Author Topic: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?  (Read 53739 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2019, 01:06:34 AM »

The McCann's said they couldn't run Madeleine's fund as a charity,  it wasn't just the McCann's involved they had lawyers too,  so it doesn't look as though it was possible does it.  If you have a problem with how the money was spent then contact the fund.

So you don't think the McCann's should have had a campaign to find their daughter and keep her in the public eye?   So parents of the missing shouldn't put posters up with the face of their child on them, because the Police are searching for their child.   How can the Police apart from contacting the Police in other countries,  get the child's face known to the public of other countries?


The Portuguese shelved the case anyway so there wasn't a Police force searching for Madeleine they had to employ private detectives.


The twins were being entertained by family members,  remember they went to the creche by themselves,  neither Madeleine or their parents were there then.  Would it have been better for the twins to have stayed around their parents crying hysterically all the time?   The Pope was close to God in the McCann's eyes they wanted him to bless Madeleine.   Also it advertised the fact that Madeleine was missing to those in Rome and anyone else who saw it on the tv.


There you go,  Ben Needham's Mum wanted Bens name out there,  that is what the McCann's wanted too, yet you put Ben's Mum on a pedestal,  that is so cruel.   Ben's mum said in her book [have you read it?]  she would have done EXACTLY the same as the McCann's if she had been in their position.

Now you are asking why they are NOT keeping Madeleine's name out there,  how strange.   I can only presume they have been told to keep quiet at the moment.   Yes it is about them,  something they never wanted.

As I said the Charity Commission was willing to work with the parents to help them achieve charitable status. Unfortunately the parents couldn’t wait that long.

From Enid O’Dowd’s investigation of the fund.

“
A Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Charity Commission revealed several emails, telephone calls and a telephone conference between BWB and the Charity Commission about the possibility of charity status, for the then unincorporated company, between Monday afternoon May 14 and Tuesday May 15.

BWB emailed Alice Holt, Head of Legal Services (Status and Advice) at 9.39 pm on Monday evening with draft documents for the company as a charity. The email stated there was to be a press launch of the Foundation on Wednesday May 16 and that they awaited instructions on how the founders proposed to operate.

The minutes of the telephone conference held between BWB and the Charity Commission on the morning of Tuesday May 15 record that Alice Holt would look at revising the draft document to a form more acceptable to the Commission. The minutes also record that Commission official Kenneth Dibble was concerned that the press conference set for the next day might send out confused messages to the public unless it was settled what the fund could and could not be used for.

At 1.10 pm on May 15 the Charity Commission received an email from BWB saying their clients were likely to go the ordinary company route rather than pursue charity status. When that email was received Ms Holt was just finalising her promised revisions to the documents submitted to her the previous day. She sent her revised document anyway at 1.28 pm. To meet the Fund launch date of May 16, the McCanns had obviously decided to abandon the apparently hopeful charity negotiations in order to meet the deadline for same day company incorporation. Documents must be filed by 3pm for the company to be incorporated on that day.

It is odd that the McCanns committed themselves to a launch date, set it would appear, before BWB were engaged. In an email to the Charity Commission, BWB refer to being instructed 'this afternoon' (i.e. Monday May 14). What difference would a couple of days delay have made? And it is clear from the documentation that the Charity Commission officials were helpful, and that it was likely that charity status could have been obtained with only minor delay with a little compromise by the McCanns.

Charity status is valuable because it gives an organisation credibility with the public, grant making bodies and local government, making it easier to obtain funds. It also gives the organisation tax advantages. Individuals, sole traders and companies can also benefit from giving to registered charities. Higher rate tax payers may be able to claim a tax refund. Under the Gift Aid scheme a donation is treated as if standard rate tax (20%) has been deducted and this is equivalent to an extra 25p in the £ for the charity. For donations between 6.4.2008 and 5.4.2011 the government gave an extra 3p in the £ supplement. Individuals can also have charitable donations deducted from their salaries, and this is tax efficient as their income tax is calculated on their salary after the donation. See www.hmrc.gov.uk/charities-donors/ for more information on the benefits to an organisation of charity status.

