UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: adam on May 24, 2017, 10:55:36 AM
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Had the relatives ever been in trouble with the law before ?
Did the relatives know there was no other evidence which showed Sheila was the killer.
Did the relatives know about back splatter.
Did the relatives know there was no back splatter already on the rifle nozzle.
Did the relatives know that one of Sheila's shots was a contact shot.
Did the relatives know the rifle with the silencer on was too long for Sheila to shoot herself.
Did the relatives know where to get Sheila's blood.
If unable to get Sheila's blood, did the relatives know what blood type she was.
Did the relatives know who in the family had Sheila's blood type.
Did the relatives know how to expertly put Sheila's blood/blood type into the silencer. Creating the back splatter effect.
Did the relatives know when WHF was empty so they could go back and scratch the aga.
Did the relatives know how to scratch the aga to suggest a kitchen fight.
Did the relatives know that the crime scene photos did not already include pictures of the aga without the scratch's.
Did the relatives know where to get a strand of Nevill's hair.
Did the relatives know the risks in attempting this frame and the punishment if found.
Did the relatives know that each other could be completely trusted in a big crime committe
15
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Hopefully there will be some good answers to these questions. It has been extremley hard work on the blue forum with these questions.
Only one poster answered all 16 questions and that was on the basis that the relatives also committed the massacre !
The questions were created after a poster said the relatives fabricated the silencer. Then instantly the same poster said she "doesn't need to address any questions" to support her serious accusation.
Yesterday another poster accused the relatives of fabricating the silencer. But after several requests only 4 of the 16 questions were answered. Unconvincingly in my view.
Another poster surfaced on the thread but that was just to post creepy 'gish gash' posts in red. Which meant nothing and did not answer any of the questions.
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Had the relatives ever been in trouble with the law before ?
No idea but BW made an official complaint to EP about PE and what she considered was financial irregularity.
Did the relatives know there was no other evidence which showed Sheila was the killer.
Well Chief Sup Harris and DCI Jones seemed pretty certain SC was responsible in the early stages. DCI Kennelly (spelling) undertook a further review and formed the same opinion.
Did the relatives know about back splatter.
They were obviously knowledgable about firearms in the context of farming/hunting but unlikely to be forensically aware. I have asked farmer friends and they inform me the only time blood from an animal comes into contact with a firearm is where something has been wounded and is then put out its misery be breaking its neck and blood from hands then touches the firearm 8)><(
Did the relatives know there was no back splatter already on the rifle nozzle.
Only if they made enquiries or were told.
Did the relatives know that one of Sheila's shots was a contact shot.
Only if they made enquiries or were told.
Did the relatives know the rifle with the silencer on was too long for Sheila to shoot herself.
You asked this in the other thread.
Did the relatives know where to get Sheila's blood.
Not in sufficient quantity to produce the blood group results from inside the silencer
If unable to get Sheila's blood, did the relatives know what blood type she was.
Unlikely they even knew SC's ABO group. I think we can safely assume they would have zero idea about SC's enzyme and protein groups.
Did the relatives know who in the family had Sheila's blood type.
Extremley unlikely
Did the relatives know how to expertly put Sheila's blood/blood type into the silencer. Creating the back splatter effect.
The blood found in the silencer wasn't compatible with drawback in terms of the stain pattern. GSW's produce a mist like spray not flakes. Unlikely the relatives were this forensically aware.
Did the relatives know when WHF was empty so they could go back and scratch the aga.
Yes. They had the free run of WHF from about 5pm 9th Aug when police handed keys over. I have always thought it strange how PE and Cris Nevill stayed in CN's campervan on night of 10th Aug ostensibly to maintain security and protect the valuables. This makes little sense to me. A newly fitted alarm had been fitted. And during the day on 10th Aug all valuables were removed including firearms.
Did the relatives know how to scratch the aga to suggest a kitchen fight.
