T9 And Security Of Holiday Apartments

[G-Unit]

And here's what RO said about car park side:

'Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn't really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy'.

So FP and RO found the car park side a bit scary at night in which case there's no reason to suggest anyone wasn't using the back passage because it was dark/scary.

It seems like some of the group didn't think Luz felt completely safe after dark.

[jassi]

It seems like some of the group didn't think Luz felt completely safe after dark.

Well, with all these suspicious people supposedly  hanging about, are you surprised ?

[sadie]

She talks a load of nonsense about Maddie's blood line & Joana's ankles. I think you'll find that's why she is mocked & ridiculed.

Haha !

He who laughs last, laughs longest

[Holly Goodhead]

Any further off-topic posts and/or those that amount to spats will be removed on sight.

[Brietta]

Wrong about what?

Just about everything. Please read Jeremy Wilkins rogatory statement for confirmation that you are in error.

You said ... "Prior to chatting with GM he went to the loo at tapas, why would he then cross the road with a buggy/pram ..."

Jeremy Wilkins said ...

"I left the apartment and turned right.

I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated ...

I turned right and continued on down the hill.

At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception.

When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area.

He also was in the WC ...

I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left.

After leaving the WC, I continued to walk around the back of the tennis court, and returned via the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex.

... I walked practically in circles.

Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar.

When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same.

I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.

As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.

From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/jeremy-wilkins-statement-7-5-07-8-4-08-and-5-11-0-t36.html

[Miss Taken Identity]

Just about everything. Please read Jeremy Wilkins rogatory statement for confirmation that you are in error.

You said ... "Prior to chatting with GM he went to the loo at tapas, why would he then cross the road with a buggy/pram ..."

Jeremy Wilkins said ...

"I left the apartment and turned right.

I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated ...

I turned right and continued on down the hill.

At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception.

When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area.

He also was in the WC ...

I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left.

After leaving the WC, I continued to walk around the back of the tennis court, and returned via the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex.

... I walked practically in circles.

Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar.

When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same.

I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.

As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.

From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/jeremy-wilkins-statement-7-5-07-8-4-08-and-5-11-0-t36.html

He also can't give an exact time- all if's but's and 'can't remembers' it is such a pity he didn't see JT and the 'abductor'

[Holly Goodhead]

Just about everything. Please read Jeremy Wilkins rogatory statement for confirmation that you are in error.

You said ... "Prior to chatting with GM he went to the loo at tapas, why would he then cross the road with a buggy/pram ..."

Jeremy Wilkins said ...

"I left the apartment and turned right.

I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated ...

I turned right and continued on down the hill.

At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception.

When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area.

He also was in the WC ...

I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left.

After leaving the WC, I continued to walk around the back of the tennis court, and returned via the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex.

... I walked practically in circles.

Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar.

When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same.

I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.

As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.

From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/jeremy-wilkins-statement-7-5-07-8-4-08-and-5-11-0-t36.html

Are you suggesting JW was on FGM and crossed to speak with GM from block 6 side to 5A side?

In JW's police rog he refers to

..street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.

I believe the above was ADS not FGM?

[Eleanor]

Are you suggesting JW was on FGM and crossed to speak with GM from block 6 side to 5A side?

In JW's police rog he refers to

..street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.

I believe the above was ADS not FGM?

Goodness me.  This comment makes no sense to me at all.

[Brietta]

Are you suggesting JW was on FGM and crossed to speak with GM from block 6 side to 5A side?

In JW's police rog he refers to

..street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.

I believe the above was ADS not FGM?

I'm suggesting nothing ... I was not there.

I am relying totally on what Jes Wilkins said in a sworn statement ... he was there.

[sadie]

JT saying this, that or the other does not make it factually correct.  There's no way JT could have passed GM/JW chatting on FGM 5A side without them noticing her which they didn't.  JT/JW version of events in this regard contradict GM's about which side of the road they were on.  If JT slipped up the back passage this would account for how she was able to observe GM/JW chatting but went unnoticed herself.

