Is it true the PJ may have "Smithman" on video?

[Holly Goodhead]

Now this is doublely interesting as in the article John posted the word "beach" comes up too!

"COPS PROBE GERMAN KILLER
"He appeared to be trying to close the gate quietly, using both hands, and very slowly and deliberately checking in both directions before walking to the end of the pathway and on to Rua Dr Gentil Martins."

The gate he walked through is understood to be to apartment 5B, next to the McCann’s 5A, where Kate and Gerry's friends Matt and Rachael Oldfield and their young daughter Grace were staying.

The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm.

The news comes after it emerged cops probing Maddie's disappearance are investigating Martin Ney, 48, who is serving life for abducting and murdering three kids in 2012."

"The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm."
AFAIK that sentence is not describing Kate, Gerry and Madeleine.  but is the same couple that was on video I believe.

I've interpreted the highlighted sentence as the Oldfields with daughter Grace.

[Robittybob1]

The footage shows no dancing so it didn't happen between 17:31 and 18L36. Many people reported seeing the McCanns and Madeleine but that doesn't mean that's who they saw.

What is the link to the footage please?

[Holly Goodhead]

Is it true the PJ may have "Smithman" on video?

Here is my logic:
A man was seen carrying a girl who may have looked like Madeleine.
Martin Smith has stated he is somewhat certain this man looked like Gerry McCann.
The e-fits drawn by the Smiths do look a little like Gerry McCann but not a spitting image IMO.

Combine that with the sighting of "Gerry McCann" at the restaurant on the beach caught on CCTV video.

It was later confirmed the man playing with the girl wasn't Gerry and the girl wasn't Madeleine.

Could this man be Smithman?

I'll have to find the references we were discussing yesterday.

Just my two penneth as a newbie but I tend to see these sightings of men carrying small children as red herrings.  Would an abductor or GM really stroll around carrying MM at circa 10pm?  Probably not unless they were mentally ill or suffering some cognitive impairment. 

We know OC operated a nighttime creche whereby children slept until they were picked up by parents.  Isn't a more likely scenario dads collecting their sleeping child?  Or a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?

Tannerman has been ruled out by SY who now consider the sighting to have been Dr T? 

[jassi]

Just my two penneth as a newbie but I tend to see these sightings of men carrying small children as red herrings.  Would an abductor or GM really stroll around carrying MM at circa 10pm?  Probably not unless they were mentally ill or suffering some cognitive impairment. 

We know OC operated a nighttime creche whereby children slept until they were picked up by parents.  Isn't a more likely scenario dads collecting their sleeping child?  Or a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?

Tannerman has been ruled out by SY who now consider the sighting to have been Dr T?

Maybe, but Smithman is still unaccounted for.

I don't think his journey that  night could be described as 'a stroll'

[Robittybob1]

I've interpreted the highlighted sentence as the Oldfields with daughter Grace.

Have you considered who is saying that sentence?  "The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm."  Its clearly not a leak from the PJ or Operation Grange.

Is that just something dreamt up by a journalist?  What validation did the person saying that have?

Just my two penneth as a newbie but I tend to see these sightings of men carrying small children as red herrings.  Would an abductor or GM really stroll around carrying MM at circa 10pm?  Probably not unless they were mentally ill or suffering some cognitive impairment. 

We know OC operated a nighttime creche whereby children slept until they were picked up by parents.  Isn't a more likely scenario dads collecting their sleeping child?  Or a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?

Tannerman has been ruled out by SY who now consider the sighting to have been Dr T? 

If it was just "a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?" has that dad owned up to the PJ, and they just keep that quiet hoping that the pressure on Gerry adds up to a confession at sometime?

That would only work if Gerry did carry Madeleine off along that path.

Had the Totmans not come forward to the media and took the wrap for the Tannerman  sighting we would be none the wiser.   OK I have struggled for years with the direction of walk issues, and now I just think Jane was mistaken about the direction she saw the man walking.  It is easier to blame Jane that to understand it any other way.

[Holly Goodhead]

Maybe, but Smithman is still unaccounted for.

I don't think his journey that  night could be described as 'a stroll'

But you often find in these cases unaccounted witnesses even when the case is high profile.  The reasons can be many ranging from lack of awareness to don't wish to be identified albeit they have nothing to do with the case.  A well known example is the white Fiat Uno/Princess Diana car crash. 

Was Smithman hurrying along then or looking furtive or some other thing that made him stand out?

[jassi]

But you often find in these cases unaccounted witnesses even when the case is high profile.  The reasons can be many ranging from lack of awareness to don't wish to be identified albeit they have nothing to do with the case.  A well known example is the white Fiat Uno/Princess Diana car crash. 

Was Smithman hurrying along then or looking furtive or some other thing that made him stand out?

I'm not aware of him being described as furtive, but didn't seem to want to stop or talk to anyone.
So not a 'stroll', IMO

" The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child. "

 https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

[G-Unit]

What is the link to the footage please?

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

[Holly Goodhead]

Have you considered who is saying that sentence?  "The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm."  Its clearly not a leak from the PJ or Operation Grange.

Is that just something dreamt up by a journalist?  What validation did the person saying that have?

If it was just "a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?" has that dad owned up to the PJ, and they just keep that quiet hoping that the pressure on Gerry adds up to a confession at sometime?

That would only work if Gerry did carry Madeleine off along that path.

Had the Totmans not come forward to the media and took the wrap for the Tannerman  sighting we would be none the wiser.   OK I have struggled for years with the direction of walk issues, and now I just think Jane was mistaken about the direction she saw the man walking.  It is easier to blame Jane that to understand it any other way.

