Could the alerts in 5a have been caused by previous CSI chemicals?

[Brietta]

I thought that was a good point.  If we can see traces of Luminol we might think we are approaching a crime scene.  So they must have thoroughly cleaned the apartment after the PJ left.
No doubt the dog could sense luminol.  How that alters Eddie's response is unknown.

I agree with G-Unit that the unnamed chemical used was probably Luminol.

We have only seen video of areas associated with McCann which makes it impossible to assess the dog's reaction on approach to other places ... but Martin Grime makes reference to the dog becoming excitable as he walked along the pathway to the door of 5A.
To the extent that he did not obey the 'sit' command prior to entry.  We saw it demonstrated in the garage sequence that he was trained to sit and then given the command to search.

We've seen the window which the dog had to pass covered in dragon's blood (fingerprint powder) precisely the area as noted by Martin Grime, where his intense interest began.
We have also seen his lengthy inspection of the apartment sniffing everywhere and anywhere before eventually barking.

[Robittybob1]

What parts still covered in dragon blood 3 months later?

[Sunny]

I agree with G-Unit that the unnamed chemical used was probably Luminol.

We have only seen video of areas associated with McCann which makes it impossible to assess the dog's reaction on approach to other places ... but Martin Grime makes reference to the dog becoming excitable as he walked along the pathway to the door of 5A.
To the extent that he did not obey the 'sit' command prior to entry.  We saw it demonstrated in the garage sequence that he was trained to sit and then given the command to search.

We've seen the window which the dog had to pass covered in dragon's blood (fingerprint powder) precisely the area as noted by Martin Grime, where his intense interest began.
We have also seen his lengthy inspection of the apartment sniffing everywhere and anywhere before eventually barking.

Thank you for finding that information on Dragons blood Brietta. 

I can understand why the PJ didn't release videos of the dogs in the other apartments as they didn't alert to them so what would be the point from their point of view. However, from our point of view it probably would have been better to see the dogs behaviour and Martin Grime guiding them so that the questions some have asked, regarding his possible directing the dogs would be silenced or held up as correct. I believe that he was professional and did it correctly as he had been doing the job for years.

I also cannot see the use of chemicals affecting the dogs as they would have been used to searching crime scenes with forensic residue.  From what I have seen and read cadaver dogs with their incredible noses do not alert everywhere only in specific places which would indicate that the chemicals are irrelevant. 

All the above post is IMO.

[Robittybob1]

Thank you for finding that information on Dragons blood Brietta. 

I can understand why the PJ didn't release videos of the dogs in the other apartments as they didn't alert to them so what would be the point from their point of view. However, from our point of view it probably would have been better to see the dogs behaviour and Martin Grime guiding them so that the questions some have asked, regarding his possible directing the dogs would be silenced or held up as correct. I believe that he was professional and did it correctly as he had been doing the job for years.

I also cannot see the use of chemicals affecting the dogs as they would have been used to searching crime scenes with forensic residue.  From what I have seen and read cadaver dogs with their incredible noses do not alert everywhere only in specific places which would indicate that the chemicals are irrelevant. 

All the above post is IMO.

There is a full video showing the dogs in the other apartments. (well Eddie at least for I've never watched it all the way through).  I'll get the link for you.
https://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8

[Sunny]

There is a full video showing the dogs in the other apartments. (well Eddie at least for I've never watched it all the way through).  I'll get the link for you.
https://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8

Thank you so much Robittybob1, one for me to watch later as I am off to work in a moment.   There is so much to read and watch in the case.

[Robittybob1]

Thank you so much Robittybob1, one for me to watch later as I am off to work in a moment.   There is so much to read and watch in the case.

And a one and a half hour video of a dog going here there and everywhere is particularly hard to watch.  I have not achieved it yet.

[G-Unit]

I agree with G-Unit that the unnamed chemical used was probably Luminol.