I haven't seen any expert evidence analysing the scratches in terms of whether or not they supported a fight. I don't think anyone including staff at FSS were that forensically aware then.
Did the relatives know that the crime scene photos did not already include pictures of the aga without the scratch's.
Unlikely unless they asked or were told by others
Did the relatives know where to get a strand of Nevill's hair.
Yes they would be all over the place: car, back of chairs, hats, coats, jackets, combs.
Did the relatives know the risks in attempting this frame and the punishment if found.
We don't know the relatives attempted a frame. If they did they might have been aided and abetted by the police and thought it was ok and they would get away with it.
Did the relatives know that each other could be completely trusted in a big crime committe
We don't they were involved in anything criminal. If they were it may have amounted to one or two.
Phew &%5y% What do all these questions and answers mean Adam?
Have you considered that the blood on the outside, paint and hair might have been fabricated to create the idea the silencer was used. Ie it may have been initially geared towards NB was beaten with it hence the paint and hair (blood externally unknown). When this was deemed insufficient others fabricated the blood internally and blood test results as we know them.
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Thanks. Hopefully it only took 5 minutes to answer. It only took me 5 minuted to type the questions after another poster accused the relatives of fabricating the silencer.
A lot of these questions relate to obstacles the relatives had in attempting a frame. So need answers to either show these obstacles could be overcome, or that they couldn't.
From you're answers it seems you do not believe the relatives fabricated the silencer. As they would have to find out a lot of specific information which Taff wasn't going to tell them & Stan Jones may not know. Officers may also get suspiscious if too many detailed questions were asked.
You have also said it is very unlikely that the relatives could get Sheila's blood or knew what blood type she was.
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Thanks. Hopefully it only took 5 minutes to answer. It only took me 5 minuted to type the questions after another poster accused the relatives of fabricating the silencer.
A lot of these questions relate to obstacles the relatives had in attempting a frame. So need answers to either show these obstacles could be overcome, or that they couldn't.
From you're answers it seems you do not believe the relatives fabricated the silencer. As they would have to find out a lot of specific information which Taff wasn't going to tell them & Stan Jones may not know. You have also said it is very unlikely that the relatives could get Sheila's blood or knew what blood type she was.
As I said I think it is possible two frames existed. Initially an attempt to demonstrate the silencer was used and put away. The idea at that time was possibly to show it had been attached when NB sustained a beating hence the paint and hair. Blood tests on the outside were inconclusive. It's unclear (to me) when victims' blood samples were handed over to EP. If EP were still in possession of them when the silencer went to FSS on 13th Aug then it may have been NB's blood on the outside. If EP knew it wasn't possible to type such a small sample they may have added anyone's blood.
The flake found inside the silencer wasn't identified until 12th Sept. This was sophisticated for the time and if fabricated involved person(s) forensically aware. Difficult to see how this didn't involve the lab. I would suggest a senior member of EP, DCI level or higher and a senior manager at FSS along with a practitioner. Obviously this was all done on the basis all concerned believed JB guilty aka noble cause corruption.
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Looking at the answers and other posters unable to answer the relatives & Stan Jones questions, it can be concluded it was impossible for either to frame Bamber single handedly.
Only two conclusions can be reached -
Stan Jones & the relstives worked together in the frame:
Stan Jones attempting a solo frame, still needed the relatives to lie in their witness statements and say they found the silencer.
The relatives didn't have Sheila's blood or enough crime scene information to individually frame Bamber.
Neither Stan Jones or the relatives framed Bamber:
The silencer was found by the relatives with blood, paint and a white hair. After tests it came back as human & Sheila's blood and the aga paint. There was no fabricating.
