The phone call

[APRIL]

There, there

[Caroline]

 

[Nicholas]

But wasn't that if the handset hadn't been replaced properly?

If A called B and they ended the call by returning handsets to cradle but if either didn't return properly the loud continuous noise would start up?

Bamber got the ‘engaged tone’ Holly

You can listen to him here https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/unknown-album saying just that

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I don't know what state the line had to be in to enable the GPO operator to listen in. If NB made a call to JB albeit JB made other calls his end did this still leave the line open NB's end?  Or is it the case that by simply removing the handset from the cradle enabled the GPO operator to listen in? I agree there doesn't seem to be anything probative for either side.

I disagree on the reconstruction as I think it is capable of determining NB's precise location when he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  It wasn't something explored at trial at all.  I will upload Malcom Fletcher's trial testimony (ballistics) shortly.

Gun crime is low in UK especially some 35 years ago so theres no reason to believe the QC's would have experience of shooting reconstructions.

In the 1980s the GPO were the only suppliers of telephone lines.

If a caller inadvertently left the receiver off the hook, the GPO would blast a horn type sound to alert the household that the phone had been been left off the hook. It happened to me once or twice.

The GPO could listen in if it was off the hook (as they did at WHF), and they were also able to interrupt a telephone call in an emergency, say, if someone had been trying to get through to an engaged tone and it was extremely urgent they spoke to them. In the event, it’s been proven that the phone was off the hook — so there’s nothing to really discuss about that...

All that aside, Jeremy Bamber himself told the police that Nevill rang him and then the phone cut off “as though someone had pressed the buttons down on the cradle”. He tried to infer it wasn’t Nevill who ended the call, but someone sneaking up behind him and gently terminating the call. And we all know Sheila couldn’t have done that. To even discuss the possibility is ludicrous, but let’s suppose she had, that would mean she’d not been frenzied like JB claimed, but carefully and quietly crept up and cut the call off while she held the rifle in one hand.

Are you suggesting Sheila did that, and Nevill didn’t turn round and disarm her while she placed her hand in front of him?

As for a reconstruction being able to prove exactly where Nevill was standing when he was shot eight times in total, it wouldn’t prove who actually shot him. A reconstruction wouldn’t even prove exactly where Nevill was shot as the shell casings could have ricocheted or fallen depending on various things — and it still wouldn’t prove anything. But it’s irrelevant, because it’s already been proven WHERE Nevill was shot; how/why he died; and how he was viciously beaten to a pulp in the kitchen. Ballistics, forensics and the pathologist proved that.

The ONLY reconstruction that would prove anything is to have one of Sheila supposedly shooting herself. Luckily for Jeremy Bamber, the prosecution didn’t even need to prove the obvious, as logic proves she couldn’t have. But as you’re so hellbent in trying to make out Jeremy is innocent, I think you’d be wise to prove by reconstruction that Sheila was able to shoot herself, then go downstairs and put the silencer away walking upside down so blood didn’t pour down her face, body and nightdress, then shoot herself again in that unusual spot in the master bedroom.

[Caroline]

In the 1980s the GPO were the only suppliers of telephone lines.

If a caller inadvertently left the receiver off the hook, the GPO would blast a horn type sound to alert the household that the phone had been been left off the hook. It happened to me once or twice.

The GPO could listen in if it was off the hook (as they did at WHF), and they were also able to interrupt a telephone call in an emergency, say, if someone had been trying to get through to an engaged tone and it was extremely urgent they spoke to them. In the event, it’s been proven that the phone was off the hook — so there’s nothing to really discuss about that...

All that aside, Jeremy Bamber himself told the police that Nevill rang him and then the phone cut off “as though someone had pressed the buttons down on the cradle”. He tried to infer it wasn’t Nevill who ended the call, but someone sneaking up behind him and gently terminating the call. And we all know Sheila couldn’t have done that. To even discuss the possibility is ludicrous, but let’s suppose she had, that would mean she’d not been frenzied like JB claimed, but carefully and quietly crept up and cut the call off while she held the rifle in one hand.

Are you suggesting Sheila did that, and Nevill didn’t turn round and disarm her while she placed her hand in front of him?

As for a reconstruction being able to prove exactly where Nevill was standing when he was shot eight times in total, it wouldn’t prove who actually shot him. A reconstruction wouldn’t even prove exactly where Nevill was shot as the shell casings could have ricocheted or fallen depending on various things — and it still wouldn’t prove anything. But it’s irrelevant, because it’s already been proven WHERE Nevill was shot; how/why he died; and how he was viciously beaten to a pulp in the kitchen. Ballistics, forensics and the pathologist proved that.

