM
I personally don't think you have a campaign going against the McCanns
But what are your views on Anthony Bennett printing hundreds of leaflets with Madeleine's face on them
to distribute all around Rothley - with a darn good chance of the twins picking up a leaflet on way to play school
(at the time) and asking an older kid to explain to them what Mr. Bennett was insinuating about their parents?
That's a real life campaign - not a virtual campaign right there - and I don't know how the potential trauma placed on the twins could EVER be justified.
Tugendhat - it appears, agrees.
It was out of order IMO
I dont know what it was supposed to have achieved opposite to his writing to mps privately
i have never done direct action against anything except for parking permit attendants and slapping me with 100 quid fine for being 30 seconds over a grace period and outside my own house when i had a guest whose resident guest scratchcard wasnt filled in in time
I did write to ofcomthe once after that documentary the mccanns made was aired, to complain about channel 4s so called cutting edge about the misrepresentations, thats it though as was my right to reply I do not police and am not responsiblle and wont be forced to apologise for anyone in the world wide webs behaviour on this case or be tarred with same brush, simple as that
Title: Re: the cult of personality
Post by: registrar on June 04, 2013, 11:40:05 PM
I dont know what it was supposed to have achieved opposite to his writing to mps privately
i have never done direct action against anything except for parking permit attendants and slapping me with 100 quid fine for being 30 seconds over a grace period and outside my own house when i had a guest whose resident guest scratchcard wasnt filled in in time
I did write to ofcomthe once after that documentary the mccanns made was aired, to complain about channel 4s so called cutting edge about the misrepresentations, thats it though as was my right to reply I do not police and am not responsiblle and wont be forced to apologise for anyone in the world wide webs behaviour on this case or be tarred with same brush, simple as that