The phone call

[Caroline]

No need to rely on random articles and posters' interpretations when we have official word from Prof Vincent Egan.

I'm sure he'd be a quack is he thought Bamber was a psychopath.

[Holly Goodhead]

That was just the part they weren't sure about because of the technical criteria.

Yes it is technical and certainly was beyond the likes of Malcolm Fletcher who misled the court based on forensic testimony from Dr Vincent DiMao.

[Caroline]

Yes it is technical and certainly was beyond the likes of Malcolm Fletcher who misled the court based on forensic testimony from Dr Vincent DiMao.

You mean based on someone else's opinion that you do agree with?

[APRIL]

No need to rely on random articles and posters' interpretations when we have official word from Prof Vincent Egan.

Is Prof Vincent Egan the definitive word, or is his the only one you're willing to consider?

[Vertigo Swirl]

What evidence have I batted away?

Which expert at trial said in his/her opinion JB was likely to be guilty or even alluded to such?

The most damning evidence came from Malcolm Fletcher.  When asked to introduce himself to the court, unlike other experts, he did not refer to high level qualifications or membership of professional bodies but referred to working in the firearms Sept for 13 years and "a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy".

Every single piece of evidence that Jeremy not Sheila committed the murders you have an off-pat explanation for, every single one.  There isn’t one single piece of evidence of his guilt which you have conceded points to him being the killer as far as I’m aware.  Am I right? 

[Caroline]

Every single piece of evidence that Jeremy not Sheila committed the murders you have an off-pat explanation for, every single one.  There isn’t one single piece of evidence of his guilt which you have conceded points to him being the killer as far as I’m aware.  Am I right?

No because mystery tests will prove he's innocent.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

What conclusive evidence have I batted away?

The defence and prosecution agreed at trial there were only two possibilities: SC committed the murders and committed suicide in some altered state of mind or JB committed the murders with the probable motives of greed and hatred for his family.  Only one of the possible perps was tested for psychopathy.

Why would I not rely on Prof Vincent Egan? 

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/people/vincent.egan

You rely too much on “experts”, Holly

They may not be all they seem

Professor Vincent Egan isn’t a qualified Psychiatrist: he’s a Psychologist. What’s more, he was paid by the defence to do a report on Jeremy Bamber and his findings, and what’s somewhat worrying, is that he’s known in his field to regularly make reports for the DEFENCE.

But more worrying that that is, one psychologist alone cannot make a diagnosis by doing a few random questionnaires over the course of an hour or so. The actual test he used is available online, including the twin test to try to decipher if the participant is lying. I suggest you do both those tests yourself (I’ll find the link for you) and I guarantee to you that you’ll easily know which would be the most apt answer if you wanted to appear to have no psychopathy traits. Interestingly, Jeremy scored on the very low side, which is unusual for even normal people as we all have — whether we like to believe it or not — some traits to our character where we would, say, lie to save our own skin. No-one is perfect, but according to Jeremy’s test results he almost scored perfection — and Vincent Egan wasn’t suspicious of that?

Vincent Egan’s test results aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

To diagnose psychopathy a thorough evaluation is required, including numerous tests, numerous in-depth interviews, all taken over a relatively long period of time — and more than one psychiatrist with extensive qualifications is needed to determine a positive diagnosis.

These thorough evaluations by more than one psychiatrist are not to be confused with hurried questionnaires taken for legal purposes, such as the one Jeremy Bamber paid for, as they do not meet the criteria needed to establish psychopathy.

This is just another of JB’s attempts to try and make out he’s not a psychopath when not only did two psychiatrists say he definitely was one, Jeremy himself told Julie Mugford that he knew he wasn’t normal as he didn’t have normal emotions. And Colin said he saw Jeremy studying him after the murders, and realised he was watching him so he’d know how to behave in front of people, and how to show outward signs of grief.

That’s why his behaviour was so bizarre, one minute he was crouched over pretending to collapse with grief, then minutes later he was grinning and tucking into bacon sandwiches, saying he was “starving”, talking about buying a Porsche, and drinking Champagne like he was celebrating at a wedding. EVERYONE, police included, were stunned by his behaviour. I myself remember seeing him on the news at the funeral and immediately felt he was overacting — it was so easy to see.

You come across as an intelligent woman, Holly, so I can’t understand why you can’t see what everyone else can see...

[mrswah]

You rely too much on “experts”, Holly

They may not be all they seem

Professor Vincent Egan isn’t a qualified Psychiatrist: he’s a Psychologist. What’s more, he was paid by the defence to do a report on Jeremy Bamber and his findings, and what’s somewhat worrying, is that he’s known in his field to regularly make reports for the DEFENCE.

