Author Topic: The less talked about sighting on Newbattle Road by M O'Sullivan & D Hamilton...  (Read 100663 times)

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Offline faithlilly

From people over time that I have read on these forums. Stemming from their 'take' on Ms Leans 'take' of the information she holds. Of the information she has and adds to. Of comments of late - "there was five of them, cotter was the lookout" - four being SK, JF,GD and this girls brother - Cotter being JaF. - Scandalous, can we blame them? - And of the condom 'wi Jodies dna aw over the ootside o it' and "knock knock ya beastie b........s" These people adding up Ms Leans wrongful information, her bad stitching , then these others stitching even more - that old saying of 'don't shoot the messenger' - really? She is after all, just putting the information out there?

You said you had read forums. Gordo and incest. - Only recently talking of Jodi's brother getting sent after her? People with some sense do ask the correct questions - the reality of Jodi being followed by a family member and going unnoticed - Ms Lean has been out for this girls family for years has she not?, on the basis of what exactly? Is it personal, due to him arriving at her door one day - whilst Mr Middleton was hiding behind it? - some form of twisted revenge? For it is certainly not down to evidence. One can not scrub the evidence (as much as she feels the SCCRC should have, with her MK's and parkas) against LM by invention of others. And it is invention - innuendo and very much a modern day witch hunt. - It really does make one think - of why? And of LM on that path that evening. Does he blame this girls family for not having something to scent, with them? 

Does LM blame Jodi? for causing his actions that day? - is he out to get her family for this? Using whatever puppets he can - namely Ms Lean and his mother and all else who readily jump on board. Certainly something highly suspect - and it is not these others.

And the allegations of an inappropriate relationship between Luke and Corrine?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Ah, forums.  Yes, I've read all sorts on forums, and yes, I've come across Gordo.  In your previous post, you gave the impression that SL had accused people of incest and abuse in her books. She would probably have been sued for libel if she had done this. People get away with it on forums, because, for the most part, nobody knows who anyone else is. They do like to accuse each other of being certain people, of course.

I was reading a forum the other day, actually. One or two of the most unlikely people used to think Luke was innocent------------------, and, in addition, did not speak against Sandra Lean.   Interesting, reading forums!

Absolutely not - my post did not say or imply that at all - it was clear, that I was speaking about people making these claims upon taking on board Ms Leans information. That the way in which the information is given across leads into horrendous interpretation of it. - which is exactly the point , is it not? - And of these means being undignified to what had actually happened to Jodi Jones.

Of another discussion. That appeared to go of for some time. Could not quite grasp the beginning of the arms and legs - which stemmed from an ID of this stocky man some 9 weeks after Jodi's death. From a group of people whom all looked the same. The author pushing their information to the extreme, without actually saying the words. This type of manipulation that gave cause to - rightly so, of this girls funeral, which was of course 9 weeks after her death, and of a group of males dressed the same - black. - Where she makes sure those dots are joined correctly without spitting the actual words out. That fine line of liable. - To of course people then stating he was seen carrying this girls coffin, just in-case people were having difficulty joining the dots. Therefore it had to be someone very close to Jodi, if they were carrying her coffin. As it appeared some were having a little difficulty in pin pointing who the male could be?.


To which I pointed out, that any pictures I came across where of the people from the undertakers - as they were the ones carrying the coffin and not Jodi's family. To which Ms Lean then decided to make an appearance - To state clearly that she had never actually mentioned carrying the coffin? - But it was evident that this information, given behind closed doors had been blurted out, that it was hush hush, and that Ms Lean was trying to fix this.  - that this witness who ID the stocky man had yet again been wrong. It was a false trail. To which one must use in the proper context in the first instance - The appeal for him, was on the basis of someone who may have seen Jodi as were the boys on the bike, as was the girl with the pushchair. Looking to locate, for further information and elimination if need be. - again an area of being led down that proverbial garden path. Where these highly trained professionals - had every piece of information on this. - But one needs something to distract away from LM, do they not? 


It is using this type of tactic to disperse doubt, to distract away from yet again from LM. As with the bike at the V. The minute truthful part, as with above - of someone making a statement/given information - is used which was demonstrably wrong. The witness was someone from Basically Tool Hire. That they had given an indication of where on this path the bike may have been and "close to" this V was used. Whilst driving on the "Beeches". - morphed into a witness stating they saw this bike up against the wall at this V with no boys in sight. - Now Ms Lean knows this is impossible to see, from where they were and so forth - but due to having this small piece of information, the minute truthful part - then one can use this to push it across as something more sinister - to leave the reader thinking one thing only. -That this bike had been seen at this V, with no boys in sight - which is nonsense. Thus why I highlighted the irony in using this whilst on the other hand - Ms Lean states that the V is not easy to see, unless one knows what they are looking for? Whilst actually being on this very path itself - far less in a car, in a national speed limit zone - looking across an expansive field. Hundreds of yards away. - Where it is physically impossible to see this V. Not only at the distance, but behind the trees that are on the field side of this path - sheltering this very V. - it's ok thought is it not - these boys were liars anyway? easy meat to prey on?? As DF used the same tactic in trying to trip them up - by asking them why their bike was spotted at a stand still close to this V "I dunno" replied the rather dim JF. These boys did not, ever admit to their bike being riderless at any point  unless they were pushing it, having a rest.They drove up and down this path and were home by 5.30pm. Barley on RDP and LP for around 20mins.

