Author Topic: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.  (Read 37470 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #195 on: April 27, 2020, 01:08:08 PM »
Nobody apart from Jeremy Bamber knows , with absolute certainty,   who is  "patently guilty " and  "patently innocent" in this case.  Even he, perhaps, has come to believe something that isn't true!

I have no doubt that Jeremy Bamber knows from start to finish exactly what the truth is ... please do not forget that he engineered the false information which directed the police in the direction of Sheila Cappell, using her fragile mental health as his despicable lever.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #196 on: April 27, 2020, 01:18:37 PM »
You precis your opinion in your post as you interpret it but having had the benefit of reading the events for myself please note that I have reached a totally different interpretation of events which takes me not a million miles away from the conclusion of Judge and majority Jury regarding mass killer Bamber.

I would be obliged if you would respect that because at the end of the day my opinion might be no worse informed than yours.

I don’t know where the initial shots were pumped into Nevill Bamber’s body: neither do you.

I don’t know the sequence the shots were fired in: neither do. The experts have given an indication of what they think may have happened but the only expert who can give a definitive answer to that conundrum is the killer Bamber and he is still blaming his victim.

I couldn’t begin to attempt to justify the savage beating … broken nose et al as recorded in evidence but which seems to have dropped off some radars … wasn’t yours one?  Forgive me if I’ve misremembered that as there appears to be a lot of it going about.

In my opinion many of your posts not only fly in the face of reason but actually impart disinformation which reflects your interpretation of events and not necessarily the spirit or the reality of the facts we have.  Else why do you resist the notion of Bamber's guilt as confirmed by the judge and majority jury at his trial; the failed appeals despite which you appear to hold the belief that yet another appeal is in order.

But we're not talking about my precis, opinions or posts. I put to you a question which you've ignored:

If it is all so patently obvious as you seem to think perhaps you could explain how initially the police surgeon, all officers, bar 1, and the pathologist thought they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide for over a month.

About a month after the murders a DCI new to the case was appointed to review all the evidence and concluded SC was responsible.


I've asked you to put forward your own reconstruction based on the physical evidence at soc.  If you think JB was responsible then it should be easy for to to reconstruct based on the totality of the physical evidence: blood stains and lack of, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks?

I've also asked you to identify which injuries either Dr Vanezis or Prof Knight claimed SC was incapable of inflicting on NB or any of the other victims including herself?

The fact JB's case has been all round the houses for years on end is not at all unusual.  It happens with all high profile long running MOJ's even when cases are relatively straightforward which this case isn't.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #197 on: April 27, 2020, 01:28:36 PM »
But we're not talking about my precis, opinions or posts. I put to you a question which you've ignored:

If it is all so patently obvious as you seem to think perhaps you could explain how initially the police surgeon, all officers, bar 1, and the pathologist thought they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide for over a month.

About a month after the murders a DCI new to the case was appointed to review all the evidence and concluded SC was responsible.


I've asked you to put forward your own reconstruction based on the physical evidence at soc.  If you think JB was responsible then it should be easy for to to reconstruct based on the totality of the physical evidence: blood stains and lack of, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks?

I've also asked you to identify which injuries either Dr Vanezis or Prof Knight claimed SC was incapable of inflicting on NB or any of the other victims including herself?

The fact JB's case has been all round the houses for years on end is not at all unusual.  It happens with all high profile long running MOJ's even when cases are relatively straightforward which this case isn't.

I'll answer it for you, Bamber was lucky that he managed to convince the head of the investigation, who was unwilling to look at any other scenario - so, until b both Jones and the family managed to go over his head and some of the forensics came back - they believed Jeremy's tall tale.

Why would Vanezis talk about injuries Sheila was unable to inflict? That's not his job but he has recently commented on this and I will post later when I have access to my laptop.

Offline Common sense

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #198 on: April 27, 2020, 01:36:46 PM »
If it is all so patently obvious as you seem to think perhaps you could explain how initially the police surgeon, all officers, bar 1, and the pathologist thought they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide for over a month.

About a month after the murders a DCI new to the case was appointed to review all the evidence and concluded SC was responsible.

The case turned on two highly contentious issues: Julie Mugford's testimony and a silencer.

Forensic and pathological evidence is not the panacea that TV shows such as CSI and Silent Witness have lead us to believe and cases are rarely solved in the first few weeks. One thing common to those TV shows though is that the protagonists often learn the hard way about making assumptions instead of following the evidence.

As you rightly point out, the physical evidence did not initially ring any alarm bells, Sheila could have battered her already injured father, swinging the rifle over her head like a club as evidenced by the broken lampshade and she could have shot herself twice but Taff Jones and others were blinkered to other possibilities by the assumptions made at the very beginning.

