Author Topic: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked  (Read 41598 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2019, 02:25:42 PM »
You agree with the PJ and Oakley then that Jane Tanner was an unreliable witness?
All witness statements are unreliable to a greater or lesser extent imo.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Eleanor

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2019, 02:27:42 PM »
You agree with the PJ and Oakley then that Jane Tanner was an unreliable witness?

Why should Jane Tanner be an unreliable witness?  She didn't know what she was seeing at the time.

Jane Tanner no longer talks about it because there would be no purpose.  The Police of both Countries know about it, which is enough.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2019, 02:31:55 PM »
You agree with the PJ and Oakley then that Jane Tanner was an unreliable witness?

I think it's more both the PJ and Oakley who were unreliable

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2019, 04:05:41 PM »
I think it's more both the PJ and Oakley who were unreliable

Then you have to include Heriberto and kmc in your thoughts.
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Offline kmc

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2019, 04:55:43 PM »
You agree with the PJ and Oakley then that Jane Tanner was an unreliable witness?

It is a scientific fact that memory is inherently fallible...and as such it would be foolish to suggest any witness to be “entirely” reliable, particularly when one of the witness took exactly the same route twice in the same evening. We also know that JT would have felt considerable pressure from the group to select which exact trip she had witnessed the man and child, which must have been difficult to pinpoint - especially if you had done the same route twice within just over a half an hour period.

What stands out from both statements is that JT and the Smith family, independently of each other, describe seeing on the same night an uncannily similar man and child - height, clothing and general description wise, they are almost identical.  (We also know that if JT witnessed him later in the evening - the time needed to walk the distance would fit almost exactly with both sightings) .

I don’t believe JT comes across as malicious or untrustworthy and I have no reason to disbelieve that she did indeed see a man - I only question when exactly she saw him, and not because she is unreliable but rather because she is human.

I think both the PJ and Oakley suggesting JT was an unreliable witness, speaks volumes about their own reliability to assess and consider evidence.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2019, 04:58:00 PM »
It is a scientific fact that memory is inherently fallible...and as such it would be foolish to suggest any witness to be “entirely” reliable, particularly when one of the witness took exactly the same route twice in the same evening. We also know that JT would have felt considerable pressure from the group to select which exact trip she had witnessed the man and child, which must have been difficult to pinpoint - especially if you had done the same route twice within just over a half an hour period.

What stands out from both statements is that JT and the Smith family, independently of each other, describe seeing on the same night an uncannily similar man and child - height, clothing and general description wise, they are almost identical.  (We also know that if JT witnessed him later in the evening - the time needed to walk the distance would fit almost exactly with both sightings) .

I don’t believe JT comes across as malicious or untrustworthy and I have no reason to disbelieve that she did indeed see a man - I only question when exactly she saw him, and not because she is unreliable but rather because she is human.

I think both the PJ and Oakley suggesting JT was an unreliable witness, speaks volumes about their own reliability to assess and consider evidence.

Good One.

Offline Anthro

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2019, 05:12:15 PM »
One fly in the ointment with that idea is the Tanner sighting fits very poorly with going to or coming from the night crèche.

It can be done but there are easier, shorter, more logical routes.

If it was Totman, he was doing it the hard way.  *%87

Isn’t the easier and shorter route through the car park at block 6, then around the Waterside village/Palm Bay swimming pool?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 05:17:42 PM by Anthro »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2019, 05:37:37 PM »
It is a scientific fact that memory is inherently fallible...and as such it would be foolish to suggest any witness to be “entirely” reliable, particularly when one of the witness took exactly the same route twice in the same evening. We also know that JT would have felt considerable pressure from the group to select which exact trip she had witnessed the man and child, which must have been difficult to pinpoint - especially if you had done the same route twice within just over a half an hour period.

What stands out from both statements is that JT and the Smith family, independently of each other, describe seeing on the same night an uncannily similar man and child - height, clothing and general description wise, they are almost identical.  (We also know that if JT witnessed him later in the evening - the time needed to walk the distance would fit almost exactly with both sightings) .

I don’t believe JT comes across as malicious or untrustworthy and I have no reason to disbelieve that she did indeed see a man - I only question when exactly she saw him, and not because she is unreliable but rather because she is human.

I think both the PJ and Oakley suggesting JT was an unreliable witness, speaks volumes about their own reliability to assess and consider evidence.

If a witness gives the wrong time a scant hour after they say they saw something then their evidence can't be relied on, whatever the reason may be.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2019, 05:40:57 PM »
If a witness gives the wrong time a scant hour after they say they saw something then their evidence can't be relied on, whatever the reason may be.
Who in this case provided reliable evidence in your opinion?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline misty

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2019, 06:28:09 PM »
It is a scientific fact that memory is inherently fallible...and as such it would be foolish to suggest any witness to be “entirely” reliable, particularly when one of the witness took exactly the same route twice in the same evening. We also know that JT would have felt considerable pressure from the group to select which exact trip she had witnessed the man and child, which must have been difficult to pinpoint - especially if you had done the same route twice within just over a half an hour period.

What stands out from both statements is that JT and the Smith family, independently of each other, describe seeing on the same night an uncannily similar man and child - height, clothing and general description wise, they are almost identical.  (We also know that if JT witnessed him later in the evening - the time needed to walk the distance would fit almost exactly with both sightings) .

I don’t believe JT comes across as malicious or untrustworthy and I have no reason to disbelieve that she did indeed see a man - I only question when exactly she saw him, and not because she is unreliable but rather because she is human.

I think both the PJ and Oakley suggesting JT was an unreliable witness, speaks volumes about their own reliability to assess and consider evidence.

How do you correlate a later sighting by Jane with DCI Redwood's revelation moment, which placed Dr Totman in "uncannily similar clothing" & carrying his daughter near 5A at circa 2115hrs?

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2019, 08:10:02 PM »
How many young girls were sleeping at the creche that night?  How would they have been collected by their parents?  Which parent would have done the carrying?  Think about it.

Obviously there was another man roaming the streets, who had a poor taste in fashion & a terrible haircut, carrying their child in an awkward manner, like they were carrying firewood.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2019, 08:12:15 PM »
Isn’t the easier and shorter route through the car park at block 6, then around the Waterside village/Palm Bay swimming pool?

Yes, if I understand you correctly.
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2019, 08:22:29 PM »
Who in this case provided reliable evidence in your opinion?

Why ask me? I'm not the one suggesting a witness got her evidence wrong.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2019, 09:02:09 PM »
Obviously there was another man roaming the streets, who had a poor taste in fashion & a terrible haircut, carrying their child in an awkward manner, like they were carrying firewood.
So you are unable to think it through, as suspected. 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2019, 09:07:44 PM »
How do you correlate a later sighting by Jane with DCI Redwood's revelation moment, which placed Dr Totman in "uncannily similar clothing" & carrying his daughter near 5A at circa 2115hrs?

It obviously didn't occur to Redwood that Jane Tanner might have got the time wrong. @)(++(*
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