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Adam according to AE when DS Jones was taking paint samples from AGA he said to AE if anyone asks what we're doing here "we're just measuring up". I guess this could be because they were up to no good or they didn't want others to know about the paint on the silencer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3586
It doesn't fill me with confidence they were acting professionally when again according to AE DS Jones removed a pair of SC's shoes and said "you haven't seen this"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3588
DS Jones and DI Miller then went over to Oak Farm and spent an hour polishing off a bottle of whisky between them with PE. According to AE they weren't drunk when they left. That's reassuring then! Hic, hic, hic *&*%£
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3594;image
Typical bottle of spirit = 700ml
Typical strength of whisky = 40% abv
700ml x 40%abv/1000ml = 28 units/3 persons = 9.33 units per person. Almost certain DS Jones and DI Miller were over the drink drive limit.
Lets all party on down at the farm 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(
Did DS Jones have a drink problem? He drank alcohol at JB's on 7th Aug after taking JB's WS. Then on 12th Aug at Oak Farm when he picked up the silencer. And as above. Or was this just a cultural thing then?
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Adam according to AE when DS Jones was taking paint samples from AGA he said to AE if anyone asks what we're doing here "we're just measuring up". I guess this could be because they were up to no good or they didn't want others to know about the paint on the silencer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3586
It doesn't fill me with confidence they were acting professionally when again according to AE DS Jones removed a pair of SC's shoes and said "you haven't seen this"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3588
DS Jones and DI Miller then went over to Oak Farm and spent an hour polishing off a bottle of whisky between them with PE. According to AE they weren't drunk when they left. That's reassuring then! Hic, hic, hic *&*%£
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3594;image
Typical bottle of spirit = 700ml
Typical strength of whisky = 40% abv
700ml x 40%abv/1000ml = 28 units/3 persons = 9.33 units per person. Almost certain DS Jones and DI Miller were over the drink drive limit.
Lets all party on down at the farm 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(
Did DS Jones have a drink problem? He drank alcohol at JB's on 7th Aug after taking JB's WS. Then on 12th Aug at Oak Farm when he picked up the silencer. And as above. Or was this just a cultural thing then?
Not sure what Stan Jones drinking has got to do with the silencer.
Do you believe it was a joint effort or that there was no fabricating at all ?
Must admit it is surprising that several law abiding citizens & a police officer jointly & suddenly became so devious. Stan Jones didn't even have any potential financial rewards.
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Adam according to AE when DS Jones was taking paint samples from AGA he said to AE if anyone asks what we're doing here "we're just measuring up". I guess this could be because they were up to no good or they didn't want others to know about the paint on the silencer.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3586
It doesn't fill me with confidence they were acting professionally when again according to AE DS Jones removed a pair of SC's shoes and said "you haven't seen this"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3588
DS Jones and DI Miller then went over to Oak Farm and spent an hour polishing off a bottle of whisky between them with PE. According to AE they weren't drunk when they left. That's reassuring then! Hic, hic, hic *&*%£
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3594;image
Typical bottle of spirit = 700ml
Typical strength of whisky = 40% abv
700ml x 40%abv/1000ml = 28 units/3 persons = 9.33 units per person. Almost certain DS Jones and DI Miller were over the drink drive limit.
Lets all party on down at the farm 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(
Did DS Jones have a drink problem? He drank alcohol at JB's on 7th Aug after taking JB's WS. Then on 12th Aug at Oak Farm when he picked up the silencer. And as above. Or was this just a cultural thing then?
I think it was very much a cultural thing. It was seen as a way of bonding. It loosened tongues. Some were very skilled at appearing to be much more inebriated than they actually were.
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Adam according to AE when DS Jones was taking paint samples from AGA he said to AE if anyone asks what we're doing here "we're just measuring up". I guess this could be because they were up to no good or they didn't want others to know about the paint on the silencer.
Definitely the latter, because SJ didn't want AE giving Jeremy Bamber advance warning of what they discovered in case he was later questioned about the hidden moderator. Ron Cook took the sample, not Stan Jones.
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Not sure what Stan Jones drinking has got to do with the silencer.
Do you believe it was a joint effort or that there was no fabricating at all ?
Must admit it is surprising that several law abiding citizens & a police officer jointly & suddenly became so devious. Stan Jones didn't even have any potential financial rewards.
