“A Laughable Story”

[VIXTE]

I don't know about laughable but abduction from the children's bedroom has been shown to be less than credible compared to the abduction from the street scenario which at least is/supported by some credible evidence.

The street scenario would be possible only if:
* 1. Gerry left the front door open by mistake during his last visit.
2. Parent's lied about window- blind being found open
3. Matt Oldfield lied about extra light coming to the room during his visit

If Madeleine left through the unlocked patio doors she would have to: open the curtain, close the curtain, open the sliding doors, close the sliding doors, walk to the gate doors, open the gate doors, close the gate doors.
These steps would be too precise for a 3 year old.

* Factually incorrect.

[pathfinder73]

Gerry in his statement said that some slats were left open and that would explain why Matt thought more light was entering the bedroom.

[sadie]

Gerry in his statement said that some slats were left open and that would explain why Matt thought more light was entering the bedroom.

By slats, I take it you mean the tiny holes that were in some of the slats.  Not much light came thru them !   Had no slats been left open, the room would have been in total darkness from light sources outside.

Surely all the parents would leave those holey slats open, cos they wouldn't want their children possibly waking up to pitch blackness.  Matt, like the Mccanns, would have left the shutters down, but likely with the holey slats open for a bit of comfort.

For Matt to have seen this greenish light coming from the window indicates that the shutters were raised … and Madeleine was already gone IMO.

This green glow is another indicator that the shutters were up, as Kate and Amy have stated.   Can you understand that PFinder?


Just my opinion, but seems correct..

[Lace]

The street scenario would be possible only if:
* 1. Gerry left the front door open by mistake during his last visit.
2. Parent's lied about window- blind being found open
3. Matt Oldfield lied about extra light coming to the room during his visit

If Madeleine left through the unlocked patio doors she would have to: open the curtain, close the curtain, open the sliding doors, close the sliding doors, walk to the gate doors, open the gate doors, close the gate doors.
These steps would be too precise for a 3 year old.

* Factually incorrect.

Well said Vixte   can you imagine a child of that age turning around to close the child gate on the top of the steps in the dark?   No she wouldn't have been able to.

[pathfinder73]

By slats, I take it you mean the tiny holes that were in some of the slats.  Not much light came thru them !   Had no slats been left open, the room would have been in total darkness from light sources outside.

Surely all the parents would leave those holey slats open, cos they wouldn't want their children possibly waking up to pitch blackness.  Matt, like the Mccanns, would have left the shutters down, but likely with the holey slats open for a bit of comfort.

For Matt to have seen this greenish light coming from the window indicates that the shutters were raised … and Madeleine was already gone IMO.

This green glow is another indicator that the shutters were up, as Kate and Amy have stated.   Can you understand that PFinder?


Just my opinion, but seems correct..

Jane left only minutes after Matt returned and did not see an open window. You couldn't miss a raised shutter and open window in that car park. There is a street light next to the entrance.

[barrier]

Well said Vixte   can you imagine a child of that age turning around to close the child gate on the top of the steps in the dark?   No she wouldn't have been able to.

Did either GM,KM or MO mention anything about opening the said gate and closing it?

[sadie]

Jane left only minutes after Matt returned and did not see an open window. You couldn't miss a raised shutter and open window in that car park. There is a street light next to the entrance.

Yes you could.  In fact unless you had a special reason to stare in the darkness at Madeleines shutter, you definitely would.

Yes one  would miss the raised shutter because it was beyond ones periferal vision.   And nobody, not even YOU can see things beyond their peripheral vision.  Soz, PFinder.


BTW, that street light had it lamp in the middle of the leafy head of a tree on the G. E. street scene of that time.  Not much light from that. 


Science, dear PFinder .

[sadie]

Well said Vixte   can you imagine a child of that age turning around to close the child gate on the top of the steps in the dark?   No she wouldn't have been able to.

Having gone thru the gate, she would also be one step down.  I doubt she could reach the mechanism.  Most steps are 7" high/low and that is a lot for a little girl of 90cm (3 feet)

I doubt that she could reach from the step below.

I haven't checked the mechanism of the gate lock cos it is late and I am tired, but it is usually on the top or high up on the gate.


Most kids in a hurry or anxious would just leave it open anyway.

[barrier]

Having gone thru the gate, she would also be one step down.  I doubt she could reach the mechanism.  Most steps are 7" high/low and that is a lot for a little girl of 90cm (3 feet)

I doubt that she could reach from the step below.