It's disingenuous to say that the case turned on only two issues and ignore the emerging pattern of evidence over the course of that month and beyond -

Dr Vanesis said he would have expressed concerns about the clean state of SC had he been called to the scene.

The complete lack of any forensic evidence on Sheila, no blood, wax on her nightie or lead on her hands from supposedly loading the cartridges, no cuts on her feet despite there being broken glass all over the kitchen. (No sugar either) 

The admissions made by JB himself after JM had grassed him up regarding entering WHF via the windows, the burglary ridiculously passed off as "testing security" and sneaking a peak at the wills in the safe.

The hacksaw blade that was found to match scratch marks on the window catch.

JB breaking in to WHF after his arrest to get his car documents - or pretending he did to explain any forensic evidence that he didn't know had not yet been found.

The bike at Goldhanger that had mud on the sides of the tyres.

The parts of his wetsuit found at WHF 

The evidence of JMs flatmates that cast doubt on the timing of the call to her and thus JBs account of NBs supposed call and when he called the police, which he already contradicted himself with between interviews.

The mysterious lack of towels in his bathroom - who doesn't leave a hand towel in the bathroom? JBs explanation that he kept them in the airing cupboard lacks sense -bath towels yes, but who would go to the toilet, wash their hands and then go to the airing cupboard to dry them? ( I think the washing machine had been on too but not sure )

Bamber beratting PC West and asking what was taking so long, "my father sounded terrified" - directly contradicting his own tardy actions.

Bamber standing outside telling police about all the guns in the house and that SC was familiar with them all but later admitting he had never seen her fire one as an adult.

Stan Jones overhearing JB laughing on the morning of the murders that set him on his trail.

JM was not the only witness to give evidence of JBs expressed dislike of his family either - he would bitch about them to anyone that would listen.

Once the police started to look at JB with suspicion, things changed until the conclusion EP had been on the wrong track couldn't be ignored.



« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 01:40:18 PM by Common sense »

Offline Caroline

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #199 on: April 27, 2020, 01:43:51 PM »
Forensic and pathological evidence is not the panacea that TV shows such as CSI and Silent Witness have lead us to believe and cases are rarely solved in the first few weeks. One thing common to those TV shows though is that the protagonists often learn the hard way about making assumptions instead of following the evidence.

As you rightly point out, the physical evidence did not initially ring any alarm bells, Sheila could have battered her already injured father, swinging the rifle over her head like a club as evidenced by the broken lampshade and she could have shot herself twice but Taff Jones and others were blinkered to other possibilities by the assumptions made at the very beginning.

It's disingenuous to say that the case turned on only two issues and ignore the emerging pattern of evidence over the course of that month and beyond -

Dr Vanesis said he would have expressed concerns about the clean state of SC had he been called to the scene.

The complete lack of any forensic evidence on Sheila, no blood, wax on her nightie or lead on her hands from supposedly loading the cartridges, no cuts on her feet despite there being broken glass all over the kitchen. (No sugar either) 

The admissions made by JB himself after JM had grassed him up regarding entering WHF via the windows, the burglary ridiculously passed off as "testing security" and sneaking a peak at the wills in the safe.

The hacksaw blade that was found to match scratch marks on the window catch.

JB breaking in to WHF after his arrest to get his car documents - or pretending he did to explain any forensic evidence that he didn't know had not yet been found.

The bike at Goldhanger that had mud on the sides of the tyres.

The parts of his wetsuit found at WHF 

The evidence of JMs flatmates that cast doubt on the timing of the call to her and thus JBs account of NBs supposed call and when he called the police, which he already contradicted himself with between interviews.

The mysterious lack of towels in his bathroom - who doesn't leave a hand towel in the bathroom? JBs explanation that he kept them in the airing cupboard lacks sense -bath towels yes, but who would go to the toilet, wash their hands and then go to the airing cupboard to dry them? ( I think the washing machine had been on too but not sure )

Bamber beratting PC West and asking what was taking so long, "my father sounded terrified" - directly contradicting his own tardy actions.

Bamber standing outside telling police about all the guns in the house and that SC was familiar with them all but later admitting he had never seen her fire one as an adult.

Stan Jones overhearing JB laughing on the morning of the murders that set him on his trail.

JM was not the only witness to give evidence of JBs expressed dislike of his family either - he would bitch about them to anyone that would listen.

Once the police started to look at JB with suspicion, things changed until the conclusion EP had been on the wrong track couldn't be ignored.

Well said CS - all of those things took a while to gather from individual circumstances to a tight case of circumstantial evidence. People don't realise that most cases are built on the same kind of evidence. This is no different - it isn't unique, the unique aspect is the fact that Bamber refuses to accept responsibility because he will be considered a child killer - which is what he is.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #200 on: April 27, 2020, 01:51:14 PM »
Yet another post trying to shift the blame from the patently guilty perpetrator to the patently innocent victim.