Today drinking on duty would be a disciplinary offence. If drinking on the job wasn't the norm in 1985 then it might show DS Jones was somewhat of a liability!
You need to bear in mind the blood on the outside was minimal and not capable of being typed. A complete contrast with the blood found iJnside. Did the relatives have access to any watery blood? Or if they were just attempting to show it was on when NB sustained a beating a blood relative of NB's may have fabricated it on the basis they may have shared the same blood group or just hoped to wing it. All unlikely I'm just putting it out there. On balance I think it was more likely a boy in blue from EP. I don't like to name names without firm evidence.
If the police believe someone is responsible for a serious crime and fear the perp getting off then they may well fabricate evidence. We know it happens. If the rellies were also convinced they may have gone along with it. Maybe they didnt inspect it and believed what they were told by the police ie blood, paint and hair.
We don't know whether any police offer was offered any inducements. What conversations took place over these bottles of whisky. If no financial inducement then maybe it was a power thing ie playing God.
Man U winning Europa league final.
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I think it was very much a cultural thing. It was seen as a way of bonding. It loosened tongues. Some were very skilled at appearing to be much more inebriated than they actually were.
Maybe. Did they drink in tv cop shows mid 80's I can't recall.
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Maybe. Did they drink in tv cop shows mid 80's I can't recall.
Kojak sucked lollies 8(>((
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Kojak sucked lollies 8(>((
Bourbon-flavored?
(N.B. note the correct Yankee spelling).
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Bourbon-flavored?
(N.B. note the correct Yankee spelling).
You're on the ball this morning, Myster @)(++(*
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As I said I think it is possible two frames existed. Initially an attempt to demonstrate the silencer was used and put away. The idea at that time was possibly to show it had been attached when NB sustained a beating hence the paint and hair. Blood tests on the outside were inconclusive. It's unclear (to me) when victims' blood samples were handed over to EP. If EP were still in possession of them when the silencer went to FSS on 13th Aug then it may have been NB's blood on the outside. If EP knew it wasn't possible to type such a small sample they may have added anyone's blood.
The flake found inside the silencer wasn't identified until 12th Sept. This was sophisticated for the time and if fabricated involved person(s) forensically aware. Difficult to see how this didn't involve the lab. I would suggest a senior member of EP, DCI level or higher and a senior manager at FSS along with a practitioner. Obviously this was all done on the basis all concerned believed JB guilty aka noble cause corruption.
The notion that the extended family were involved in any frame is simply too silly to be even considered likely. Its one thing to take some commercial advantage from the murders but quite another to involve oneself in attempting to pervert the course of justice in a mass murder investigation. I think the straw grasping has become just a tad illogical.
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The notion that the extended family were involved in any frame is simply too silly to be even considered likely. Its one thing to take some commercial advantage from the murders but quite another to involve oneself in attempting to pervert the course of justice in a mass murder investigation. I think the straw grasping has become just a tad illogical.
I agree it does seem unbelievable.
John what do you make of the fact AE didn't include the finding of the silencer on 10th Aug in her WS of 14th Aug?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7561.msg382195#msg382195
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Looking at the answers and other posters unable to answer the relatives & Stan Jones questions, it can be concluded it was impossible for either to frame Bamber single handedly.
Only two conclusions can be reached -
Stan Jones & the relstives worked together in the frame:
Stan Jones attempting a solo frame, still needed the relatives to lie in their witness statements and say they found the silencer.
The relatives didn't have Sheila's blood or enough crime scene information to individually frame Bamber.
Neither Stan Jones or the relatives framed Bamber:
The silencer was found by the relatives with blood, paint and a white hair. After tests it came back as human & Sheila's blood and the aga paint. There was no fabricating.
No, not necessarily so.