Charities must give an annual report and accounts to the Charity Commission and make these documents available to the public on request. There are also rules relating to fundraising. The trustees (directors) cannot normally receive salary, fees or contracts from the charity and nor can their spouses or other close family members. These requirements are not onerous or unreasonable. Having hired charity experts BWB on the advice of the paralegal, it is surprising that Kate did not let them have a day or two more to explore charity status. And it is surprising that the McCanns have not apparently revisited this issue.

In Chapter 9 in which Kate describes her activities of May 14 she does not mention any dealings with BWB who must have worked very hard that day. Nor does she mention dealing with the paralegal or anyone else at IFLG. There must have been urgent emails and phone calls that day from her advisors. She just states that charity status would not be forthcoming as it was deemed that the 'public benefit' test would not be met, and adds that it (the Fund) 'was set up with great care and due diligence by experts in their field.'

It would be more accurate to state it was set up with great haste and with no apparent reason for that haste.”

Of course parents should publicise their child’s disappearance but how much exactly did they spend on ‘the search’ in the first year ?

The parents didn’t know at the time they were squirrelling away all that money that they’d need private detectives and that Madeleine wouldn’t be found sooner rather than later. To help other missing families with that money would have been the ultimate act of kindness....and please don’t try to justify their action with the old chestnut that people wanted the McCanns to use it to find Madeleine...most probably donated because they couldn’t think of any other way to help...however if that’s so why was it acceptable then to spend the money on litigation?

As to Rome, it was normal for the twins to go to the crèche by themselves, what wasn’t normal was for their parents not to be there when they got back and I really don’t care what spiritual support the parents felt they needed, their remaining children should have been their priority. As to the Rome visit producing publicity, the parents were on every television news report so how would it have helped ?

Benn’s mother did want his name out there and used her own money and money raised by jumble sales etc to achieve that and used not one penny of the money raised on litigation.

It would appear raising awareness of Madeleine’s plight is the only thing the parents aren’t willing to talk about. Walk and wandered is reported to be a theory, the parents talk through their mouthpiece, Netflix is releasing a documentary, the parents speak through their mouthpiece, German paedophile is a suspect, the parents speak through their mouthpiece. Risible.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2019, 03:45:03 AM »
Thank you for fixing my post.
The children turned up five minutes later very close to our back garden from which they had escaped despite a locked gate.
I phoned the police to tell them and thank them.
Did you find if they went through or over the  fence?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Lace

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2019, 10:02:17 AM »
As I said the Charity Commission was willing to work with the parents to help them achieve charitable status. Unfortunately the parents couldn’t wait that long.

From Enid O’Dowd’s investigation of the fund.

“
A Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Charity Commission revealed several emails, telephone calls and a telephone conference between BWB and the Charity Commission about the possibility of charity status, for the then unincorporated company, between Monday afternoon May 14 and Tuesday May 15.

BWB emailed Alice Holt, Head of Legal Services (Status and Advice) at 9.39 pm on Monday evening with draft documents for the company as a charity. The email stated there was to be a press launch of the Foundation on Wednesday May 16 and that they awaited instructions on how the founders proposed to operate.

The minutes of the telephone conference held between BWB and the Charity Commission on the morning of Tuesday May 15 record that Alice Holt would look at revising the draft document to a form more acceptable to the Commission. The minutes also record that Commission official Kenneth Dibble was concerned that the press conference set for the next day might send out confused messages to the public unless it was settled what the fund could and could not be used for.

