Did Jeremy Bamber exhibit psychopathic tendencies?

[Vertigo Swirl]

How do we square this dichotomy then? Susan Atkins - was told to do it - not a psychopath; Bamber - told himself to do it  -psychopath.

I don’t know if Susan Atkins was a psychopath, maybe she was but this thread is not about her.  But in any case I don’t see a dichotomy.

[Nicholas]

I see your Hodel and raise you a Kemper: one of the most notorious serial killers in American history - endeared himself to his psychiatrists by being a model prisoner, and was trained to administer psychiatric tests to other inmates. One of his psychiatrists later said: "He was a very good worker and this is not typical of a sociopath.
An atypical sociopath - whodathunkit?
Again, my point is this loose, convenient label is all it is. And, as distasteful as it may be to some, it is, in it's simplest term notwithstanding conditioning, etc, a simple deficiency of the limbic system (although research now suggests that 'fight or flight' may not be as impaired as first thought).

What’s a ‘psychopath’, a ‘DSPD’ and should Peter Sutcliffe ever be released? By Bob Johnson Consultant Psychiatrist

”GMTV recently asked me about Peter Sutcliffe. I see his horrendous crimes coming from a bucketful of hate within him. He wasn’t born with it – he acquired it by misadventure. If this bucket is now empty – free him (so long as he compensates his victims for life) – if not, don’t. You empty this bucket by persuading him to grow up emotionally, and convincing him that contrary to all his childhood programming, human beings are intrinsically benign and sociable. That’s what we did in C-Wing – and it worked. I reckon it’s saved over a dozen prison lives since – the prison’s computer could confirm this in minutes – if the Home Office would finally agree. It’s elementary, humane common sense – if you want to stop people murdering and being violent, stop treating them hatefully – and they will.. Let’s get legal.

“Dr Bob Johnson is a consultant psychiatrist, author and Co-founder of the James Nayler Foundation. Formerly Head of Therapy at Ashworth Maximum Security Hospital, he was also Consultant Psychiatrist, Special Unit, C-Wing, Parkhurst Prison 1991-1996.

https://insidetime.org/whats-a-psychopath-a-dspd-and-should-peter-sutcliffe-ever-be-released/

[The General]

I don’t know if Susan Atkins was a psychopath, maybe she was but this thread is not about her.  But in any case I don’t see a dichotomy.

It's the wrong thread, granted, but she's an example - a pertinent example of the vagaries of the label.
That's the dichotomy you can't see.

[APRIL]

It might be. Does a killer always have to be a psychopath? Again, hey, he might be a raving psychopath and, under neurological examination he may be found to be fitting the medical diagnosis. And I like the work of Bob Hare and subsequent research that has examined the field, such as Hoffman, but they have created a convenient monster.
It's said 1% of the general population is a 'psychopath' - that's about 30 million people worldwide in 1985, so there's a chance he is, particularly given that he killed his entire family and the general population of jails house between 15%-25% of all inmates being labelled psychopaths. The odds are not in his favour, I grant you. He scores highly on the Hare checklist and the PCL-R. But it's not definitive because we still haven't seen these tests ever having been conducted, as a minimum.

Define "killer". If you're a purist who believes that all taking of another's life is murder, then No, NOT all killers are psychopaths. If, however,  the taking of another's life is done, without showing regard for that life, for gain, be it financial, sexual, or position, and the murderer presents their rational justification for it, I'd say they were a psychopath.

[Caroline]

I don't know. I leave diagnoses to the experts, hence the question.
Who were the experts and what test did they use?
Or is everyone here simply using the convenient label they've become accustomed to?

Susan Atkins participated in at least 5 murders whilst a member of the Manson family, apparently killing Sharon Tate, plunging a knife in to her unborn 8 month old foetus, dipping her finger in and licking the blood. Was she a psychopath, despite never being diagnosed?

Does the fact that she wasn't diagnosed make her not a psychopath? I'd say from this video, still showing now emotion and passing off blame on to others. Yep, pretty much!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-LiARYmqc

[Miss Taken Identity]

Colin’s never lied about a thing: everything he’s said has been substantiated. Dr Ferguson never said Sheila would get “worse” — schizophrenia is controllable with medication — and Sheila only had it MILDLY.