I haven't checked the mechanism of the gate lock cos it is late and I am tired, but it is usually on the top or high up on the gate.


Most kids in a hurry or anxious would just leave it open anyway.

I'll ask again where's it stated by either of the three ckeckers on the night of the alleged abduction the gate was opened and fastened behind them?

[John]

The street scenario would be possible only if:
1. Gerry left the front door open by mistake during his last visit.
2. Parent's lied about window- blind being found open
3. Matt Oldfield lied about extra light coming to the room during his visit

If Madeleine left through the unlocked patio doors she would have to: open the curtain, close the curtain, open the sliding doors, close the sliding doors, walk to the gate doors, open the gate doors, close the gate doors.
These steps would be too precise for a 3 year old.

I don't believe for a moment that any of the above could negate the abduction from the street theory. According to the parents the patio door was intentionally left open so that Madeleine could get out. She probably did just that and ran straight into danger.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I don't believe for a moment that any of the above could negate the abduction from the street theory. According to the parents the patio door was intentionally left open so that Madeleine could get out. She probably did just that and ran straight into danger.

Open or unlocked? 

[sadie]

 

I don't believe for a moment that any of the above could negate the abduction from the street theory. According to the parents the patio door was intentionally left open so that Madeleine could get out. She probably did just that and ran straight into danger.

Nah, soz John … but an anxious  child of not yet 4 pulling back the curtains and then reclosing them, opening a patio door that I think was probably too hard for her ** and re-shutting it, descending the steps and opening a child proof gate, then from the step below re-shutting it, then Opening the garden gate and re-closing it from a step below doesn't seem sensible to me.

By the flimsy nature of the Tapas restaurant and the acute hearing of young ears, she would almost certainly be able to hear her Dad, Mum and friends enjoying themselves.  She knew where the restaurant was and it involved a walk of only 23 metres (25 yards or big paces) on the public path between 5A garden gate and the entrance to the Tapas area.
Also, at the top, before she descended the steps, the main lit place in front of her was the Tapas Restaurant.  She would look towards the lit places and see her Mum and Dad and Friends there... and hear them !


** Unless the patio doors are "Rolls Royce" in construction, they would take some effort to slide open. **

Scientifically a push at Madeleines low level would take more strength than a push at near the middle height of the door, because a cheaper patio door, which these appear, would tend to tilt and jam with a force lower down, IMO


Nah, John.  What you are saying doesn't make sense IMO and it would be a great co-incidence if an abductor just happened to be in the vicinity of the 23 metre walk.


This abduction was thoroughly planned it sems.

[G-Unit]

I don't believe for a moment that any of the above could negate the abduction from the street theory. According to the parents the patio door was intentionally left open so that Madeleine could get out. She probably did just that and ran straight into danger.

The first person to think of those gates was David Payne, apparently. He says he asked Kate about them as they approached 5A after she raised the alarm.

and she was adamant that those two gates were shut. Well you know there was two possibilities, she'd either been taken or she'd wandered off, no child is gonna wander off and shut two gates behind them so at that moment I knew, although I didn't want to believe it, but I knew that she'd been abducted.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

I would hope these doctors were a little more cautious when making medical diagnoses than they were when reaching crime scene conclusions.

Could a child with younger twin siblings be very aware that all gates and doors should be kept closed at all times in case of escape? Of course she could.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The first person to think of those gates was David Payne, apparently. He says he asked Kate about them as they approached 5A after she raised the alarm.

and she was adamant that those two gates were shut. Well you know there was two possibilities, she'd either been taken or she'd wandered off, no child is gonna wander off and shut two gates behind them so at that moment I knew, although I didn't want to believe it, but I knew that she'd been abducted.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

I would hope these doctors were a little more cautious when making medical diagnoses than they were when reaching crime scene conclusions.

Could a child with younger twin siblings be very aware that all gates and doors should be kept closed at all times in case of escape? Of course she could.

Such a sensible and logical child might also conclude that the twins would not be able to climb out of their cots and escape so closing the gates and doors in her haste to escape the terrors of the adult-free apartment would not be necessary.

[G-Unit]

Such a sensible and logical child might also conclude that the twins would not be able to climb out of their cots and escape so closing the gates and doors in her haste to escape the terrors of the adult-free apartment would not be necessary.

You're describing a child who is thinking. I was describing a child who had been trained to always close doors.