At 1.10 pm on May 15 the Charity Commission received an email from BWB saying their clients were likely to go the ordinary company route rather than pursue charity status. When that email was received Ms Holt was just finalising her promised revisions to the documents submitted to her the previous day. She sent her revised document anyway at 1.28 pm. To meet the Fund launch date of May 16, the McCanns had obviously decided to abandon the apparently hopeful charity negotiations in order to meet the deadline for same day company incorporation. Documents must be filed by 3pm for the company to be incorporated on that day.

It is odd that the McCanns committed themselves to a launch date, set it would appear, before BWB were engaged. In an email to the Charity Commission, BWB refer to being instructed 'this afternoon' (i.e. Monday May 14). What difference would a couple of days delay have made? And it is clear from the documentation that the Charity Commission officials were helpful, and that it was likely that charity status could have been obtained with only minor delay with a little compromise by the McCanns.

Charity status is valuable because it gives an organisation credibility with the public, grant making bodies and local government, making it easier to obtain funds. It also gives the organisation tax advantages. Individuals, sole traders and companies can also benefit from giving to registered charities. Higher rate tax payers may be able to claim a tax refund. Under the Gift Aid scheme a donation is treated as if standard rate tax (20%) has been deducted and this is equivalent to an extra 25p in the £ for the charity. For donations between 6.4.2008 and 5.4.2011 the government gave an extra 3p in the £ supplement. Individuals can also have charitable donations deducted from their salaries, and this is tax efficient as their income tax is calculated on their salary after the donation. See www.hmrc.gov.uk/charities-donors/ for more information on the benefits to an organisation of charity status.

Charities must give an annual report and accounts to the Charity Commission and make these documents available to the public on request. There are also rules relating to fundraising. The trustees (directors) cannot normally receive salary, fees or contracts from the charity and nor can their spouses or other close family members. These requirements are not onerous or unreasonable. Having hired charity experts BWB on the advice of the paralegal, it is surprising that Kate did not let them have a day or two more to explore charity status. And it is surprising that the McCanns have not apparently revisited this issue.

In Chapter 9 in which Kate describes her activities of May 14 she does not mention any dealings with BWB who must have worked very hard that day. Nor does she mention dealing with the paralegal or anyone else at IFLG. There must have been urgent emails and phone calls that day from her advisors. She just states that charity status would not be forthcoming as it was deemed that the 'public benefit' test would not be met, and adds that it (the Fund) 'was set up with great care and due diligence by experts in their field.'

It would be more accurate to state it was set up with great haste and with no apparent reason for that haste.”

Of course parents should publicise their child’s disappearance but how much exactly did they spend on ‘the search’ in the first year ?

The parents didn’t know at the time they were squirrelling away all that money that they’d need private detectives and that Madeleine wouldn’t be found sooner rather than later. To help other missing families with that money would have been the ultimate act of kindness....and please don’t try to justify their action with the old chestnut that people wanted the McCanns to use it to find Madeleine...most probably donated because they couldn’t think of any other way to help...however if that’s so why was it acceptable then to spend the money on litigation?

As to Rome, it was normal for the twins to go to the crèche by themselves, what wasn’t normal was for their parents not to be there when they got back and I really don’t care what spiritual support the parents felt they needed, their remaining children should have been their priority. As to the Rome visit producing publicity, the parents were on every television news report so how would it have helped ?

Benn’s mother did want his name out there and used her own money and money raised by jumble sales etc to achieve that and used not one penny of the money raised on litigation.

It would appear raising awareness of Madeleine’s plight is the only thing the parents aren’t willing to talk about. Walk and wandered is reported to be a theory, the parents talk through their mouthpiece, Netflix is releasing a documentary, the parents speak through their mouthpiece, German paedophile is a suspect, the parents speak through their mouthpiece. Risible.


Enid O'Dowd  say no more.   This person is all out to get herself noticed,  has she given up on the little girl who went missing in Ireland yet?   The family of that little child don't want her to say anything she is a mischief maker.


The McCann's lawyers set up the fund,   are you trying to say that Enid O'Dowd knows better that qualified lawyers?