Pavement of Rua FGM is at least 2 metres wide at that point where the alley way (aka back passage  ) led off.  Gerry was astride the kerb, I believe, so little of him was on the pavement.  Jez was standing in the road.  For him to be standing, with baby in pram, in the road, he had to be protected by parked cars on either side, so a very limited view south or north in which to see Jane.  Gerry had his back to Jane; he wouldn't see her.  He is a big man and was patly on the kerb so blocking much of Jezes view.

Some minor happening, such as :
 -  Concentrating on admiring the baby in the pram, or,
 -  A vehicle from the little car park (opposite the Tapas Reception) suddenly stopping and rapidly turning round to drive off in a rush in the opposite direction

Either happening could have caused them both to lose their normal atention, to waiver.  In circumstances like these Jane could have walked past really easily without being noticed.

To be quite frank, if at that stage Jez didn't even know Jane (which I think is so, but please correct me, with cites, if wrong) why would he notice a woman passing by who was shapeless as she was drowned in her partners huge jacket ? 
Not noticing is especially viable if the conversation was interesting  and they were deeply involved in it imo

And the street lights were rather poor.


And of course the possibility of being distracted by a car suddenly turning round fits rather neatly into my mini theory  .  Also the headlights could have caused the mono chromatic street lighting to be added to, enabling Jane to see colour.

It would also align with JW's version of events about which side of the road he was on.  JW was staying in block 4 and pushing his young son around in an attempt to get him off to sleep.  Prior to chatting with GM he went to the loo at tapas, why would he then cross the road with a buggy/pram when he was simply walking round the perimeter of OC?

It is my understanding that Jez went to the loo at the Tapas are and then carried on in the Tapas area in a westerly direction along the little pathway that runs immediately to the south of the tennis courts (zoom in on Google Earth to see this, (but it is now covered by the heads of trees so you may have to do Google street view up Rua Maio to see the pathway entrance.).   He came out onto Rua P. de Maio, before circling around OC. 

OC is extensive and we dont know how wide a circle he took but he found himself on the eastern side of Rua Dr, FGM and crossed over to, afaik, chat with Gerry.  This happened immediately across the entrance Hollys back passage to the rear alleyway, but mainly in the road.

 

No one mentions anything about the back passage being dimly lit or a scary place.  Conversely RO said she did not like the car park side at night as it was dark and FP said similar including a whistling sound from winds.

No one used it, that is why it wasn't mentioned.  That is with the exception of Matt when he left Rob and Janes place, but he would have been walking towards the light rather than walking into blackness.   Both SIL and I have seen it and told you how dark this alleyway was.  I wonder why you persist in pushing it ?
 

And we can be 99.9% certain the man seen leaving the vicinity carrying a child was Dr T carrying his own daughter not MM's abductor.

 
- snip-

Very unlikely cos he would have been going the wrong way, whether from The Millenium Restaurant or from the creche.  From neither place would Dr Totman have needed to cross the road Rua FGM either.  His flat was immediately before that road, so it seems that Jane did not see Dr Totman (Crechman), but another man who we call Tannerman


May I politely suggest that if possible you go and visit the area, and see for yourself.  Rather than spreading misinformation and causing confusion

[sadie]

Are you suggesting JW was on FGM and crossed to speak with GM from block 6 side to 5A side?

In JW's police rog he refers to

..street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.

I believe the above was ADS not FGM?

With the aid of Google earth, I have interpreted Jezes statement as meaning exactly that.

JW was on FGM opposite the Tapas reception.  According to the size of the loop he made, he might have been coming out of the little car park on FGM, or he might have been coming north up FGM on its eastern pavement.  We dont know the answer to that do we?