I don't know what savegary Sheila Caffell witnessed on the night she was slaughtered along with her parents and her two little boys ... but she must certainly have known something horrific beyond belief was going on. 
It was all happening to her and to her family not in a nightmare but in real life.  Unthinkable!!!


So true, and so horrific, Brietta.

I can’t understand how some people can be so callous and cruel...

It’s bloodcurdling to think some people sympathise with the man who took their lives after terrorising and beating them.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 02:50:49 PM by Ispywithmybigeye »
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline The General

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #201 on: April 27, 2020, 01:53:04 PM »

So true, and so horrific, Brietta.

I can’t understand how some people can be so callous and cruel...

It’s bloodcurdling to think some people ymapthise with the man who took their lives after terrorising and beating them.
Ted Bundy
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #202 on: April 27, 2020, 01:55:29 PM »

So true, and so horrific, Brietta.

I can’t understand how some people can be so callous and cruel...

It’s bloodcurdling to think some people ymapthise with the man who took their lives after terrorising and beating them.

Who is ymathising with whom?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
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Offline Caroline

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #203 on: April 27, 2020, 01:59:35 PM »
Who is ymathising with whom?

Opps! The spelling/typo police have arrived - again, I thought you didn't like goading?

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #204 on: April 27, 2020, 02:07:51 PM »
If it is all so patently obvious as you seem to think perhaps you could explain how initially the police surgeon, all officers, bar 1, and the pathologist thought they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide for over a month.

About a month after the murders a DCI new to the case was appointed to review all the evidence and concluded SC was responsible.

The case turned on two highly contentious issues: Julie Mugford's testimony and a silencer.

Ah, but they didn’t, Holly

It was only Taff who had the seemingly emotional problem

All the other officers suspected Jeremy from when he first pooped up slowly in his car to meet them: it was Taff Jones who put EP to shame, hence why  they got rid of him and brought another DCI in to take over.

It was after that when it all unravelled, and Jeremy was arrested.

Dr Vanezis, the pathologist, was perturbed when he did the the post mortems (he said so) and only reluctantly agreed on the first day that it “could” be murder/suicide, as Taff INSISTED it was, and showed Dr Vanezis no photographs nor took him to the soc.

The next day Vanezis was FURIOUS (read CAL’s book) when he went to WHF with police and after seeing soc realised it was impossible for Sheila to have murdered anyone and then killed herself. Taff turned up, purple with rage, and spat “What’s HE doing here?!!!l

Is that the normal reaction of a DCI?

If I didn’t know, I’d think he was in cahoots with JB!

Thank God he got slung off and the perp, Jeremy Bamber was eventually arrested and charged. Jeremy Bamber is dangerous, and that’s why the Home Secretary ordered that he must never be released.

Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #205 on: April 27, 2020, 02:13:58 PM »
If something is claimed to be a fact then it's possible to provide a link to the source of that fact. If something is an opinion or speculation it's possible to make that clear by posting 'in my opinion' or 'I think'.

It's not rocket science and it ensures that forum rules are adhered to.

I only learned last week through your post about the claim that NB's nose was broken originated from the CoA doc. I knew it wasn't in any of Dr V's notes, statements, reports or trial testimony but had no idea where the myth originated from. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #206 on: April 27, 2020, 02:26:15 PM »
Ah, but they didn’t, Holly

It was only Taff who had the seemingly emotional problem

All the other officers suspected Jeremy from when he first pooped up slowly in his car to meet them: it was Taff Jones who put EP to shame, hence why  they got rid of him and brought another DCI in to take over.

It was after that when it all unravelled, and Jeremy was arrested.

Dr Vanezis, the pathologist, was perturbed when he did the the post mortems (he said so) and only reluctantly agreed on the first day that it “could” be murder/suicide, as Taff INSISTED it was, and showed Dr Vanezis no photographs nor took him to the soc.

The next day Vanezis was FURIOUS (read CAL’s book) when he went to WHF with police and after seeing soc realised it was impossible for Sheila to have murdered anyone and then killed herself. Taff turned up, purple with rage, and spat “What’s HE doing here?!!!l

Is that the normal reaction of a DCI?

If I didn’t know, I’d think he was in cahoots with JB!

Thank God he got slung off and the perp, Jeremy Bamber was eventually arrested and charged. Jeremy Bamber is dangerous, and that’s why the Home Secretary ordered that he must never be released.

The above is all part of the mythology that surrounds the case. 

Firstly Chief Sup Harris arrived at soc long before DCI Jones and he, along with police surgeon Ian Craig, deemed the case murder/suicide.