The McCann's had a separate fund for litigation.   Maybe the fee for lawyers setting up the fund was taken out of the fund but I believe the money to sue Amaral was in a separate fund.


The trip to Rome was to have the Pope bless Madeleine's photo,  they believed that somehow his blessing would help or protect Madeleine,  when you have desperate helpless parents,  they will do what ever it takes to find their child.   They wanted the people of Rome to know about Madeleine and that she was missing.  They were putting the twins first,  they were being well looked after with their Grandparents.   They wanted things to stay as normal as possible for the twins.  Witnessing the McCann's in a distressed state wouldn't have been good for them.


It wasn't the McCann's fault that people all over the world wanted to help in the search for Madeleine,  maybe if Ben had disappeared when the internet was about he would have had the same support.   You can't blame the parents for having a larger fund that the parents of another missing child.   What were they supposed to do?  send the money back?   Kerry has said in her book that she would have done the same as the McCann's.


The McCann's didn't want anything to do with Netflix as there is an investigation going on,  the Police have asked for silence.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2019, 11:18:24 AM »
Their website is unhelpful. SY have investigated and eliminated Tannerman but the McCann's don't agree with Totman's statement claiming it was him and being pictured wearing the same clothes as JT's description by SY in 2013 is Tannerman.

The McCanns have always tried to claim that Tannerman and Smithman were the same person (look at the reconstruction documentary - Smithman carrying Tannerman style - that is false misleading information and disgusting underhand tactics!) No wonder many get confused and don't know what's going on because of false misleading information such as this!

Your opinions on the following:

1. They claim Tannerman and Smithman are the same person to rule Gerry out?

2. Tannerman has come forward, Smithman has not because they are different people?

3. The 2008 Smithman efits were missing for Kate's 2011 Madeleine book. If they were featured then no reader would believe that Tannerman and Smithman were the same person as the McCanns claim in that book?

4. What do you think of reconstruction untruthful changes such as Smithman's carrying style to become Tannerman?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 11:23:12 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2019, 11:27:09 AM »

Enid O'Dowd  say no more.   This person is all out to get herself noticed,  has she given up on the little girl who went missing in Ireland yet?   The family of that little child don't want her to say anything she is a mischief maker.


The McCann's lawyers set up the fund,   are you trying to say that Enid O'Dowd knows better that qualified lawyers?

The McCann's had a separate fund for litigation.   Maybe the fee for lawyers setting up the fund was taken out of the fund but I believe the money to sue Amaral was in a separate fund.


The trip to Rome was to have the Pope bless Madeleine's photo,  they believed that somehow his blessing would help or protect Madeleine,  when you have desperate helpless parents,  they will do what ever it takes to find their child.   They wanted the people of Rome to know about Madeleine and that she was missing.  They were putting the twins first,  they were being well looked after with their Grandparents.   They wanted things to stay as normal as possible for the twins.  Witnessing the McCann's in a distressed state wouldn't have been good for them.


It wasn't the McCann's fault that people all over the world wanted to help in the search for Madeleine,  maybe if Ben had disappeared when the internet was about he would have had the same support.   You can't blame the parents for having a larger fund that the parents of another missing child.   What were they supposed to do?  send the money back?   Kerry has said in her book that she would have done the same as the McCann's.


The McCann's didn't want anything to do with Netflix as there is an investigation going on,  the Police have asked for silence.

Enid O'Dowd has been criticised before on the Forum, but I've never seen anyone post anthing to support the criticisms.

The costs associated with suing Amaral are documented in the Madeleine Fund accounts. Payments for witness travel and accmodation and for Isabel Duarte's fees. So the statement that these costs were met from a different Fund is nonsense imo.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 11:58:38 AM by G-Unit »
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2019, 11:49:06 AM »
Their website is unhelpful. SY have investigated and eliminated Tannerman but the McCann's don't agree with Totman's statement claiming it was him and being pictured wearing the same clothes as JT's description by SY in 2013 is Tannerman.

