Author Topic: What Was The Motive?  (Read 28223 times)

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Offline William Wallace

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2021, 11:39:11 PM »
No we don't only hear about Mitchell's hoard of urine kept in bottles in his bedroom.

We hear about the now you see it now you don't knife sheath.

We hear about the outdoor log burner ~ we hear about Shane's computer.  In fact we only hear what was relevant enough to be led in evidence at Mitchell's murder trial.

The defence objected to the mention of Mitchell's urine habit ~ the trial judge allowed it to be introduced into evidence.

What we don't hear is your credible explanation for the 12 points I listed in the other thread.

Offline faithlilly

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2021, 12:00:33 AM »
What we don't hear is your credible explanation for the 12 points I listed in the other thread.

Brietta has admitted herself that she knows little about the case so perhaps she simply doesn’t know the answers.

For others it’s a case of ‘there’s none so blind....!
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2021, 10:30:59 PM »
No we don't only hear about Mitchell's hoard of urine kept in bottles in his bedroom.

We hear about the now you see it now you don't knife sheath.

We hear about the outdoor log burner ~ we hear about Shane's computer.  In fact we only hear what was relevant enough to be led in evidence at Mitchell's murder trial.

The defence objected to the mention of Mitchell's urine habit ~ the trial judge allowed it to be introduced into evidence.

I thought the inventory you referred to related to L M's bedroom?

The trial judge also made it clear that the jury should not judge LM based on his personal conduct or habits or lifestyle.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Brietta

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #138 on: May 01, 2021, 02:46:43 AM »
I thought the inventory you referred to related to L M's bedroom?

The trial judge also made it clear that the jury should not judge LM based on his personal conduct or habits or lifestyle.

Items considered irrelevant were were not raised during the trial.  The trial judge allowed Mitchell's bottles of urine much to the dismay of the defence and your good self or you wouldn't be making such a song and dance about it.

The defence didn't much like the introduction of Corrine Mitchell's calculated lie in the tattoo parlour about Mitchell's age but the judge allowed that too.

Here are examples of a youth who did what he wanted and a mother who was prepared to indulge him by lying for him.

I don't think Mitchell had a particular motive for murdering Jodie.  He just wanted to because it suited him and he did.  Neither do I think it was a spur of the moment thing.  I think he had been considering it for some time and I think he fully expected to get away with it.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mrswah

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Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #139 on: May 01, 2021, 10:34:52 AM »
Items considered irrelevant were were not raised during the trial.  The trial judge allowed Mitchell's bottles of urine much to the dismay of the defence and your good self or you wouldn't be making such a song and dance about it.

The defence didn't much like the introduction of Corrine Mitchell's calculated lie in the tattoo parlour about Mitchell's age but the judge allowed that too.

Here are examples of a youth who did what he wanted and a mother who was prepared to indulge him by lying for him.

I don't think Mitchell had a particular motive for murdering Jodie.  He just wanted to because it suited him and he did.  Neither do I think it was a spur of the moment thing.  I think he had been considering it for some time and I think he fully expected to get away with it.

What makes you think LM  had been planning the murder for some time?

In my experience, 14 year olds don't normally plan to murder their girlfriends, and neither do mothers normally lie for murdering sons. I agree it does sound as if he got away with too much at home: in my experience, that isn't unusual, and it is often because parents don't have the time /don't make the time to give teenagers the discipline they need.

Offline faithlilly

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2021, 02:12:40 PM »
What makes you think LM  had been planning the murder for some time?

In my experience, 14 year olds don't normally plan to murder their girlfriends, and neither do mothers normally lie for murdering sons. I agree it does sound as if he got away with too much at home: in my experience, that isn't unusual, and it is often because parents don't have the time /don't make the time to give teenagers the discipline they need.

Of course Jodi herself told a different story and considered Corrine to be much stricter than her own mum.

It’s such a pity that her voice seems to have been all but drowned out in this sorry tale.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2021, 03:25:48 PM »
What makes you think LM  had been planning the murder for some time?

In my experience, 14 year olds don't normally plan to murder their girlfriends, and neither do mothers normally lie for murdering sons. I agree it does sound as if he got away with too much at home: in my experience, that isn't unusual, and it is often because parents don't have the time /don't make the time to give teenagers the discipline they need.

I don't intend to enter the nature of nurture debate because I think what pertains in one situation is quite often contradicted by another.  But whether or not Corrine Mitchell was a single working mother or whether or not she had all day and everyday to devote entirely to her sons I doubt it would have had little or no effect on the way Mitchell turned out.