The ONLY reconstruction that would prove anything is to have one of Sheila supposedly shooting herself. Luckily for Jeremy Bamber, the prosecution didn’t even need to prove the obvious, as logic proves she couldn’t have. But as you’re so hellbent in trying to make out Jeremy is innocent, I think you’d be wise to prove by reconstruction that Sheila was able to shoot herself, then go downstairs and put the silencer away walking upside down so blood didn’t pour down her face, body and nightdress, then shoot herself again in that unusual spot in the master bedroom.

Her hand resting on her body shpws she was staged. try it, when you relax, your hand falls to the side.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Her hand resting on her body shpws she was staged. try it, when you relax, your hand falls to the side.

True, Caroline

It falls to the side

What’s more, you need two arms to hold a rifle, and as her left arm was up above her head I’d like Holly to do a reconstruction for everyone.

For Jem!

After all, by proving that Sheila COULD have indeed carried all that out, that will help JB immensely!!

[Holly Goodhead]

Her hand resting on her body shpws she was staged. try it, when you relax, your hand falls to the side.

No one doubts the soc was interfered with. A/PS Woodcock's wit stat, DC Bird's soc images and Martyn Ismail's testimony are evidence of this.  But it wasn't JB as he was outside with EP.

When you've completed transcribing Dr V's testimony you will see he has SC sitting partially upright when she sustained the 2 gsw's with the second fatal gsw causing her head to fall back.  Prof Knight was of the same opinion.

[Caroline]

No one doubts the soc was interfered with. A/PS Woodcock's wit stat, DC Bird's soc images and Martyn Ismail's testimony are evidence of this.  But it wasn't JB as he was outside with EP.

When you've completed transcribing Dr V's testimony you will see he has SC sitting partially upright when she sustained the 2 gsw's with the second fatal gsw causing her head to fall back.  Prof Knight was of the same opinion.

I have finished transcribing Dr V's notes - years ago. Why can't you distinguish WHEN SHE SUSTAINED THE SHOT from still being sat upright when discovered. Have a look at the link below - it tells you all about the law of gravity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gravitation

[ISpyWithMyEye]

No one doubts the soc was interfered with. A/PS Woodcock's wit stat, DC Bird's soc images and Martyn Ismail's testimony are evidence of this.  But it wasn't JB as he was outside with EP.

When you've completed transcribing Dr V's testimony you will see he has SC sitting partially upright when she sustained the 2 gsw's with the second fatal gsw causing her head to fall back.  Prof Knight was of the same opinion.

Holly,

Why do you doubt scientific facts?

And why doubt Caroline? In my view, Caroline is the most knowledgeable of all as she was once a supporter (for purely innocent/concerned reasons) so not only does she have evidence from JM himself, she’s read just about everything there is to read on the case.

What she says is true: Sheila’s head was slightly raised when she was shot the first time, and after being shot her body collapsed as it would do. When JB shot her the second time, some time after too, she was laying in that position she was found in. The rigor mortis and mirrored skin on her left arm proved that.

JB had indeed pulled her by the legs further down the carpet, but not by much — as her nightdress proves.

I suspect you’re focussing too much on what the police hastily jotted down in their little notebooks. Don’t forget, they’re humans too, and the horrific scene affected them badly. It stands to reason that they’d have hastily written words such as “woman, aged late 20s, head against cabinet in an upwards position”. The last thing a PC in panic when scribbling notes with his heart racing whilst looking at a young woman shot dead is his grammar...

But she wasn’t sitting UP. she was laying with her head raised up showing her neck, against the cabinet, with dried blood trails flowing upwards on her face. Had she been sitting up, the blood trails would have trailed downwards towards her chin and neck.

The courts and jury understood that...it’s easy to understand, and I’m surprised you don’t.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly,

Why do you doubt scientific facts?

And why doubt Caroline? In my view, Caroline is the most knowledgeable of all as she was once a supporter (for purely innocent/concerned reasons) so not only does she have evidence from JM himself, she’s read just about everything there is to read on the case.

What she says is true: Sheila’s head was slightly raised when she was shot the first time, and after being shot her body collapsed as it would do. When JB shot her the second time, some time after too, she was laying in that position she was found in. The rigor mortis and mirrored skin on her left arm proved that.