The McCanns have always tried to claim that Tannerman and Smithman were the same person (look at the reconstruction documentary - Smithman carrying Tannerman style - that is false misleading information and disgusting underhand tactics!) No wonder many get confused and don't know what's going on because of false misleading information such as this!

Your opinions on the following:

1. They claim Tannerman and Smithman are the same person to rule Gerry out?

2. Tannerman has come forward, Smithman has not because they are different people?

3. The 2008 Smithman efits were missing for Kate's 2011 Madeleine book. If they were featured then no reader would believe that Tannerman and Smithman were the same person as the McCanns claim in that book?

4. What do you think of reconstruction untruthful changes such as Smithman's carrying style to become Tannerman?

1.  I think it's a sort of emotional/psychological thing in that the McCanns learned of JT's sighting from the off and came to believe this was an abductor.  For those looking at the case objectively we can now pretty much say for certain it wasn't an abductor but Dr Totman.  The McCanns are not capable of looking at it objectively and refuse to give it up.

2.  Agreed.

3.  Agreed.  Also the locations and times don't stack up and the GNR tracker dogs did not pick up any scent in these locations.

4.  Please explain.

The McCanns are unreliable witnesses as they are at the very least emotionally involved. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 11:57:55 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline faithlilly

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2019, 12:31:17 PM »

Enid O'Dowd  say no more.   This person is all out to get herself noticed,  has she given up on the little girl who went missing in Ireland yet?   The family of that little child don't want her to say anything she is a mischief maker.


The McCann's lawyers set up the fund,   are you trying to say that Enid O'Dowd knows better that qualified lawyers?

The McCann's had a separate fund for litigation.   Maybe the fee for lawyers setting up the fund was taken out of the fund but I believe the money to sue Amaral was in a separate fund.


The trip to Rome was to have the Pope bless Madeleine's photo,  they believed that somehow his blessing would help or protect Madeleine,  when you have desperate helpless parents,  they will do what ever it takes to find their child.   They wanted the people of Rome to know about Madeleine and that she was missing.  They were putting the twins first,  they were being well looked after with their Grandparents.   They wanted things to stay as normal as possible for the twins.  Witnessing the McCann's in a distressed state wouldn't have been good for them.


It wasn't the McCann's fault that people all over the world wanted to help in the search for Madeleine,  maybe if Ben had disappeared when the internet was about he would have had the same support.   You can't blame the parents for having a larger fund that the parents of another missing child.   What were they supposed to do?  send the money back?   Kerry has said in her book that she would have done the same as the McCann's.


The McCann's didn't want anything to do with Netflix as there is an investigation going on,  the Police have asked for silence.

Enid O’Dowd is a qualified accountant and is well placed to critique the setting up of the fund. Apart from bias have you any other reason to query the work of Miss O’Dowd ? Has her professionalism ever been criticised by anyone else but supporters of the McCanns ? Further lawyers only do what their clients instruct them to do....within the limits of the law. While morally questionable, the setting up of the fund was legally sound so a lawyer would see no problem with it.

The parents have no separate fund for litigation as their own accounts show. The litigation was paid for from the same fund as the ‘search’.

Firstly the twins would have, I assume, seen their parents in a distressed state since May 3rd so that excuse rings rather hollow. A photograph of Madeleine could have been sent to the pope and he could have blessed it without them going to Rome...further I’d also assume the people of Rome have televisions and as Madeleine’s disappearance was making news all over the world I’m sure they knew about her. Lastly keeping things normal for the twins would be having their parents there, especially as their sister had disappeared from their life.