According to general background information, many of the signs of deviancy were evident as a child and as he approached puberty.  I think in some ways he was highly intelligent as well as charismatic if his circle of girl friends is anything to go by.

I too have had contact with youths male and female of his age group for going on thirty eight years and I can honestly say that in that time I encountered only two who gave me the creeps one of whom went on to commit a rape.

I agree that fourteen going on fifteen year olds don't normally set out to murder their girlfriends.  Just as I agree that ten year olds don't normally abduct a toddler with murder in mind.  But just as James Bulger's murderers weren't your normal ten year olds I think the same is applicable to Mitchell when compared to his peer group.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 03:29:43 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mrswah

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Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2021, 03:58:22 PM »
I don't intend to enter the nature of nurture debate because I think what pertains in one situation is quite often contradicted by another.  But whether or not Corrine Mitchell was a single working mother or whether or not she had all day and everyday to devote entirely to her sons I doubt it would have had little or no effect on the way Mitchell turned out.

According to general background information, many of the signs of deviancy were evident as a child and as he approached puberty.  I think in some ways he was highly intelligent as well as charismatic if his circle of girl friends is anything to go by.

I too have had contact with youths male and female of his age group for going on thirty eight years and I can honestly say that in that time I encountered only two who gave me the creeps one of whom went on to commit a rape.

I agree that fourteen going on fifteen year olds don't normally set out to murder their girlfriends.  Just as I agree that ten year olds don't normally abduct a toddler with murder in mind.  But just as James Bulger's murderers weren't your normal ten year olds I think the same is applicable to Mitchell when compared to his peer group.

The case of James Bulger came to mind while I was writing, too. Very unusual , and hard to say if his killers planned to actually commit a murder, or had been influenced by a film/ video game  wherein the injured person got up again-----who knows whether they truly understood what they were doing. But "deviant", certainly. And, there were two of them, to egg each other on.

Luke Mitchell, IF he is guilty, would, of course, have understood the consequences of his actions, and IF he is guilty, IMO, would probably have been under the influence of something that helped cause him lose control. I can't imagine he would have planned to murder his girlfriend in advance. He had shown some disturbing behaviour at school, but some might call this "rebelliousness" rather than "deviancy". As far as I'm aware, he hadn't been excluded from school before the murder. Nor is there any evidence that he was not fond of Jodi---just the opposite, in fact.  Why would he have wanted to kill her?



Offline Paranoid Android

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2021, 04:37:13 PM »
He had shown some disturbing behaviour at school,

Tell us more about this, please.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #144 on: May 01, 2021, 05:04:04 PM »
The case of James Bulger came to mind while I was writing, too. Very unusual , and hard to say if his killers planned to actually commit a murder, or had been influenced by a film/ video game  wherein the injured person got up again-----who knows whether they truly understood what they were doing. But "deviant", certainly. And, there were two of them, to egg each other on.

Luke Mitchell, IF he is guilty, would, of course, have understood the consequences of his actions, and IF he is guilty, IMO, would probably have been under the influence of something that helped cause him lose control. I can't imagine he would have planned to murder his girlfriend in advance. He had shown some disturbing behaviour at school, but some might call this "rebelliousness" rather than "deviancy". As far as I'm aware, he hadn't been excluded from school before the murder. Nor is there any evidence that he was not fond of Jodi---just the opposite, in fact.  Why would he have wanted to kill her?
Why would anyone have wanted to kill her?  Holly reckons it was because she was a Goth, do you think this is the reason?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Brietta

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2021, 05:18:10 PM »
The case of James Bulger came to mind while I was writing, too. Very unusual , and hard to say if his killers planned to actually commit a murder, or had been influenced by a film/ video game  wherein the injured person got up again-----who knows whether they truly understood what they were doing. But "deviant", certainly. And, there were two of them, to egg each other on.

Luke Mitchell, IF he is guilty, would, of course, have understood the consequences of his actions, and IF he is guilty, IMO, would probably have been under the influence of something that helped cause him lose control. I can't imagine he would have planned to murder his girlfriend in advance. He had shown some disturbing behaviour at school, but some might call this "rebelliousness" rather than "deviancy". As far as I'm aware, he hadn't been excluded from school before the murder. Nor is there any evidence that he was not fond of Jodi---just the opposite, in fact.  Why would he have wanted to kill her?