Well if we have access to wit stats then by definition they're in the public domain?  The Oldfields claim to have been at the beach between approx (approx being the operative word) times.  The sighting of the man closing the gate was made by Mrs Fenn's niece, Carole Tranmer, again between approx times.  My guess is the man CT observed was ROB. 

I don't know what you mean by "has that dad owned up to the PJ"?  There might be nothing to 'own up to'.  The man might simply have been going about his lawful business and oblivious to how his coming forward could potentially eliminate him from inquiries.

As I understand it Dr Trotman did not elimate himself he was eliminated by SY who identified him by cross referencing OC records of children collected from the creche.

[Robittybob1]

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

There are some big gaps between the frames.  I don't know if this was the camera or the footage Miguel was talking about.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm not aware of him being described as furtive, but didn't seem to want to stop or talk to anyone.
So not a 'stroll', IMO

" The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child. "

 https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Thanks.  So nothing out the usual then?  Would a man carrying a child in a tourist resort, lets assume sleeping, start a conversation with strangers?  Guess he might have said 'Good evening' but likewise did the Smiths attempt or initiate some friendly greeting? 

You often find in these cases people offer up info with good intent after the event but in reality it amounts to nothing more than red herrings. 

[Robittybob1]

Well if we have access to wit stats then by definition they're in the public domain?  The Oldfields claim to have been at the beach between approx (approx being the operative word) times.  The sighting of the man closing the gate was made by Mrs Fenn's niece, Carole Tranmer, again between approx times.  My guess is the man CT observed was ROB. 

I don't know what you mean by "has that dad owned up to the PJ"?  There might be nothing to 'own up to'.  The man might simply have been going about his lawful business and oblivious to how his coming forward could potentially eliminate him from inquiries.

As I understand it Dr Trotman did not elimate himself he was eliminated by SY who identified him by cross referencing OC records of children collected from the creche.

By owned up I mean if he was innocent just saying to the PJ it was me and I'm innocent. 

Totman was eliminated by SY but he was never named by them.  It was Mrs Totman who gave their name to the media IIRC
"He was interviewed by the Guarda Nacional Republicana soon after Maddie, three, vanished in May 2007, but his wife Rachel said: “My husband had told the local police it could be him but we didn’t hear anything for years." https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6225547/madeleine-mccann-gp-sighting-waste/

[ShiningInLuz]

Have you considered who is saying that sentence?  "The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm."  Its clearly not a leak from the PJ or Operation Grange.

Is that just something dreamt up by a journalist?  What validation did the person saying that have?

If it was just "a dad carrying a sleeping child from some other place?" has that dad owned up to the PJ, and they just keep that quiet hoping that the pressure on Gerry adds up to a confession at sometime?

That would only work if Gerry did carry Madeleine off along that path.

Had the Totmans not come forward to the media and took the wrap for the Tannerman  sighting we would be none the wiser.   OK I have struggled for years with the direction of walk issues, and now I just think Jane was mistaken about the direction she saw the man walking.  It is easier to blame Jane that to understand it any other way.

I can understand why Holly may not be up to speed on this Rob, but you should be by now.

In Oct 2013, on Crimewatch, OG stated that Tannerman was no longer of interest, but Smithman was, and published 2 e-fits of him.

Crimewatch was NOT shown in Portugal, but the e-fits were.  They were described as OG's chief suspect.  The Sun pulled a stunt by putting up posters around Luz showing the e-fits in English and Portuguese, describing this man as a suspect.  That's not quite what DCI Andy Redwood said, but chief suspect makes a better story.

Wind forward to July 2014.  One person gets hoiked in, made an arguido, hauled down to Faro, seemingly because he allegedly looked like one of the e-fits.  Might be more, but I have not yet spoken to him about this.  He is one of the 3 alleged burglars, who lived in Luz and made phone calls to each other.

That's what would happen to InnocentDad or GuiltyMan.  Made an arguido, hoiked off to Faro, exposed by the media.

Yummy.  What an incentive.

I don't see InnocentDad or GuiltyMan stepping into the limelight.  Do you?

[jassi]

Thanks.  So nothing out the usual then?  Would a man carrying a child in a tourist resort, lets assume sleeping, start a conversation with strangers?  Guess he might have said 'Good evening' but likewise did the Smiths attempt or initiate some friendly greeting? 

You often find in these cases people offer up info with good intent after the event but in reality it amounts to nothing more than red herrings.

If you read the Smith statement, you'll find that the Smiths did speak to him but there was no answer

[Robittybob1]

I can understand why Holly may not be up to speed on this Rob, but you should be by now.

In Oct 2013, on Crimewatch, OG stated that Tannerman was no longer of interest, but Smithman was, and published 2 e-fits of him.

Crimewatch was NOT shown in Portugal, but the e-fits were.  They were described as OG's chief suspect.  The Sun pulled a stunt by putting up posters around Luz showing the e-fits in English and Portuguese, describing this man as a suspect.  That's not quite what DCI Andy Redwood said, but chief suspect makes a better story.

Wind forward to July 2014.  One person gets hoiked in, made an arguido, hauled down to Faro, seemingly because he allegedly looked like one of the e-fits.  Might be more, but I have not yet spoken to him about this.  He is one of the 3 alleged burglars, who lived in Luz and made phone calls to each other.

That's what would happen to InnocentDad or GuiltyMan.  Made an arguido, hoiked off to Faro, exposed by the media.

Yummy.  What an incentive.

I don't see InnocentDad or GuiltyMan stepping into the limelight.  Do you?

Well that was rather interesting.  I wasn't aware anyone was made arguido and happened to fit the description of Smithman.  How certain are you of this?
InnocentDad should step up.