JB had indeed pulled her by the legs further down the carpet, but not by much — as her nightdress proves.

I suspect you’re focussing too much on what the police hastily jotted down in their little notebooks. Don’t forget, they’re humans too, and the horrific scene affected them badly. It stands to reason that they’d have hastily written words such as “woman, aged late 20s, head against cabinet in an upwards position”. The last thing a PC in panic when scribbling notes with his heart racing whilst looking at a young woman shot dead is his grammar...

But she wasn’t sitting UP. she was laying with her head raised up showing her neck, against the cabinet, with dried blood trails flowing upwards on her face. Had she been sitting up, the blood trails would have trailed downwards towards her chin and neck.

The courts and jury understood that...it’s easy to understand, and I’m surprised you don’t.

I don't doubt the scientific facts at all.  This is the reason I buy into testimony from prosecution expert Martyn Ismail that when SC sustained the second gsw her head fell back against the bedside cabinet.  This aligns with testimony from first respondent A/PS Woodcock who made a statement in Sep to this effect. Both contradict soc images which rules out JB moving SC.

Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight observed trails of blood from SC's gsw's and mouth running in opposite directions ie blood from gsw's running vertically from her neck and horizontally from her mouth.  (Although Dr V does describe the direction of the blood running from the mouth as vertical?).

[Caroline]

I don't doubt the scientific facts at all.  This is the reason I buy into testimony from prosecution expert Martyn Ismail that when SC sustained the second gsw her head fell back against the bedside cabinet.  This aligns with testimony from first respondent A/PS Woodcock who made a statement in Sep to this effect. Both contradict soc images which rules JB moving SC.

Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight observed trails of blood from SC's gsw's and mouth running in opposite directions ie blood from gsw's running vertically from her neck and horizontally from her mouth.  (Although Dr V does describe the direction of the blood running from the mouth as vertical?).

You pick and choose Holly! As I have already told you Woodcock confirms the blood pattern on SC's face which goes against gravity - she could have been sat up for long after being shot. Please provide the evidence from Vaneziz, Knight and Ismail that state SC's head would have been upright after being shot. I don't know what you have posted above but we have CS photographs and we can SEE that the blood is running from the sides of her mouth and has even run UP towards her left eye. You can't argue against gravity but you keep trying!

[The General]

Holly,

Why do you doubt scientific facts?

And why doubt Caroline? In my view, Caroline is the most knowledgeable of all as she was once a supporter (for purely innocent/concerned reasons) so not only does she have evidence from JM himself, she’s read just about everything there is to read on the case.

What she says is true: Sheila’s head was slightly raised when she was shot the first time, and after being shot her body collapsed as it would do. When JB shot her the second time, some time after too, she was laying in that position she was found in. The rigor mortis and mirrored skin on her left arm proved that.

JB had indeed pulled her by the legs further down the carpet, but not by much — as her nightdress proves.

I suspect you’re focussing too much on what the police hastily jotted down in their little notebooks. Don’t forget, they’re humans too, and the horrific scene affected them badly. It stands to reason that they’d have hastily written words such as “woman, aged late 20s, head against cabinet in an upwards position”. The last thing a PC in panic when scribbling notes with his heart racing whilst looking at a young woman shot dead is his grammar...

But she wasn’t sitting UP. she was laying with her head raised up showing her neck, against the cabinet, with dried blood trails flowing upwards on her face. Had she been sitting up, the blood trails would have trailed downwards towards her chin and neck.

The courts and jury understood that...it’s easy to understand, and I’m surprised you don’t.

Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

[Caroline]

Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

And that is the issue which Holly fails to accept. You also don't have to be an expert to understand that her hand could not have remained on the rifle in the position she was found. As soon as her body relaxed, it would have fallen to her side. It's an easy experiment to try for yourself.

[Holly Goodhead]

And that is the issue which Holly fails to accept. You also don't have to be an expert to understand that her hand could not have remained on the rifle in the position she was found. As soon as her body relaxed, it would have fallen to her side. It's an easy experiment to try for yourself.

SC was moved post first respondents arriving and pre soc images taken so there's no reliable photographic evidence of SC's found position.

[Caroline]

SC was moved post first respondents arriving and pre soc images taken so there's no reliable photographic evidence of SC's found position.

She wasn't - the blood trail prove it unless you think she defied gravity! There is photographic evidence to prove the way her blood flowed from fer mouth and nose.