But more worrying that that is, one psychologist alone cannot make a diagnosis by doing a few random questionnaires over the course of an hour or so. The actual test he used is available online, including the twin test to try to decipher if the participant is lying. I suggest you do both those tests yourself (I’ll find the link for you) and I guarantee to you that you’ll easily know which would be the most apt answer if you wanted to appear to have no psychopathy traits. Interestingly, Jeremy scored on the very low side, which is unusual for even normal people as we all have — whether we like to believe it or not — some traits to our character where we would, say, lie to save our own skin. No-one is perfect, but according to Jeremy’s test results he almost scored perfection — and Vincent Egan wasn’t suspicious of that?

Vincent Egan’s test results aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

To diagnose psychopathy a thorough evaluation is required, including numerous tests, numerous in-depth interviews, all taken over a relatively long period of time — and more than one psychiatrist with extensive qualifications is needed to determine a positive diagnosis.

These thorough evaluations by more than one psychiatrist are not to be confused with hurried questionnaires taken for legal purposes, such as the one Jeremy Bamber paid for, as they do not meet the criteria needed to establish psychopathy.

This is just another of JB’s attempts to try and make out he’s not a psychopath when not only did two psychiatrists say he definitely was one, Jeremy himself told Julie Mugford that he knew he wasn’t normal as he didn’t have normal emotions. And Colin said he saw Jeremy studying him after the murders, and realised he was watching him so he’d know how to behave in front of people, and how to show outward signs of grief.

That’s why his behaviour was so bizarre, one minute he was crouched over pretending to collapse with grief, then minutes later he was grinning and tucking into bacon sandwiches, saying he was “starving”, talking about buying a Porsche, and drinking Champagne like he was celebrating at a wedding. EVERYONE, police included, were stunned by his behaviour. I myself remember seeing him on the news at the funeral and immediately felt he was overacting — it was so easy to see.

You come across as an intelligent woman, Holly, so I can’t understand why you can’t see what everyone else can see...

So, has Jeremy Bamber ever had one of these thorough evaluations to find out whether or not he is a psychopath?  If he hasn't, then we cannot know whether or not he is one.

[puglove]

You rely too much on “experts”, Holly

They may not be all they seem

Professor Vincent Egan isn’t a qualified Psychiatrist: he’s a Psychologist. What’s more, he was paid by the defence to do a report on Jeremy Bamber and his findings, and what’s somewhat worrying, is that he’s known in his field to regularly make reports for the DEFENCE.

But more worrying that that is, one psychologist alone cannot make a diagnosis by doing a few random questionnaires over the course of an hour or so. The actual test he used is available online, including the twin test to try to decipher if the participant is lying. I suggest you do both those tests yourself (I’ll find the link for you) and I guarantee to you that you’ll easily know which would be the most apt answer if you wanted to appear to have no psychopathy traits. Interestingly, Jeremy scored on the very low side, which is unusual for even normal people as we all have — whether we like to believe it or not — some traits to our character where we would, say, lie to save our own skin. No-one is perfect, but according to Jeremy’s test results he almost scored perfection — and Vincent Egan wasn’t suspicious of that?

Vincent Egan’s test results aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

To diagnose psychopathy a thorough evaluation is required, including numerous tests, numerous in-depth interviews, all taken over a relatively long period of time — and more than one psychiatrist with extensive qualifications is needed to determine a positive diagnosis.

These thorough evaluations by more than one psychiatrist are not to be confused with hurried questionnaires taken for legal purposes, such as the one Jeremy Bamber paid for, as they do not meet the criteria needed to establish psychopathy.

This is just another of JB’s attempts to try and make out he’s not a psychopath when not only did two psychiatrists say he definitely was one, Jeremy himself told Julie Mugford that he knew he wasn’t normal as he didn’t have normal emotions. And Colin said he saw Jeremy studying him after the murders, and realised he was watching him so he’d know how to behave in front of people, and how to show outward signs of grief.

That’s why his behaviour was so bizarre, one minute he was crouched over pretending to collapse with grief, then minutes later he was grinning and tucking into bacon sandwiches, saying he was “starving”, talking about buying a Porsche, and drinking Champagne like he was celebrating at a wedding. EVERYONE, police included, were stunned by his behaviour. I myself remember seeing him on the news at the funeral and immediately felt he was overacting — it was so easy to see.

You come across as an intelligent woman, Holly, so I can’t understand why you can’t see what everyone else can see...

