The phone call

[Holly Goodhead]

It doesn't.

It does.  I'm not saying it shows NB made the call just that it was entirely possible for him to have done so before any shots were fired. Jurors were misled over this in that they were told JB entered NB/June's bedroom and opened fire with NB sustaining the facial wounds there.  How could he then have made the phone call when the pathological evidence showed he was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter and had he attempted to put his mouth to the phone he would have transferred blood stains it.

The physical evidence at soc places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained his facial wounds so entirely possible he came up the stairs from the kitchen having made the call to JB.

[Holly Goodhead]

Mmm. Whilst I'm not condoning what he did, he wasn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last, to 'play away' during a wife's pregnancy. Bottom line was that it was only sex, and as such, just another appetite to feed. Once sated, forgotten. We must also remember that his and Sheila's probably wasn't a mutual love match. Once the pregnancy was lost, which forced their marriage, it may have been that he was looking for a way out, but was stopped by Sheila, desperate to be a mother, becoming pregnant with the twins and following a difficult pregnancy giving birth to boys he adored. As the saying goes, "Man cannot live on bread alone".

But I don't think it was just another appetite to feed as CC ended up living with the woman in question: Jan Flowers. It seems she eventually saw the light and offloaded him.

[G-Unit]

Mmm. Whilst I'm not condoning what he did, he wasn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last, to 'play away' during a wife's pregnancy. Bottom line was that it was only sex, and as such, just another appetite to feed. Once sated, forgotten. We must also remember that his and Sheila's probably wasn't a mutual love match. Once the pregnancy was lost, which forced their marriage, it may have been that he was looking for a way out, but was stopped by Sheila, desperate to be a mother, becoming pregnant with the twins and following a difficult pregnancy giving birth to boys he adored. As the saying goes, "Man cannot live on bread alone".

Nevertheless it nullifies your attempt to suggest Caffell was still enamoured of Sheila, doesn't it? How do you know it was 'only sex'?

[G-Unit]

And June wasn’t fatally injured at that time...Jeremy shot her dead between the eyes after she got up and ran

People usually run away from the person with the gun, so shooting them between the eyes would be difficult.

[APRIL]

Nevertheless it nullifies your attempt to suggest Caffell was still enamoured of Sheila, doesn't it? How do you know it was 'only sex'?

MY attempt? I'm not aware of ever having suggested that such was the case.............although I have no doubts that he had once been in lust with her. As the mother of his children he probably retained a fondness for her.

[Myster]

MY attempt? I'm not aware of ever having suggested that such was the case.............although I have no doubts that he had once been in lust with her. As the mother of his children he probably retained a fondness for her.

And he still retains contact with and obviously has a fondness for Christine, Sheila's mother.

[Caroline]

It does.  I'm not saying it shows NB made the call just that it was entirely possible for him to have done so before any shots were fired. Jurors were misled over this in that they were told JB entered NB/June's bedroom and opened fire with NB sustaining the facial wounds there.  How could he then have made the phone call when the pathological evidence showed he was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter and had he attempted to put his mouth to the phone he would have transferred blood stains it.

The physical evidence at soc places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained his facial wounds so entirely possible he came up the stairs from the kitchen having made the call to JB.

They weren't misled, the defence could have brought that up at trial and didn't. It's basic commons sense to suggest that if a call was made, then it was clearly made before he was shot - his defence thought it best not to pursue - there must have been a reason.

It's also entirely possible that he pushed pass Bamber and there are other possibilities.

[Caroline]

People usually run away from the person with the gun, so shooting them between the eyes would be difficult.

Hard to run away when you've been shot through the leg.

[Caroline]

Nevertheless it nullifies your attempt to suggest Caffell was still enamoured of Sheila, doesn't it? How do you know it was 'only sex'?

I'm not sure why you would need the opinion of someone from a forum when you have his own words either from his book or from interviews. No one knows how he felt better than he did/does.

[Holly Goodhead]

They weren't misled, the defence could have brought that up at trial and didn't. It's basic commons sense to suggest that if a call was made, then it was clearly made before he was shot - his defence thought it best not to pursue - there must have been a reason.

It's also entirely possible that he pushed pass Bamber and there are other possibilities.

Lawyers are as capable as anyone of being incompetent and negligent especially if they had no prior experience of mass shooting which obviously they didn't.

Even MT QC at the 2002 appeal hearing has NB making the call after he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  His argument was an officer used the phone and inadvertently removed the blood stains.  This is clearly nonsense but illustrates another QC not on top of his brief.  Roll on 3rd appeal with a top notch QC like William Clegg.

[Caroline]

Lawyers are as capable as anyone of being incompetent and negligent especially if they had no prior experience of mass shooting which obviously they didn't.

Even MT QC at the 2002 appeal hearing has NB making the call after he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  His argument was an officer used the phone and inadvertently removed the blood stains.  This is clearly nonsense but illustrates another QC not on top of his brief.  Roll on 3rd appeal with a top notch QC like William Clegg.

In order to achieve a 3rd appeal there needs to be compelling new evidence and there is none.

[G-Unit]

Hard to run away when you've been shot through the leg.

I think you need to tell Ispywithmybigeye, not me.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11235.msg575056#msg575056

[G-Unit]

Lawyers are as capable as anyone of being incompetent and negligent especially if they had no prior experience of mass shooting which obviously they didn't.

Even MT QC at the 2002 appeal hearing has NB making the call after he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  His argument was an officer used the phone and inadvertently removed the blood stains.  This is clearly nonsense but illustrates another QC not on top of his brief.  Roll on 3rd appeal with a top notch QC like William Clegg.

Did Jeremy Bamber use Kingsley Napley all the way through?

[Holly Goodhead]

In order to achieve a 3rd appeal there needs to be compelling new evidence and there is none.

But you're not privy to what is going on behind the scenes.

[Holly Goodhead]

Did Jeremy Bamber use Kingsley Napley all the way through?

No.  When he was arrested and interviewed under caution he was represented by local solicitor Bruce Bowler.  Imo he might well have been served better by continuing with this solicitor.  I always thought it was his then girlfriend Anji Greaves who sought out David Napley's firm but Brett Collins said recently it was him.  Anyhow I understand from another barrister that it was the first case Napley's firm had taken on funded by legal aid and that this resulted in somewhat of an inferior service.  Post trial the appeals process swung into action with the same legal team.  Thereafter it has been all over the place with various players dipping in and out on a mainly pro nono basis resulting in a lack of proper management and oversight of the case.