Adam have you considered the following:
- The blood found on the outside of the silencer, paint and hair on 10th Aug might have been totally separate from the blood found inside the silencer on 12th Sep. By this I mean the person(s) involved in any fabrication and objectives of such may have been completely different:
- Blood on the outside, paint and hair may have been fabricated to advance the idea the silencer was attached when NB sustained a beating in the kitchen which if true would point away from SC and towards JB. A low ranking officer at DS level may have been responsible for this. When the silencer was first analysed at lab on 13th Aug the blood on the outside wasn't capable of being grouped. If this 'evidence' was subsequently put to senior officers etc they may have said it was incapable of getting the case to court: Blood inconclusive. Scratch could have happened any time. Grey hair lost in transit. All pretty meaningless. Would a jury convict on this? Probably not even if it got to court. At this stage the inside of the silencer may not have been fabricated (if that is what happened) and 'drawback' may not even have been considered.
- You said if the silencer was fabricated the relatives and police needed to work together but this isn't necessarily so. The silencer loomed large in the minds of the relatives from the off. They repeated this info to EP during the very early stages of the investigation: 7th, 8th and 9th Aug. On 8th Aug JB was asked to complete another WS explaining the silencer/scope. The same day AP phoned EP re scope/silencer. Later on 8th Aug Dr Vanezis attended a meeting at WHF where DS Jones was in attendance and apparently he was the only dissenter from the murder/suicide theory. On 9th Aug morning the relatives attended a meeting at EP offices with DCI Jones and DS Jones where once again the silencer and scope were homed in on. Later the same day DCI Jones and DS Jones handed the keys over to the Eatons and went over the new alarm system with them. It is possible then that DS Jones single handedly fabricated the silencer by re-entering WHF at some stage leaving a nice surprise for the relatives! The property obviously couldn't be bolted from within. DS Jones had access to the alarm code and the key for the new door which at some stage he might have copied or taken a cast of to get cut later. Or he may have entered via a window, turned the alarm off, left the silencer and then out the door. Or this may have happened prior to the alarm fitted.
In the Killing Mum and Dad vid DS Jones states 'knowing he'd committed all these murders' and 'just had to pray something else would turn up'. @ 26 min in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU
To my mind DS Jones seems a complete liability. He didn't know JB had committed the murders. There's a big difference between knowing something and having a hunch. All the talk about going through hell and leading a double life. And what made him think he knew more than his senior officers who he reported to? Dr Vanezis said DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value it was all based on JB's reactions.
DS Jones took centre stage during all aspects of the investigation:
- At soc/WHF on 7th Aug
- Took JB's WS's on 7th Aug followed by a drinking session
- Took further WS from JB on 8th Aug
- Attended mtg with Dr Vanezis at WHF on 8th Aug
- Attended mtg with relatives at EP offices on 9th Aug where DCI Jones became irrate with AE 'stop writing' 8()(((@# @)(++(*
- Collected silencer from relatives alone followed by a drinking session.
- Collected paint sample from Aga along with DI's Cook and Miller followed by a drinking session
- Took all JM's WS's
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Again it's stretching the bounds of credulity to suggest a police officer set out to deliberately pervert the course of justice, against the advice of his seniors, thereby risking his career, reputation and pension in order to frame an innocent man just because of a hunch. Only for the naive and gullible I'm afraid.
And why would Ann Eaton mention the silencer in a written statement where she was only writing about Sheila.
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Again it's stretching the bounds of credulity to suggest a police officer set out to deliberately pervert the course of justice, against the advice of his seniors, thereby risking his career, reputation and pension in order to frame an innocent man just because of a hunch. Only for the naive and gullible I'm afraid.
And why would Ann Eaton mention the silencer in a written statement where she was only writing about Sheila.
I am afraid police wrongdoing does happen Steve. More so during the 80's before PACE. If police officers were deterred from wrongdoing by loss of careers, reputations, pensions etc then I guess we wouldn't have police wrongdoing or not on the scale we have witnessed.
You can listen to DS Jones in the link I posted above. He claims he knew JB was guilty and had to pray something would turn up.