But what is certain imo, is that he crossed from the eastern pavement of FGM, by the little car park to the western pavement and chatted with Gerry over the kerb there, at a point that is across the entrance to the alleyway.   This is clear from various statements, from Jane in the Cutting Edge videeo, from Amaral in his video and various images.


At times when there was no police activity, I think that a lot of journalists cars parked in the little car park opposite the tapas reception /5A and also along FGM where possible, but I wasn't there.  Were you?

[G-Unit]

Pavement of Rua FGM is at least 2 metres wide at that point where the alley way (aka back passage  ) led off.  Gerry was astride the kerb, I believe, so little of him was on the pavement.  Jez was standing in the road.  For him to be standing, with baby in pram, in the road, he had to be protected by parked cars on either side, so a very limited view south or north in which to see Jane.  Gerry had his back to Jane; he wouldn't see her.  He is a big man and was patly on the kerb so blocking much of Jezes view.

Are you suggesting that someone 6 feet away can't be seen? The rest of this paragraph isn't factual, it's your opinion.

Some minor happening, such as :
 -  Concentrating on admiring the baby in the pram, or,
 -  A vehicle from the little car park (opposite the Tapas Reception) suddenly stopping and rapidly turning round to drive off in a rush in the opposite direction

Either happening could have caused them both to lose their normal atention, to waiver.  In circumstances like these Jane could have walked past really easily without being noticed.

To be quite frank, if at that stage Jez didn't even know Jane (which I think is so, but please correct me, with cites, if wrong) why would he notice a woman passing by who was shapeless as she was drowned in her partners huge jacket ? 
Not noticing is especially viable if the conversation was interesting  and they were deeply involved in it imo

And the street lights were rather poor.

Jes did know Jane, he saw her on his way out earlier. Are those poor street lights the ones which bathed the McCanns balcony in light?


And of course the possibility of being distracted by a car suddenly turning round fits rather neatly into my mini theory  .  Also the headlights could have caused the mono chromatic street lighting to be added to, enabling Jane to see colour.

There is no evidence of a car, that's speculation on your part.

It is my understanding that Jez went to the loo at the Tapas are and then carried on in the Tapas area in a westerly direction along the little pathway that runs immediately to the south of the tennis courts (zoom in on Google Earth to see this, (but it is now covered by the heads of trees so you may have to do Google street view up Rua Maio to see the pathway entrance.).   He came out onto Rua P. de Maio, before circling around OC. 

I can see no exit from the Tapas complex onto R. 1º de Maio.

OC is extensive and we dont know how wide a circle he took but he found himself on the eastern side of Rua Dr, FGM and crossed over to, afaik, chat with Gerry.  This happened immediately across the entrance Hollys back passage to the rear alleyway, but mainly in the road.

 

No one used it, that is why it wasn't mentioned.  That is with the exception of Matt when he left Rob and Janes place, but he would have been walking towards the light rather than walking into blackness.   Both SIL and I have seen it and told you how dark this alleyway was.  I wonder why you persist in pushing it ?
 
There is no evidence that Matt used the passageway.

- snip-

Very unlikely cos he would have been going the wrong way, whether from The Millenium Restaurant or from the creche.  From neither place would Dr Totman have needed to cross the road Rua FGM either.  His flat was immediately before that road, so it seems that Jane did not see Dr Totman (Crechman), but another man who we call Tannerman


May I politely suggest that if possible you go and visit the area, and see for yourself.  Rather than spreading misinformation and causing confusion

I think a lot of the above comes under the heading of spreading misinformation.

[Holly Goodhead]

Pavement of Rua FGM is at least 2 metres wide at that point where the alley way (aka back passage  ) led off.  Gerry was astride the kerb, I believe, so little of him was on the pavement.  Jez was standing in the road.  For him to be standing, with baby in pram, in the road, he had to be protected by parked cars on either side, so a very limited view south or north in which to see Jane.  Gerry had his back to Jane; he wouldn't see her.  He is a big man and was patly on the kerb so blocking much of Jezes view.

