KM's Paperback (PB)

[Vertigo Swirl]

Nothing to do with the length of time he spent in the apt but we know from various individuals he checked at circa 9 pm.  At 10 pm KM found MM missing.  At 9.30 pm MO checked but had no idea if MM was present or not.  If GM was unable to say whether or not MM was present at circa 9 pm he might feel somewhat ashamed that not only did he leave his 3 small children in an unlocked apt whilst he was wining and dining but upon 'checking' he had no idea whether or not she was present.

And so you think Gerry is sufficiently sociopathic to put his own self preservation first, and the search for his daughter and his daughter’s abductor second do you?  You think he is so callous and cynical that he would invent a heart rending account of his last sighting of his daughter to fool not only the police but slso his wife, his other children and the rest of his family?  Yet you also credit him with the capacity to feel shame?  IMO these are not compatible traits.   I think your narrative is coloured by your personal dislike of the man.

[G-Unit]

That's good parenting, isn't it.
Letting her feel that wee bit special as the bigger sister.

It was taken away on holiday.

[G-Unit]

I agree Anthro,   dumping the kids is ridiculous,  they wouldn't have gone unless they wanted to go.  Children love the company of other children,   I have lost count how many times other children have come up to mine on the beach for instance to play.   Madeleine was looking forward to showing Kate and Gerry her dance on the Friday,  something she didn't get to do 

Sean wasn't that keen;

The nanny who was to take care of them there seemed very pleasant and capable. Amelie, true to  form, was
completely unfazed; sensitive Sean, when it came to it, was initially a bit upset, all of which was situation normal with the twins [madeleine]

The Paynes avoided their kids when they were with the nannies, because they would want to be with them if they saw them and Russell avoided taking his youngest to creche because it upset her.

[G-Unit]

And so you think Gerry is sufficiently sociopathic to put his own self preservation first, and the search for his daughter and his daughter’s abductor second do you?  You think he is so callous and cynical that he would invent a heart rending account of his last sighting of his daughter to fool not only the police but slso his wife, his other children and the rest of his family?  Yet you also credit him with the capacity to feel shame?  IMO these are not compatible traits.   I think your narrative is coloured by your personal dislike of the man.

It made Gerry seem more caring than if he hadn't looked, especially with the 'moving door'.

[Brietta]

I find Kate's personal account of the criticism she and Gerry were subject to harrowing.  She describes it as being kicked when they were down; it then turned what Kate describes as nasty ...  I think it was nothing short of sick.

Kate describes disciplining herself to ignore these vile communications which had almost pushed them over the edge at the lowest ebb of their lives and began instead to develop pity for the perpetrators.

I doubt I could have been as charitable as she when it came to these poor lost souls ... particularly as a dedicated rump have been at it for twelve years without a break.  I think that type of malevolent obsession must say far more about them than those with whom they are sadly obsessed.

[sadie]

I would say in order of reliability those tasked with looking on a professional basis eg GNR officers and then the OC employees who had some sort of 'missing child' procedure to draw upon and then volunteer searchers including members of T9. 

Afaik KM did not search at night as GM asked her to stay at 5A in case MM was found.

I think that I read somewhere that she asked her friend, (was it Fiona?) to stay in 5A, whist she ran down the road before quickly returning, to be there if Madeleine returned.  Gerry specifically asked her to stay there in case Madeleine found her way back, if you remember.

Have you forgotten that Kate and Gerry went out searching as dawn was breaking ...?   Most people would considr that in the night, especially when on holiday.

[sadie]

Its all hypothetical Davel.  If a case went to court it would fall and rise on its individual merits. 

Parents A dine out in hotel restaurant where children B are tucked up in locked room and parents can observe using a video monitor like those offered at New Park Manor:

https://www.newparkmanorhotel.co.uk/family-friendly-hotel

Parent B dine out at a restaurant a 2 - 3 minute walk away from unlocked holiday apartment where children C are tucked up but the parents have no idea what's going on and as it so happens a 3 yoa child disappears.