Why would EP not keep a complete audit trail of a blood stained exhibit found at the soc? An exhibit which was an accessory to the firearm used in a major incident whereby 5 people died. At best this is too sloppy for words.
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Police wrong doing does happen, yes. We are lucky in this country that we have the best and most professional police service in the world and thankfully corruption is rare.
But again this is drawing us back into the realms of a conspiracy theory in order to frame an innocent man of murder. Even honest police officers have to rely on hunches to solve crimes, and to suggest that there is some conspiracy flies in the face of the overwhelming mountain of forensic, physical and circumstantial evidence that proves otherwise is grasping at straws.
And you can't compare actual miscarriages of justice such as the Birmingham 6 and Stefan Kiszko with this case.
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I am afraid police wrongdoing does happen Steve. More so during the 80's before PACE. If police officers were deterred from wrongdoing by loss of careers, reputations, pensions etc then I guess we wouldn't have police wrongdoing or not on the scale we have witnessed.
You can listen to DS Jones in the link I posted above. He claims he knew JB was guilty and had to pray something would turn up.
Why would EP not keep a complete audit trail of a blood stained exhibit found at the soc? An exhibit which was an accessory to the firearm used in a major incident whereby 5 people died. At best this is too sloppy for words.
"To my mind DS Jones seems a complete liability. He didn't know JB had committed the murders. There's a big difference between knowing something and having a hunch. All the talk about going through hell and leading a double life. And what made him think he knew more than his senior officers who he reported to? Dr Vanezis said DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value it was all based on JB's reactions"
8()(((@# &%&£(+
Stan Jones was a genuine copper and the shining star of the investigation, who knew in his heart that Bamber had done it. Why on earth would SJ risk demotion or even worse by refusing to tow the Taff Jones line if he didn't truly believe he was guilty?
https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=26m30s (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=26m30s)
Many crimes are solved on hunches. Take Tracie Andrews for example... detectives must have realised that there was something fishy about her phony road-rage story, so they put her in the press hot seat to see if she'd crack under questioning. But Andrews, like Bamber, was so hard-faced she thought she'd get away with it.
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Police wrong doing does happen, yes. We are lucky in this country that we have the best and most professional police service in the world and thankfully corruption is rare.
But again this is drawing us back into the realms of a conspiracy theory in order to frame an innocent man of murder. Even honest police officers have to rely on hunches to solve crimes, and to suggest that there is some conspiracy flies in the face of the overwhelming mountain of forensic, physical and circumstantial evidence that proves otherwise is grasping at straws.
And you can't compare actual miscarriages of justice such as the Birmingham 6 and Stefan Kiszko with this case.
According to the Met's website for 2017:
1 Referral to IPCC
5 Dismissals
1 Misconduct warning
3 Convictions
The above is the Met only for the first 5 months of the year.
http://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/misconduct
I could go on and on Steve:
https://www.herts.police.uk/pdf/misconduct_hearings_april_2016_september_2016.pd
Nothing wrong with hunches so long as they are then supported by strong evidence. What can happen is that officers have hunches and then go about fabricating evidence to support the hunch.
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"To my mind DS Jones seems a complete liability. He didn't know JB had committed the murders. There's a big difference between knowing something and having a hunch. All the talk about going through hell and leading a double life. And what made him think he knew more than his senior officers who he reported to? Dr Vanezis said DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value it was all based on JB's reactions"
8()(((@# &%&£(+
Stan Jones was a genuine copper and the shining star of the investigation, who knew in his heart that Bamber had done it. Why on earth would SJ risk demotion or even worse by refusing to tow the Taff Jones line if he didn't truly believe he was guilty?
https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=26m30s (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=26m30s)
Many crimes are solved on hunches. Take Tracie Andrews for example... detectives must have realised that there was something fishy about her phony road-rage story, so they put her in the press hot seat to see if she'd crack under questioning. But Andrews, like Bamber, was so hard-faced she thought she'd get away with it.