I am content that the Crown got it right as far as Mitchell was concerned.  I think those who are aware of all that passed before the court recognise that he is a very dangerous individual despite his tender years.

For example; I think the sentence imposed on him was pretty draconian if not unprecedented; the judge had to have a valid reason for that and I believe that despite an appeal lodged against the undoubted severity of it there had likewise to be a sound reason behind its failure too.

I think there is a lot which goes on in a courtroom which might be a bit of a mystery to those who haven't sat through days of evidence.
I was cited for jury service (called twice) and I was very alert to the proceedings. 

I took in the demeanour of the two defendants particularly their reaction to the evidence being given.  I knew nothing about the two guys nor did I know anything about any of the witnesses, but just observation and listening to the evidence as it was presented gave me the firm impression the two defendants were as guilty as sin.

As it turned out they changed their plea to guilty thus depriving me of my twelve angry men moment.  But the point I am making is that in a jury trial the jury members are forming opinion based on everything going on around them.

Just as I formed a negative reaction to my two miscreants (who certainly were not being accused of murder), I wonder what sort of impression Mitchell might have made on the jury at his trial as he sat in the dock.

I think he would have been scrutinised intensely given the nature of the accusation against him.

For example when certain images were projected during the trial his reaction or lack of might have informed the opinion of the jury members despite the fact he did not take the stand.

The nature of the crime and the judge's harsh sentencing certainly in my opinion illustrate how dangerous an individual Mitchell was considered to be.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mrswah

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Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2021, 05:39:30 PM »
Why would anyone have wanted to kill her?  Holly reckons it was because she was a Goth, do you think this is the reason?

No, I don't !  She wasn't really a Goth anyway, and neither was Luke. They just adopted some aspects, as many young people do-----IMO.

I suspect that, if Luke killed her, he did it while he was high on drugs.

If someone else killed her, it was, IMO, either because she knew something that the killer didn't want revealed, or it was a murder by a random  person with a serious psychopathic disorder.

Just my opinion, though.

Offline mrswah

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Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2021, 05:42:22 PM »
Tell us more about this, please.

Apparently, he had been caught fighting(while in primary school) and had also written some disturbing "Satanist" stuff on his schoolbooks. He had, apparently, been referred to an educational psychologist, but refused to cooperate.

Can't recall where I read this, I'm afraid, but it's very much "out there".

Offline mrswah

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Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2021, 05:43:48 PM »
I am content that the Crown got it right as far as Mitchell was concerned.  I think those who are aware of all that passed before the court recognise that he is a very dangerous individual despite his tender years.

For example; I think the sentence imposed on him was pretty draconian if not unprecedented; the judge had to have a valid reason for that and I believe that despite an appeal lodged against the undoubted severity of it there had likewise to be a sound reason behind its failure too.

I think there is a lot which goes on in a courtroom which might be a bit of a mystery to those who haven't sat through days of evidence.
I was cited for jury service (called twice) and I was very alert to the proceedings. 

I took in the demeanour of the two defendants particularly their reaction to the evidence being given.  I knew nothing about the two guys nor did I know anything about any of the witnesses, but just observation and listening to the evidence as it was presented gave me the firm impression the two defendants were as guilty as sin.

As it turned out they changed their plea to guilty thus depriving me of my twelve angry men moment.  But the point I am making is that in a jury trial the jury members are forming opinion based on everything going on around them.

Just as I formed a negative reaction to my two miscreants (who certainly were not being accused of murder), I wonder what sort of impression Mitchell might have made on the jury at his trial as he sat in the dock.

I think he would have been scrutinised intensely given the nature of the accusation against him.

For example when certain images were projected during the trial his reaction or lack of might have informed the opinion of the jury members despite the fact he did not take the stand.

The nature of the crime and the judge's harsh sentencing certainly in my opinion illustrate how dangerous an individual Mitchell was considered to be.

I'm sure some jurors take the proceedings far more seriously than do others!

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: What Was The Motive?
« Reply #149 on: May 01, 2021, 06:04:18 PM »
Apparently, he had been caught fighting(while in primary school) and had also written some disturbing "Satanist" stuff on his schoolbooks. He had, apparently, been referred to an educational psychologist, but refused to cooperate.

Can't recall where I read this, I'm afraid, but it's very much "out there".

It's certainly the case that LM attacked my friend's son at school - I mentioned it on here, but it was dismissed as gossip and hearsay, of course.