4 officers attended throughout the 5 post-mortems: DI Miller, DI Cook, DC Hammersly and DC Bird and all were of the opinion the case was murder/suicide.

When Dr V attended WHF the following day, having completed the pm's a candid discussion was entered into with a number of officers and the only dissenter was DS Jones who Dr V said offered nothing of evidential value.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline APRIL

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #207 on: April 27, 2020, 02:32:59 PM »
If it is all so patently obvious as you seem to think perhaps you could explain how initially the police surgeon, all officers, bar 1, and the pathologist thought they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide for over a month.

About a month after the murders a DCI new to the case was appointed to review all the evidence and concluded SC was responsible.

The case turned on two highly contentious issues: Julie Mugford's testimony and a silencer.


Well, before you make sweeping claims, perhaps we could take a closer look at "................initially, the police surgeon (et al)......................thought they were dealing with 4 murders and as suicide for over a month".

We can assume that when the first police arrived at the scene, they had scant knowledge of the problem. Enter Jeremy. ALL their initial knowledge came from him. This knowledge would have filtered it's way down to ALL personnel on scene. I'm willing to bet, that not one of them disputed that information, that they all accepted it to be true. It probably, for a while, became a mantra, apart from the fact that they'd have had to adhere to accepted belief. Beliefs are accepted until they're questioned, or given reason to question. Within that month, 2, who hadn't believed Jeremy from the start -and weren't present at WHF- were able to make their voices heard.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #208 on: April 27, 2020, 02:44:41 PM »
Unlike other forums this forum has always been anti JB.  Currently I'm the only regular poster who supports JB.  AA also supports JB but posts irregularly.  G-Unit and Mrswah are undecided.  The rest are anti JB or at least post in this vein.  In other words you are in the majority here and yet you only seem to hurl insults at the minority who disagree with you? 

I haven't seen anyone insult you but if they have or do then please report it by using the 'Report to moderator' function and your report will be investigated.

With regard to cites, sources etc I've posted the forum rules above.  Anyone can launch onto a forum and write lengthy posts making all sorts of claims but we're interested in quality over quantity and fact based posts.  Eg you claim SC had her nails professionally manicured in MV but when asked for evidence your stock answer appears to be "I'll find it for you" but then nothing is forthcoming even after several requests. 

With regard to my approach to moderating I think I apply a 'light touch' to the rules set out by John.  John will know I rarely pm him about moderating and contrary to your opinion the only poster I've ever put forward for some sort of ban was a 'supporter'.  I also prevented another 'supporter' from using emoticons and gifs to goad.

I accept everyone has their own style of posting and you're free to choose yours so long as you adhere to the high level rules set out on the homepage.

Maybe we could all come to some sort of agreement over when cites and sources are required?  Everyone?


I’m willing to provide links when I have them  at hand, but I’m not going to search through hundreds of documents/screenshots simply because you don’t want to belive me, Holly.  I’ve spent a huge amount of my time on here, and that’s my choice, I know that, but I’m usually busy with other things too and can’t afford the time to search through hundreds and hundreds of documents whilst neglecting important things.

Of course, if I can find them quickly, I’d happily give links (which I have done frequently) but as this is a discussion board and not a court , I don’t see why I should show evidence when anyone can Google as well as I can and see they’re correct; plus, some on here — including yourself — give scenarios (which I seldom do) and expect people to consider them seriously when you’ve dreamt them up.

As regards quality of posts, posting screenshots of minutes from a court can be boring and long-winded to many: yes, many of my posts may be long, but that shows I’ve taken time to explain rather than than just giving a retort that’s of no value. If you find it tiresome reading through explanations, I can try and shorten them for you.  But maybe you won’t understand the point I’m making if I leave details out. I’m sure you know court proceedings can drag on forever, and many people find much of it boring, but it’s essential to listen otherwise you’ll never get a true understanding of the facts. But this isn’t a court, Holly — it’s a forum — and we’re not under the same restrictions.

Finally, I really can’t be bothered to report someone for making a stupid swipe....this is an adult forum, not a playground.  If I may be so bold, perhaps you could lighten up a little and instead of wearing your Admins hat and monitoring who’s been “playing up” , then issuing warnings and sanctions to behave, you’d fare better in the long run. Who knows: you may get your own fanny club! That’s providing you don’t start issuing penalty fines...no-one likes traffic wardens

Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.
« Reply #209 on: April 27, 2020, 02:47:45 PM »
So if EP believed JB hook line and sinker why did DCI Jones check all the windows and doors?

Why did soc officers swing into action taking hundreds of images, collecting and documenting exhibits for forensic examination? 

The case has and will always hang on the blood/silencer evidence.  If it didn't the CCRC would not have referred the case to CoA in 2002 on the back of this.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?