Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked

[Anthro]

Anthro said Heriberto discovered phone data.  He didn't discover it as such as it was in the file available placed in the public domain.

Yes, Heriberto was able to collate data from phone calls between the three people. It was considered important enough by officials, to pursue.

[Anthro]

The 3 Portuguese guys identified from phone records?  OG didn't find any evidence against them probably because they weren't involved.  If OG thought they were involved but had insufficient evidence would they continue drawing millions from HO for further funding?

Since you asked who Heriberto is, I shared his information.

[barrier]

Yes, Heriberto was able to collate data from phone calls between the three people. It was considered important enough by officials, to pursue.

So did OG.

[Anthro]

So did OG.

But wasn’t it Heri to give impetus to this?

[barrier]

But wasn’t it Heri to give impetus to this?

On whose say so.

[jassi]

But wasn’t it Heri to give impetus to this?

Does it matter? Didn't seem to lead anywhere. Just another wrong theory.

[ShiningInLuz]

You rightly corrected me in that DCI Redwood did not identify 'Tannerman' as Dr T.  Now it's my time to correct you in that DCI Redwood, nor anyone else in a professional capacity, has referred to 'Tannerman' as coming from anywhere let alone the crèche. 

One of the things that we picked up very quickly was the fact that there was a night crèche that was operating from the main Ocean Club reception – and  8 families had left 11 children in there – and one particular family we spoke to us gave us information that was really interesting and exciting. In fact, I would say it was – it was a revelation moment when, having discussed with them what hey were doing on the night, they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting.

There's no mention of what the family were doing.  Which official has said otherwise. 

How on earth could JT know where 'Tannerman' was going when she didn't even know who he was?

Let me try this one final time.

Crèche + Tannerman = no go.   

It doesn't matter if Tannerman was coming from the crèche or going to it.  The Tanner sighting does not fit either.

Is there anything complex about that at all?

Jane Tanner recognised this non-fit.

I'm done on this one Holly.  Feel free to speculate to your heart's content.

Tanner saw a man who does not fit Redwood's ponderings and does not fit Totman.

Which might be why he's still on the Find Madeleine website.

[jassi]

Alternatively, maybe Tanner never saw anyone in the first place.

[Anthro]

Does it matter? Didn't seem to lead anywhere. Just another wrong theory.

I think it does matter. It was valid information which had to be investigated.

This is what he investigated:

I have found, in June 2013, in the first volumes of the Polícia Judiciária Files, that a man is referenced, J.C., who: (a) was living near the 5A apartment the day Madeleine was abducted, (b) was also living near the location where the Smith family saw the suspect, (c) had a previous record for theft, (d) was an Ocean Club employee, (e) was not working between 09:00 pm and 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007 (then it was said he did not go to work that day), (f) might know well the Ocean Club apartments, (g) was in the zone at 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, and (h) was in the zone at the time Madeleine was abducted (confirmed by his mobile phone records). The records include phone communications via voice or by SMS with his friend R. at 17:26, 21:25, 21:38 and 21:51 (the last confirmed by PJ files). The block 5 (where the 5A apartment is) had a theft on 5L on April 17th. 2007, and an intent of theft on G5 (5G) on approximately April 26th. 2007. That is, 17 and 7 days before the abduction of Madeleine.

[jassi]

Didn't PJ investigate these people in the first place and exclude them ?

[Holly Goodhead]

Let me try this one final time.

Crèche + Tannerman = no go.   

It doesn't matter if Tannerman was coming from the crèche or going to it.  The Tanner sighting does not fit either.

Is there anything complex about that at all?

Jane Tanner recognised this non-fit.

I'm done on this one Holly.  Feel free to speculate to your heart's content.

Tanner saw a man who does not fit Redwood's ponderings and does not fit Totman.

Which might be why he's still on the Find Madeleine website.

How am I speculating when I'm simply following the official line?

There's no official line of who the family was that DCI Redwood spoke with let alone where the man in question was going to or coming from.  And I've no idea why you consider JT or the 'Find Madeleine site more valuable sources of information over the most senior officer tasked with investigating in a professional capacity? 

The night crèche records are not in the public domain.  Only those investigating in a professional capacity know who was on the list and what they said unless info was leaked? 

[Admin]

It's an open question. According to DCI Redwood, Dr Totman did speak about his beliefs.
Snipped from transcript of Crimewatch October 2013...


No-one should be in any doubt that Jane's sighting occurred at 2115hrs based on what SY disclosed to us, or that Dr Totman had collected his daughter from the creche rather than being on the way to drop her off.

So why did Redwood have such difficulty explaining why the witness was going in the wrong direction?

Did Totman wander about, back and forth, on the road outside blocks 4, 5 and 6 for instance?   If he did, it was an odd way to carry a small child.  And if he did then why not say so?  And how come he didn't eyeball everyone else that was supposedly loitering about block 5 that night?

[ShiningInLuz]

How am I speculating when I'm simply following the official line?

There's no official line of who the family was that DCI Redwood spoke with let alone where the man in question was going to or coming from.  And I've no idea why you consider JT or the 'Find Madeleine site more valuable sources of information over the most senior officer tasked with investigating in a professional capacity? 

The night crèche records are not in the public domain.  Only those investigating in a professional capacity know who was on the list and what they said unless info was leaked?

There are 2 other DCIs tasked with OG, so if you think Redwood is the most senior can we have a cite, please.

I find Jane Tanner's statement more compelling than that of a DCI who conducted a circus in Luz.

As to the Find Madeleine site, either it is completely thick and the McCanns are being kept in the dark or ...

While we're at it, what crèche records?  The ones we've never seen?  And which were not, AFAIK, mentioned by Redwood?

[Holly Goodhead]

There are 2 other DCIs tasked with OG, so if you think Redwood is the most senior can we have a cite, please.

I find Jane Tanner's statement more compelling than that of a DCI who conducted a circus in Luz.

As to the Find Madeleine site, either it is completely thick and the McCanns are being kept in the dark or ...

While we're at it, what crèche records?  The ones we've never seen?  And which were not, AFAIK, mentioned by Redwood?

Afaik DCI Redwood was the only DCI on the case at the time of the 'revelation'. 

No one has the same investagatory powers as law enforcement so I can't see the evidence JT and 'Find Madeleine' are more reliable. 

If Crèche records didn't exist how do you think DCI R identified 8 families had 11 children in the crèche?  What do you think the mechanics were in terms of parents handing over small sleeping children to nannies in a facility operated by MW?  We know day crèche records existed as per KM signing out MM at 5.30 pm on 3rd May.  So if not the same process of an evening what processes and safeguards were in place to confirm children were collected by their own parents?

[ShiningInLuz]

Afaik DCI Redwood was the only DCI on the case at the time of the 'revelation'. 

No one has the same investagatory powers as law enforcement so I can't see the evidence JT and 'Find Madeleine' are more reliable. 

If Crèche records didn't exist how do you think DCI R identified 8 families had 11 children in the crèche?  What do you think the mechanics were in terms of parents handing over small sleeping children to nannies in a facility operated by MW?  We know day crèche records existed as per KM signing out MM at 5.30 pm on 3rd May.  So if not the same process of an evening what processes and safeguards were in place to confirm children were collected by their own parents?

Point 3.  So you are relying on speculation.  Thanks for that clarification.

Point 2.  Jane Tanner was there.  OG wasn't.

Point 1.  Goalpost shifting.  3 DCIs, who may or may not be of 1 mind.