Reconstruction of the WHF Murders

[Caroline]

It could surely be done as a computer simulation?

Possibly, but that is still open to error, the simulation is only as good as the data provided.

[Myster]

Possibly, but that is still open to error, the simulation is only as good as the data provided.

If a dilettante can knock something up with simple tools, just think what a pro can achieve...

https://vimeo.com/user51282558

[barrier]

As I've said previously a reconstruction will show NB's exact position in the farmhouse when he sustained the upstairs gsw's and the location of the perp.  It will not reveal JB or SC.

The contentious issue is whether NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom as the prosecution claimed or whether he sustained them on the landing stairs and main staircase with the perp already in the bedroom firing at June and then turning to inflict the gsw's to NB who just arrived on the landing.

Is this contentious with you,or his defence team?

[Caroline]

As I've said previously a reconstruction will show NB's exact position in the farmhouse when he sustained the upstairs gsw's and the location of the perp.  It will not reveal JB or SC.

The contentious issue is whether NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom as the prosecution claimed or whether he sustained them on the landing stairs and main staircase with the perp already in the bedroom firing at June and then turning to inflict the gsw's to NB who just arrived on the landing.

How is that a contentious issue - the case certainly doesn't stand or fall on it.

[Holly Goodhead]

It's not even capable of that with 100% accuracy and it certainly does NOT support a phone call.

If a reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the face wounds and the perp just inside the main bedroom this contradicts what jurors were told at trial.  It supports the tel call in three ways:

- shows NB was potentially coming from downstairs having been in the kitchen
- shows he could have made the call before the injuries he sustained upstairs which made purposeful speech thereafter impossible
- accounts for the lack of blood stains on the phone.

[Nicholas]

If a reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the face wounds and the perp just inside the main bedroom this contradicts what jurors were told at trial.  It supports the tel call in three ways:

- shows NB was potentially coming from downstairs having been in the kitchen
- shows he could have made the call before the injuries he sustained upstairs which made purposeful speech thereafter impossible
- accounts for the lack of blood stains on the phone.

I don’t believe there was a phone call

But if you think it happened, while NB was waiting for Bamber to answer why didn’t he use that opportunity to get rid of the ammunition next to the phone

[Vertigo Swirl]

If a reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the face wounds and the perp just inside the main bedroom this contradicts what jurors were told at trial.  It supports the tel call in three ways:

- shows NB was potentially coming from downstairs having been in the kitchen
- shows he could have made the call before the injuries he sustained upstairs which made purposeful speech thereafter impossible
- accounts for the lack of blood stains on the phone.

Equally he could have been shot as he was getting out of bed, and the cartridge on the stairs ended up there because it was accidentally knocked there by boot or dog, or came up in the tread of a police boot, how can you prove it didn’t?

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, what obstacles stand in your way from carrying out this reconstruction and what are you doing to try and overcome them?

It's extremely unlikely the case will go anywhere until the blood/silencer evidence is undermined.  In fact I would say until it can be demolished.  This is currently being worked on.  If it goes the way anticipated it allows other aspects eg a reconstruction to be added to the main appeal points ie blood/silencer.

JB is not entitled to any Legal Aid so the blood/silencer is  being funded privately.  Once an appeal has been granted perversely he becomes eligible for Legal Aid which will cover other tests including a reconstruction.

Also a reconstruction will require entry to WHF to take measurements and this will probably require an order from CCRC.

[Caroline]

If a reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the face wounds and the perp just inside the main bedroom this contradicts what jurors were told at trial.  It supports the tel call in three ways:

- shows NB was potentially coming from downstairs having been in the kitchen
- shows he could have made the call before the injuries he sustained upstairs which made purposeful speech thereafter impossible
- accounts for the lack of blood stains on the phone.

It doesn't prove a call.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's extremely unlikely the case will go anywhere until the blood/silencer evidence is undermined.  In fact I would say until it can be demolished.  This is currently being worked on.  If it goes the way anticipated it allows other aspects eg a reconstruction to be added to the main appeal points ie blood/silencer.

JB is not entitled to any Legal Aid so the blood/silencer is  being funded privately.  Once an appeal has been granted perversely he becomes eligible for Legal Aid which will cover other tests including a reconstruction.

Also a reconstruction will require entry to WHF to take measurements and this will probably require an order from CCRC.

Then it will never happen, as the forensics can never now be demolished. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Is this contentious with you,or his defence team?

The following was part of the prosecution case at trial:

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

The prosecution case at trial is that JB entered his parents bedroom whilst they were in bed and opened fire, therefore how could NB have made the call when the pathologist said the injuries sustained upstairs rendered him incapable of purposeful speech and why wasn't the phone blood stained?

The physical evidence shows NB wasn't shot in the bedroom but on the landing with the perp already in the bedroom shooting out onto the landing. 

[Holly Goodhead]

How is that a contentious issue - the case certainly doesn't stand or fall on it.

I've never said it does stand or fall on it.  I've always made clear the blood/silencer underpins the conviction.

[Holly Goodhead]

Then it will never happen, as the forensics can never now be demolished.

.

What forensics?

[Holly Goodhead]

It doesn't prove a call.

It doesn't have to.

[Common sense]

The following was part of the prosecution case at trial:

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

The prosecution case at trial is that JB entered his parents bedroom whilst they were in bed and opened fire, therefore how could NB have made the call when the pathologist said the injuries sustained upstairs rendered him incapable of purposeful speech and why wasn't the phone blood stained?

The physical evidence shows NB wasn't shot in the bedroom but on the landing with the perp already in the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.

I don't think that was the prosecution case exactly Holly, the point about NB being too injured to call JB at Goldhanger is moot if JB is in the bedroom shooting him!

I do like your idea of NB first being shot on the stairs as he realises his folly in turning his back on SC to phone JB and rushes up to tackle the situation.. so he gets shot on the stairs, carries on rushing at Sheila..gets to the top of the stairs,  She retreats, fires 3 more rounds into him, he turns back around without being able to lay a finger on her and runs/stumbles back downstairs to meet his brutal end.

It's not impossible and even plausible but I can't see how any reconstruction can prove it