Soz Holly but you have the walk time wrong.  Much faster than you say and fit people like kate and Gerry could do it in well under a minute in emergency (probably in less than half a minute including steps and two gates.)



Refering to official walking and running speeds as detailed on the internet, the timings have all been worked out before on this forum.  Two to three minutes is way off the actual time.  BTW it is about 80 metres walking as opposed to a little over 50 metres as the crow flies.

Oh, and the Tapas restaurant was in the Aparthotel grounds/ gardens, not somewhere outside as you seem to imply

[Vertigo Swirl]

It was taken away on holiday.

Because they were sharing a bedroom, not because the parents were deliberately punishing Madeleine.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It made Gerry seem more caring than if he hadn't looked, especially with the 'moving door'.

Obviously you think the man cared more about his image than about the search for his daughter because you obviously believe he hid her body but I wasn’t asking you, I was asking Holly, who believes Madeleine was abducted.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I find Kate's personal account of the criticism she and Gerry were subject to harrowing.  She describes it as being kicked when they were down; it then turned what Kate describes as nasty ...  I think it was nothing short of sick.

Kate describes disciplining herself to ignore these vile communications which had almost pushed them over the edge at the lowest ebb of their lives and began instead to develop pity for the perpetrators.

I doubt I could have been as charitable as she when it came to these poor lost souls ... particularly as a dedicated rump have been at it for twelve years without a break.  I think that type of malevolent obsession must say far more about them than those with whom they are sadly obsessed.

Yep, and there’s a tiny handful of them on this forum still honing their McCann bashing skills.  The Die Hards!

[ShiningInLuz]

Yep, and there’s a tiny handful of them on this forum still honing their McCann bashing skills.  The Die Hards!

Really?  And who are they then?

I take it from this that you have been on the case for 12 years, identifying such miscreants?

Otherwise it is simply another case of negative sceptic-bashing.

[G-Unit]

I find Kate's personal account of the criticism she and Gerry were subject to harrowing.  She describes it as being kicked when they were down; it then turned what Kate describes as nasty ...  I think it was nothing short of sick.

Kate describes disciplining herself to ignore these vile communications which had almost pushed them over the edge at the lowest ebb of their lives and began instead to develop pity for the perpetrators.

I doubt I could have been as charitable as she when it came to these poor lost souls ... particularly as a dedicated rump have been at it for twelve years without a break.  I think that type of malevolent obsession must say far more about them than those with whom they are sadly obsessed.

Of course they were criticised, as Kate accepted; they were at fault.

"We came in for some criticism, of course, for leaving the children in the apartment while we had dinner" [madeleine]

In my opinion some genuine contrition might have helped, rather than the excuses they made for their behaviour. Excuses which are still repeated to this day by some.

It was obvious to others that Kate McCann never really accepted that she did wrong;

"That night runs over and over in my mind and I'm sure people will learn from our mistake, if you want to call it that."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1559517/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-recalls-last-chat.html

[Erngath]

It made Gerry seem more caring than if he hadn't looked, especially with the 'moving door'.

Is there any redeeming feature of Madeleine's father's personality and behaviour or do you really believe he is as uncaring and unpleasant as your posts seem to suggest?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Really?  And who are they then?

I take it from this that you have been on the case for 12 years, identifying such miscreants?

Otherwise it is simply another case of negative supporter-bashing.

You want me to name the McCann Bashers?  I don’t think that’s allowed.  And yes, I have been following this case online for 12 years.  I am certainly not supporter-bashing, that’s your job.   

[Vertigo Swirl]

Is there any redeeming feature of Madeleine's father's personality and behaviour or do you really believe he is as uncaring and unpleasant as your posts seem to suggest?

The McCanns can have no redeeming features in the eyes of the avowed sceptic, it would never do to admit that there was anything remotely half decent about either of them, because then their theories and beliefs would be weakened.