DS Jones truly believing JB guilty doesn't make it so. How many mass shooting did DS Jones have experience of? This case is about complex forensics: ballistics, pathology of gunshot wounds and blood pattern analysis. All of which were way beyond even the expert witnesses let alone any member of EP.
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Nothing wrong with hunches so long as they are then supported by strong evidence. What can happen is that officers have hunches and then go about fabricating evidence to support the hunch.
Lest us forget, this hunch was supported by an overwhelming mountain of evidence proving Jeremy was the perpetrator.
With respect to you I think it's below the belt to accuse an honest, down to earth good bloke like Stan Jones of corruption in order to fit a square peg into your round hole.
This is straight from the Mike Tesko school of justice for Jeremy Bamber
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According to the Met's website for 2017:
1 Referral to IPCC
5 Dismissals
1 Misconduct warning
3 Convictions
The above is the Met only for the first 5 months of the year.
http://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/misconduct
I could go on and on Steve:
https://www.herts.police.uk/pdf/misconduct_hearings_april_2016_september_2016.pd
Nothing wrong with hunches so long as they are then supported by strong evidence. What can happen is that officers have hunches and then go about fabricating evidence to support the hunch.
The above link isn't working so here's the pdf
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DS Jones truly believing JB guilty doesn't make it so. How many mass shooting did DS Jones have experience of? This case is about complex forensics: ballistics, pathology of gunshot wounds and blood pattern analysis. All of which were way beyond even the expert witnesses let alone any member of EP.
No,, but the mountain of evidence does. And you are continually ignoring it.
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No,, but the mountain of evidence does. And you are continually ignoring it.
What "mountain of evidence" are you referring to?
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Sorry, It's all here but the innocent camp choose to ignore it:
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html)
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Lest us forget, this hunch was supported by an overwhelming mountain of evidence proving Jeremy was the perpetrator.
With respect to you I think it's below the belt to accuse an honest, down to earth good bloke like Stan Jones of corruption in order to fit a square peg into your round hole.
This is straight from the Mike Tesko school of justice for Jeremy Bamber
Adam said the silencer could only have been fabricated if the police (DS Jones) and the relatives worked together. I showed this wasn't necessarily so.
I haven't said DS Jones or anyone fabricated the silencer. I refer you to my responses to Adam's questions:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8234.msg408103#msg408103
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Sorry, It's all here but the innocent camp choose to ignore it:
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html)
Most high profile long running miscarriages of justice have a long history of their cases going to and fro before the appeal courts before they are eventually quashed:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8094.msg403462#msg403462
The judgement you refer to doesn't tackle the core issues:
ballistics
blood stain analysis
pathology of gunshot wounds
The judgement is now 14 years old. The world moves on at a rapid pace. I strongly believe the next appeal hearing will be devastating for the prosecution.
Beautiful evening. Must dash to catch the last rays of the day 8(>((
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These aren't core issues it's riding on a wing and a prayer.
Have a lovely evening Holly, Bank holiday is now forecast for rain so enjoy while it lasts.
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And lest us forget his last appeal saw him slapped down as a vexatious litigant...
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These aren't core issues it's riding on a wing and a prayer.
Have a lovely evening Holly, Bank holiday is now forecast for rain so enjoy while it lasts.
Looks like the nice weather is now due to stay with us for a little longer than first anticipated. Time to dust off the barbies 8(>((
What do you believe the core issues are underpinning JB's conviction?
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And lest us forget his last appeal saw him slapped down as a vexatious litigant...
Well firstly it happens all the time. Very few high profile long running MOJs are successful first time:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=mn8qtlbvsjkpej4mvevujsj450&topic=8094.msg403462#msg403462
Secondly the appeal was put together by Michael Turner QC who only took silk in 2002:
https://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/michael-turner-qc/
Why the system allows someone with little experience in the role to take on such a complex high profile case is anyone's guess.