None of this fictitious nonsense makes sense: if Dr Ferguson truly said Sheila would get worse arrangements would have been put into place immediately for Colin to have sole custody of the twins, and all visits to Sheila would have been supervised.

It’s all rubbish.

It could be put down to cannabis use when she had these episodes of deep depression and metal traumatic episodes and mis diagnosed.

[The General]

Does the fact that she wasn't diagnosed make her not a psychopath? I'd say from this video, still showing now emotion and passing off blame on to others. Yep, pretty much!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-LiARYmqc

OK, so what would you say if I said that it is highly unlikely she killed anyone?

[Caroline]

There ya go - you just used the test.
So now we look at the physiology of psychopathy and the relationship of the limbic system, particularly the amygdala to psychopathic behaviour. That's another test, albeit probably not particularly identifiable with 1980's technology.
The point being, the test of a psychopath is not straightforward.

I didn't use the test, I gave it as an example because you mentioned it.

I really don't think I said it was straight forward. However, what I do know is, that if a man is responsible for killing his family in clod blood- which includes 2 six year old children, simply to inherit early and then pass the blame onto one of those victims - he pretty much fits the bill of a psychopath. Perhaps not in your mind - which is kind of strange given that you also think he's guilty? Or do you?

[Nicholas]

Define "killer". If you're a purist who believes that all taking of another's life is murder, then No, NOT all killers are psychopaths. If, however,  the taking of another's life is done, without showing regard for that life, for gain, be it financial, sexual, or position, and the murderer presents their rational justification for it, I'd say they were a psychopath.

and 3 decades plus of innocence fraud

[Holly Goodhead]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4867216/Dr-Max-s-wrong-call-Trump-mentally-ill.html?ITO=1490

And yes I know Trump hasn't killed anyone but the article is interesting and explains how in the US it is against the law for a psychiatrist to provide a diagnosis without actually meeting the individual.

[APRIL]

and 3 decades plus of innocence fraud

But of course! Nothing is ever their fault.

[Caroline]

OK, so what would you say if I said that it is highly unlikely she killed anyone?

Then I would say you contradicted yourself in your previous post.

[Caroline]

It might be. Does a killer always have to be a psychopath? Again, hey, he might be a raving psychopath and, under neurological examination he may be found to be fitting the medical diagnosis. And I like the work of Bob Hare and subsequent research that has examined the field, such as Hoffman, but they have created a convenient monster.
It's said 1% of the general population is a 'psychopath' - that's about 30 million people worldwide in 1985, so there's a chance he is, particularly given that he killed his entire family and the general population of jails house between 15%-25% of all inmates being labelled psychopaths. The odds are not in his favour, I grant you. He scores highly on the Hare checklist and the PCL-R. But it's not definitive because we still haven't seen these tests ever having been conducted, as a minimum.

No, not all killers are psychopaths and not all psychopaths are killers. You asked me earlier if Bamber had been tested using PLC-R but then here you suggest it simply creates a convenient monster. I don't think the test lives up to it's claims and it certainly isn't infallible. There are far better ways of detecting psychopathy now, that doesn't rely on subjects response. Perhaps someone should encourage Bamber to undergo a brain scan - that won't lie!

[Nicholas]

It might be. Does a killer always have to be a psychopath? Again, hey, he might be a raving psychopath and, under neurological examination he may be found to be fitting the medical diagnosis. And I like the work of Bob Hare and subsequent research that has examined the field, such as Hoffman, but they have created a convenient monster.
It's said 1% of the general population is a 'psychopath' - that's about 30 million people worldwide in 1985, so there's a chance he is, particularly given that he killed his entire family and the general population of jails house between 15%-25% of all inmates being labelled psychopaths. The odds are not in his favour, I grant you. He scores highly on the Hare checklist and the PCL-R. But it's not definitive because we still haven't seen these tests ever having been conducted, as a minimum.

You haven’t included the stats for those individuals who work within prisons (not inmates) who are also psychopaths

[Caroline]

I don’t know if Susan Atkins was a psychopath, maybe she was but this thread is not about her.  But in any case I don’t see a dichotomy.

I do in that Atkins is b....r all to do with Bamber.