We have only seen video of areas associated with McCann which makes it impossible to assess the dog's reaction on approach to other places ... but Martin Grime makes reference to the dog becoming excitable as he walked along the pathway to the door of 5A.
To the extent that he did not obey the 'sit' command prior to entry.  We saw it demonstrated in the garage sequence that he was trained to sit and then given the command to search.

We've seen the window which the dog had to pass covered in dragon's blood (fingerprint powder) precisely the area as noted by Martin Grime, where his intense interest began.
We have also seen his lengthy inspection of the apartment sniffing everywhere and anywhere before eventually barking.

5A was the first location searched in Portugal. Perhaps that contributed to Eddie's excitement as he began to do his job. We don't know which areas of the apartment were sprayed with chemicals, nor do we know if any of them have been studied for their effects on the work of these dogs. Therefore we're really unable to reach any meaningful conclusions in my opinion.

[Mr Gray]

Thank you for finding that information on Dragons blood Brietta. 

I can understand why the PJ didn't release videos of the dogs in the other apartments as they didn't alert to them so what would be the point from their point of view. However, from our point of view it probably would have been better to see the dogs behaviour and Martin Grime guiding them so that the questions some have asked, regarding his possible directing the dogs would be silenced or held up as correct. I believe that he was professional and did it correctly as he had been doing the job for years.

I also cannot see the use of chemicals affecting the dogs as they would have been used to searching crime scenes with forensic residue.  From what I have seen and read cadaver dogs with their incredible noses do not alert everywhere only in specific places which would indicate that the chemicals are irrelevant. 

All the above post is IMO.

The use of chemicals might not affect the alerts but might explain eddies alleged initial excitement when entering 5a

[Brietta]

Thank you for finding that information on Dragons blood Brietta. 

I can understand why the PJ didn't release videos of the dogs in the other apartments as they didn't alert to them so what would be the point from their point of view. However, from our point of view it probably would have been better to see the dogs behaviour and Martin Grime guiding them so that the questions some have asked, regarding his possible directing the dogs would be silenced or held up as correct. I believe that he was professional and did it correctly as he had been doing the job for years.

I also cannot see the use of chemicals affecting the dogs as they would have been used to searching crime scenes with forensic residue.  From what I have seen and read cadaver dogs with their incredible noses do not alert everywhere only in specific places which would indicate that the chemicals are irrelevant. 

All the above post is IMO.

That is precisely my point. That the dog was "used to searching crime scenes with forensic residue."

Eddie did not alert immediately but he did become exited by 'a scent he recognised' as he approached along the enclosed passageway outside the bedroom window ... we have watched the video and we have witnessed that.

The dog had primed itself for action in that passageway ... we have witnessed him straining at the lead in the video.

[kizzy]

The use of chemicals might not affect the alerts but might explain eddies alleged initial excitement when entering 5a

well you don't know do you so it is all just guess work.

It could go both ways [evidence could be missed] if that's the case imo

[Brietta]

5A was the first location searched in Portugal. Perhaps that contributed to Eddie's excitement as he began to do his job. We don't know which areas of the apartment were sprayed with chemicals, nor do we know if any of them have been studied for their effects on the work of these dogs. Therefore we're really unable to reach any meaningful conclusions in my opinion.

I have found a paper detailing scientific research regarding VRDs and such chemicals.  At he moment I can't make head nor tail of the information which is detailed and quite extensive ... when or if I do I will bring it to the forum.
Googling turns up a few references worth having  look at.

[Erngath]

well you don't know do you so it is all just guess work.

It could go both ways [evidence could be missed] if that's the case imo

I agree.
Evidence of an abductor may have been missed.

[jassi]

No evidence is no evidence. Isn't that the argument used against the dog alerts?

[Brietta]

NB the dog alerts at the hire car proved valid ... and did not substantiate police suspicions ... in fact, proper procedure in evidence gathering and subsequent forensic confirmation exonerated the McCanns.

[Brietta]

No evidence is no evidence. Isn't that the argument used against the dog alerts?

No evidence is no evidence irrespective of what is being argued.  Enough deflection now ... back on topic please.