What were the parents supposed to do with the money ? As they had more support from police officials than possibly any family of a missing child in history possibly set up a fund to help the families of other missing children ? Something like the foundation set up by Daniel Morcombe’s parents when he was still missing.

https://danielmorcombefoundation.com.au/keeping-kids-safe-resources/
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 03:34:15 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2019, 05:37:22 PM »
Why did Enid O’Doed take it upon herself to conduct an investigation into the Fund?  Was she a wholly impartial bystander before she undertook it?  Of was she a busy body sceptic with too much free time on her hands?  I think I know the answer to that one already...
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2019, 05:42:32 PM »
Enid O’Dowd is a qualified accountant and is well placed to critique the setting up of the fund. Apart from bias have you any other reason to query the work of Miss O’Dowd ? Has her professionalism ever been criticised by anyone else but supporters of the McCanns ? Further lawyers only do what their clients instruct them to do....within the limits of the law. While morally questionable, the setting up of the fund was legally sound so a lawyer would see no problem with it.

The parents have no separate fund for litigation as their own accounts show. The litigation was paid for from the same fund as the ‘search’.

Firstly the twins would have, I assume, seen their parents in a distressed state since May 3rd so that excuse rings rather hollow. A photograph of Madeleine could have been sent to the pope and he could have blessed it without them going to Rome...further I’d also assume the people of Rome have televisions and as Madeleine’s disappearance was making news all over the world I’m sure they knew about her. Lastly keeping things normal for the twins would be having their parents there, especially as their sister had disappeared from their life.

What were the parents supposed to do with the money ? As they had more support from police officials than possibly any family of a missing child in history possibly set up a fund to help the families of other missing children ? Something like the foundation set up by Daniel Morcombe’s parents when he was still missing.

https://danielmorcombefoundation.com.au/keeping-kids-safe-resources/
Ah yes, the Morcombes, now close friends of the McCanns and wholly supportive of them, fancy that.  https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/families-united-in-grief-morcombe-mccann/1070571/
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline faithlilly

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #159 on: July 13, 2019, 06:27:20 PM »
Why did Enid O’Doed take it upon herself to conduct an investigation into the Fund?  Was she a wholly impartial bystander before she undertook it?  Of was she a busy body sceptic with too much free time on her hands?  I think I know the answer to that one already...

You can’t discover facts that aren’t there, no matter what your view.

You seem to enjoy shooting the messenger.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #160 on: July 13, 2019, 06:34:09 PM »
Ah yes, the Morcombes, now close friends of the McCanns and wholly supportive of them, fancy that.  https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/families-united-in-grief-morcombe-mccann/1070571/

Fancy that, the Morecombe’s are humane human beings. Doesn’t change the points I made about the money donated to the fund.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #161 on: July 13, 2019, 06:36:32 PM »
1.  I think it's a sort of emotional/psychological thing in that the McCanns learned of JT's sighting from the off and came to believe this was an abductor.  For those looking at the case objectively we can now pretty much say for certain it wasn't an abductor but Dr Totman.  The McCanns are not capable of looking at it objectively and refuse to give it up.

2.  Agreed.

3.  Agreed.  Also the locations and times don't stack up and the GNR tracker dogs did not pick up any scent in these locations.

4.  Please explain.

The McCanns are unreliable witnesses as they are at the very least emotionally involved.

Thanks for your responses. 4 - Smithman carrying the child Tannerman style is a lie!

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #162 on: July 13, 2019, 06:39:01 PM »
You can’t discover facts that aren’t there, no matter what your view.

You seem to enjoy shooting the messenger.
Yep, love it.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful
« Reply #163 on: July 13, 2019, 06:40:25 PM »
Fancy that, the Morecombe’s are humane human beings. Doesn’t change the points I made about the money donated to the fund.
If only everyone was a humane human being, the world would be a much nicer place, don’t you think?  As for the money, who cares?  Not me.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #164 on: July 13, 2019, 06:48:23 PM »
You can’t discover facts that aren’t there, no matter what your view.

You seem to enjoy shooting the messenger.

you can be selective in the facts you present and intepretation you promote...based on fact...flat earthers can prove the earth is flat...they just ignore the facts that contradict them...as odowd did