You're right, Spy, Holly is a supremely intelligent woman. Bamber is lucky to have her on side, considering that his fan base mostly consists of fruitcakes, spiteful widows and strange, unfulfilled men who live their weird lives vicariously. But....your posts are rude and abrasive. You don't have to do this. Just state your case, you're obviously much better informed than any member on the "blue" forum. Say what you want to say, without being unkind, because this forum gives you the opportunity to speak freely.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

So, has Jeremy Bamber ever had one of these thorough evaluations to find out whether or not he is a psychopath?  If he hasn't, then we cannot know whether or not he is one.

I don’t think he NEEDS a test — it’s obvious he’s a psychopath.

However, when he was on remand he was interviewed several times by the prison psychiatrist who determined Jeremy was a psychopath, a pathological liar, and he believed he killed his family.,

[Vertigo Swirl]

So, has Jeremy Bamber ever had one of these thorough evaluations to find out whether or not he is a psychopath?  If he hasn't, then we cannot know whether or not he is one.

Only those defending him care about the issue as they are the ones keen to show that he is not one, the fact that he murdered his family is enough to show what sort of a person he is, no need to slap any other label on him apart from cold blooded killer.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

You're right, Spy, Holly is a supremely intelligent woman. Bamber is lucky to have her on side, considering that his fan base mostly consists of fruitcakes, spiteful widows and strange, unfulfilled men who live their weird lives vicariously. But....your posts are rude and abrasive. You don't have to do this. Just state your case, you're obviously much better informed than any member on the "blue" forum. Say what you want to say, without being unkind, because this forum gives you the opportunity to speak freely.

Thank you, Pug

You’re right: I do fly off the handle and can be rude, which does me no favours at all. So in that respect I’m stupid.

There’s no excuse, really, but I have seen so, so many fruitcakes, loons and weirdos on various forums, that I’ve possibly become exasperated when they don’t seem to grasp the most simple of facts. I shouldn’t let it bother me, but due to it being such a tragic case, I feel repelled when I see people almost swooning over Bamber when he’s an evil, vile child murderer, and also killed his own mother, sistra and father. I just can’t understand it!

When he was young he was good-looking (though he didn’t have movie star looks IMO), and I think these women still see him as he was then, and that’s the reason they campaign for him. Had he looked like, say, Fred West, I guarantee they wouldn’t be baking cakes for him, and sending him fanny mail!

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Only those defending him care about the issue as they are the ones keen to show that he is not one, the fact that he murdered his family is enough to show what sort of a person he is, no need to slap any other label on him apart from cold blooded killer.

Actually, in a way, it’s even worse for him if he isn’t a psychopath

That means he can shoot bullets into two little boys heads as they lay sleeping, sucking their thumb, and despite feeling emotions is still capable of doing that simply for GREED.

That’s worse.

[puglove]

I don’t think he NEEDS a test — it’s obvious he’s a psychopath.

However

, when he was on remand he was interviewed several times by the prison psychiatrist who determined Jeremy was a psychopath, a pathological liar, and he believed he killed his family.,

Of course he's a psychopath. An innocent man, banged up for all those years, would have crumbled. He would have been broken. But Bamber still tries to suck in the silly women, then turn against them when they don't deliver. He will always do this. Every few years, a daft group of old biddies discover a picture of Bamber when he was 24, fall in love with him, write to him and promise him money. Conveniently forgetting that he shot 2 little children while they slept in their grandparent's house.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Of course he's a psychopath. An innocent man, banged up for all those years, would have crumbled. He would have been broken. But Bamber still tries to suck in the silly women, then turn against them when they don't deliver. He will always do this. Every few years, a daft group of old biddies discover a picture of Bamber when he was 24, fall in love with him, write to him and promise him money. Conveniently forgetting that he shot 2 little children while they slept in their grandparent's house.

That’s so true.

I’ve noticed how psychopaths seem to have the ability to cope in the most awful of conditions, and it doesn’t seem to bother them. They seem to work round it. Jeremy has done that. In a telephone interview he had which is on YouTube he sounds almost upbeat. He even mentions the pros of being in prison: he’s got TV, goes to the gym, enjoys snacks, writing letters...he discusses it like someone would talk about a 2 star hotel that isn’t “that bad” and you can find things to do there 🙂

He’s obviously become institutionalised and possibly would be scared to come out, as the world is so different now and I doubt he’d be able to cope. I also suspect time has kind of stood still for him, and in a weird way he’s stuck in a time-warp and still sees himself as that 24-year-old man who’d be able to take up where he left off...he’s as deluded as those strange women he attracts.