Thirdly the CCRC must have thought the application had merit otherwise they wouldn't have referred to CoA. Although I do understand and accept the reasons why it ended up going nowhere.
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Looks like the nice weather is now due to stay with us for a little longer than first anticipated. Time to dust off the barbies 8(>((
What do you believe the core issues are underpinning JB's conviction?
Indeed, they changed the forecast again, it showed rain drops on sunday now it's back to sunny.
In a nutshell, All the evidence which proves Sheila could not possibly have done it and points to him so obviously being the perpetrator.
I sincerely don't see how there can be even the slightest doubt about his conviction.
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Indeed, they changed the forecast again, it showed rain drops on sunday now it's back to sunny.
In a nutshell, All the evidence which proves Sheila could not possibly have done it and points to him so obviously being the perpetrator.
I sincerely don't see how there can be even the slightest doubt about his conviction.
I like sunny 8(>((
Such as?
Many don't share your views including myself. I accept some are cranks (I'm obviously not one of them!) but you could hardly put the likes of former Tory MP Andrew Hunter and Michael Turner QC into this category.
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I like sunny 8(>((
Such as?
Many don't share your views including myself. I accept some are cranks (I'm obviously not one of them!) but you could hardly put the likes of former Tory MP Andrew Hunter and Michael Turner QC into this category.
The lengthy catalogue of related circumstances surrounding Nevill's 3 AM call are damning for me and leave no doubt that this creature is where he belongs.
I should point out that once upon a time (until circa 2011) I was also manipulated by this man into believing this was a miscarriage, so I certainly don't look down or think any less of those who don't share my view.
In fact I am angry at Bamber for fooling me for a considerable length of time, for continuing to protest his innocence, hurting his surviving family and doing no end of damage to the good cause of righting judicial wrongs. For example you could be using your talents on an actual miscarriage of justice right now, but that is your opinion which you are entitled to.
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The lengthy catalogue of related circumstances surrounding Nevill's 3 AM call are damning for me and leave no doubt that this vile creature is where he belongs.
I should point out that once upon a time (until circa 2011) I was also manipulated by this monster into believing this was a miscarriage, so I certainly don't look down or think any less of those who don't share my view.
In fact I am angry at Bamber for fooling me for a considerable length of time, for continuing to protest his innocence, hurting his surviving family and doing no end of damage to the good cause of righting judicial wrongs. For example you could be using your talents on an actual miscarriage of justice right now, but that is your opinion which you are entitled to.
What made you change your mind?
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What made you change your mind?
Good morning Caroline. I'm not sure the exact occurrence or if it happened overnight. I do recall reading the other forum on one occasion, someone was making a good point on something that I agreed with, and they were shut down by the others in quite a nasty way, ridiculed even. I thought hang on a minute...
It dawned on me how much JB propaganda and mis-information is out there. For example 'the trick of the light' incident. I started from scratch, stopped getting my information from forums and the media and read a couple of books instead.
Perhaps what nailed it was the 3 AM call and all the connotations of it. The accumulation of all the little stretches of ones imagination required in order to believe Jeremy's narrative.
As somebody else on this site is so fond of saying, the devil is in the detail.
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Good morning Caroline. I'm not sure the exact occurrence or if it happened overnight. I do recall reading the other forum on one occasion, someone was making a good point on something that I agreed with, and they were shut down by the others in quite a nasty way, ridiculed even. I thought hang on a minute...
It dawned on me how much JB propaganda and mis-information is out there. For example 'the trick of the light' incident. I started from scratch, stopped getting my information from forums and the media and read a couple of books instead.
Perhaps what nailed it was the 3 AM call and all the connotations of it. The accumulation of all the little stretches of ones imagination required in order to believe Jeremy's narrative.
As somebody else on this site is so fond of saying, the devil is in the detail.
Hi Steve,
Yes, same for me but also Bamber himself, he picks and chooses which questions to answer and I found that, very strange.