Some minor happening, such as :
 -  Concentrating on admiring the baby in the pram, or,
 -  A vehicle from the little car park (opposite the Tapas Reception) suddenly stopping and rapidly turning round to drive off in a rush in the opposite direction

Either happening could have caused them both to lose their normal atention, to waiver.  In circumstances like these Jane could have walked past really easily without being noticed.

To be quite frank, if at that stage Jez didn't even know Jane (which I think is so, but please correct me, with cites, if wrong) why would he notice a woman passing by who was shapeless as she was drowned in her partners huge jacket ? 
Not noticing is especially viable if the conversation was interesting  and they were deeply involved in it imo

And the street lights were rather poor.


And of course the possibility of being distracted by a car suddenly turning round fits rather neatly into my mini theory  .  Also the headlights could have caused the mono chromatic street lighting to be added to, enabling Jane to see colour.



It is my understanding that Jez went to the loo at the Tapas are and then carried on in the Tapas area in a westerly direction along the little pathway that runs immediately to the south of the tennis courts (zoom in on Google Earth to see this, (but it is now covered by the heads of trees so you may have to do Google street view up Rua Maio to see the pathway entrance.).   He came out onto Rua P. de Maio, before circling around OC. 

OC is extensive and we dont know how wide a circle he took but he found himself on the eastern side of Rua Dr, FGM and crossed over to, afaik, chat with Gerry.  This happened immediately across the entrance Hollys back passage to the rear alleyway, but mainly in the road.

 

No one used it, that is why it wasn't mentioned.  That is with the exception of Matt when he left Rob and Janes place, but he would have been walking towards the light rather than walking into blackness.   Both SIL and I have seen it and told you how dark this alleyway was.  I wonder why you persist in pushing it ?
 
 
- snip-

Very unlikely cos he would have been going the wrong way, whether from The Millenium Restaurant or from the creche.  From neither place would Dr Totman have needed to cross the road Rua FGM either.  His flat was immediately before that road, so it seems that Jane did not see Dr Totman (Crechman), but another man who we call Tannerman


May I politely suggest that if possible you go and visit the area, and see for yourself.  Rather than spreading misinformation and causing confusion

I don't need to visit the area.  Firstly FP and RO described the car park side at night as dark/scary in which case there was no need to avoid the back passage.  Secondly I can see everything with my own eyes via Google Earth.  Thirdly even if I visited I would be basing it on my perception of whether or not it was dark/scary and not those who had decide whether to use car park side or back passage. 

You and others keep insisting Dr T was walking the "wrong way" when you have no idea whether or not he was going or returning from crèche or on some other journey.   

This is a discussion board where all views are welcome providing they do not break the high level rules set out on the homepage.  If you disagree with a post it is sufficient to set out your reasons why.  Therefore please desist from accusing others of spreading misinformation and causing confusion. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't need to visit the area.  Firstly FP and RO described the car park side at night as dark/scary in which case there was no need to avoid the back passage.  Secondly I can see everything with my own eyes via Google Earth.  Thirdly even if I visited I would be basing it on my perception of whether or not it was dark/scary and not those who had decide whether to use car park side or back passage. 

You and others keep insisting Dr T was walking the "wrong way" when you have no idea whether or not he was going or returning from crèche or on some other journey.   

This is a discussion board where all views are welcome providing they do not break the high level rules set out on the homepage.  If you disagree with a post it is sufficient to set out your reasons why.  Therefore please desist from accusing others of spreading misinformation and causing confusion.

And Sadie I thought you and others here endorsed the McCanns view that dining out at tapas was akin to eating in the back garden.  In which case how come there was some foreboding dark and scary back passage separating tapas and 5A that was to be avoided at all costs?

[Holly Goodhead]

I think a lot of the above comes under the heading of spreading misinformation.

Maybe it has been done previously but if not I think we need to put JW's testimony under the microscope in an attempt to determine the precise route taken.