Quote
After the boys on the moped passed through the tool hire place, an employee there told police that s/he spotted the bike parked against the V break (with no people in sight) on the witness's drive home.

Offline Nicholas

And the allegations of an inappropriate relationship between Luke and Corrine?

What do you mean by ‘inappropriate’?

There certainly appeared to be boundary issues

Wasn’t it claimed Corinne turned up at the prison in a cropped top - exposing her mid drift ?

I’d call that behaviour ‘inappropriate’ especially for an all male prison
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Ah, forums.  Yes, I've read all sorts on forums, and yes, I've come across Gordo.  In your previous post, you gave the impression that SL had accused people of incest and abuse in her books. She would probably have been sued for libel if she had done this. People get away with it on forums, because, for the most part, nobody knows who anyone else is. They do like to accuse each other of being certain people, of course.

I was reading a forum the other day, actually. One or two of the most unlikely people used to think Luke was innocent------------------, and, in addition, did not speak against Sandra Lean.   Interesting, reading forums!

I don’t suppose you saw the photos of Billy Middleton when he dyed his hair all different colours in an alleged attempt to raise money for charity ?

We are still none the wiser as to where the money raised went
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Of another discussion. That appeared to go of for some time. Could not quite grasp the beginning of the arms and legs - which stemmed from an ID of this stocky man some 9 weeks after Jodi's death. From a group of people whom all looked the same. The author pushing their information to the extreme, without actually saying the words. This type of manipulation that gave cause to - rightly so, of this girls funeral, which was of course 9 weeks after her death, and of a group of males dressed the same - black. - Where she makes sure those dots are joined correctly without spitting the actual words out. That fine line of liable. - To of course people then stating he was seen carrying this girls coffin, just in-case people were having difficulty joining the dots. Therefore it had to be someone very close to Jodi, if they were carrying her coffin. As it appeared some were having a little difficulty in pin pointing who the male could be?.


To which I pointed out, that any pictures I came across where of the people from the undertakers - as they were the ones carrying the coffin and not Jodi's family. To which Ms Lean then decided to make an appearance - To state clearly that she had never actually mentioned carrying the coffin? - But it was evident that this information, given behind closed doors had been blurted out, that it was hush hush, and that Ms Lean was trying to fix this.  - that this witness who ID the stocky man had yet again been wrong. It was a false trail.

Snide
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 06:55:47 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

It is using this type of tactic to disperse doubt, to distract away from yet again from LM.

and to distract away from Sandra Lean


Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

It is using this type of tactic to disperse doubt, to distract away from yet again from LM. As with the bike at the V. The minute truthful part, as with above - of someone making a statement/given information - is used which was demonstrably wrong. The witness was someone from Basically Tool Hire. That they had given an indication of where on this path the bike may have been and "close to" this V was used. Whilst driving on the "Beeches". - morphed into a witness stating they saw this bike up against the wall at this V with no boys in sight. - Now Ms Lean knows this is impossible to see, from where they were and so forth - but due to having this small piece of information, the minute truthful part - then one can use this to push it across as something more sinister - to leave the reader thinking one thing only. -That this bike had been seen at this V, with no boys in sight - which is nonsense.

I had conversations with Sandra Lean about Simon Hall’s case papers and of his innocence fraud campaign - following his suicide and spoke of how the witness statements can be and are manipulated to give an air of plausible deniability

I fell for it myself before I realised I’d been duped

As did Sandra Lean ⬇️

1st Jan 2011 - Sandra Lean - Conviction Upheld
“This decision is an affront to justice. The CPS knows that there was another burglary that evening in Capel. They know that the SOCOs went directly from  that crime scene to the murder scene. They know that there was DNA on the knife that did not belong to Simon, that the original fibre investigation concluded no match for the fibres, and that the jury was misled into believing that the knife that was used to kill Mrs Albert must have come from an opened drawer in her own kitchen.
They also know that another man confessed to this murder. So why do they insist on keeping an innocent man in prison, and refusing to acknowledge the existence of this other evidence? What can possibly be gained by allowing the real perpetrators to remain free and unpunished?
We will not rest until the whole truth of this case has been made public, and that includes the collusion and cover-up which has allowed this gross miscarriage of justice to persist for so long, and which, sadly, in light of today’s decision, will be allowed to continue.
We will never give up the fight for justice for Simon. The truth will come out – all of it. The DPP himself said that without the fibre evidence, there was no case. The fibre evidence has now been discredited – why is Simon to remain in prison for another man’s crime?
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “This is a dark day for British Justice. This decision tells us that the justice system in this country would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in prison for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit, “We got it wrong.” Any other industry behaving in this way would be closed down – the justice industry is answerable to no-one. The fight for Simon Hall’s freedom goes on.”

« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 07:23:59 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Predictive and indicative response yet again - However, two things here. These comments around the handling of the crime scene by this non erecting of a tent is on the basis of preserving evidence. Introducing indignity into leaving this girl uncovered for hours are cheap shots towards the police. Nothing more. Used to make people gasp. Jodi was in a woodland, not in some public thoroughfare with eyes everywhere. She was not exposed to anyone. Other than her poor family and those few people who had to witness what LM had done to her. If we are talking loss of evidence - this is fine, but not bringing in dignity to score points.

Not cheap shots, absolutely relevant and, yes, it should make people gasp. Yes, Jodi was in a woodland, lying on, with the rain that night, a bed of mud....for hours. What a terrible way to treat the body of a young girl who had been robbed of everything but a scintilla of dignity. BTW what was the reason for not erecting a tent? 

And they are cheap shots -  In one hand making Jodi the person she was to use against the police and in the other hand talking of "rolling the body". These are your words, and Ms Leans - using them in these false claims of undignified handling by the police - to disperse disgust upon them - the disgust is in the people using them. And utterly ironic. For this author and those who take on board what she says and repeats - by means of manipulation to paint this murder into something it was not. For her to sit back - say "make of that what you will" - Watch the discussion around it - and not to intervene, not to correct - when people are discussing rape and all else. For that is exactly what people are making of her information - and it is wrong. And if you defend it - then ?.   

Is it just a lack of imagination or laziness that causes you to lump everyone who believe Luke is innocent together?

And this nonsense of spite and all else - more cheap tactics. Why? because one is not bowled over and in love with all Ms Lean does? I will repeat again, I make no bones over Ms Lean. - had some spats with her over on another forum, pushed a few buttons to get the answers I was seeking, worked a treat. I find what she has done/does completely false - and overtly ironic. Considering the person/people she is defending. She has told blatant lies, she has then tried to pass the buck onto others - namely JF of all people? - more irony. Blame the liar for her own lies? - When I picked her up on this, guess what? - she told me she had another source for her lies? As I had pointed out to her the irony of believing the very person she makes heaps of assumptions upon, due to lies?  - think we call it  'worming' out of being caught. She swiftly removed those comments because she breached herself into troubled waters - by claiming it was in JF's statement. oops! Another lie?

I’m afraid I find the way you present information on this case every bit as opaque as Dr Lean. You both make claims you fail to provide evidence for. You really are just different sides of the same coin.

Revolving doors - lies to cover up lies and more needed to keep on covering. -some of her followers, ironically use "truth" quotes - Is that why we have LM's statements being morphed to match others? - completely transformed.

They did not erect a tent. Neither you nor anyone else know the correct context and circumstances around this. We all know and expect this basic protocol - But we do not know the ins and outs of this particular case, reasons a s to why. - What we do know is the repetitive assumption from that missing 99% in this area.

If you don’t know the context or circumstances of the non- erection of a tent then there is every chance it could well have been down to incompetence. In fact the moving of the body and bundling up of Jodi’s clothes suggests incompetence was the most likely explanation.


« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 12:30:23 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Those first statements, denied on oath by the protagonists, of Luke not ‘just going over the wall’, but of being lead there by his dog. Of SK’s observation of Luke’s dog ‘ pulling Luke to the wall’, suggesting that he was some way away from it. Of those lies under oath being the cornerstone of the Crown’s case. What a tawdry deception against a child.

 “Luke’s dog started jumping about at the wall. Luke then climbed over the wall and started searching about”

That was the truth, wasn’t it.. not this :

 “ They testified that Luke Mitchell walked straight to the v-shaped gap in the wall bordering the Roan's Dyke path, behind which Jodi's body was discovered.”

Never that.

Of Mr Turnbull telling the jury that if the family's account was consistent with Luke knowing about the body and that if they were right then it meant that he was the killer.

But it wasn’t right, was it? It wasn’t consistent, was it?

 ‘Steven Kelly describes Luke’s dog pulling Luke to the wall and jumping up just below a v shaped break in the wall.’

That’s what Luke had also said, wasn’t it? That the dog had pulled him to the wall and started jumping just below the v. That’s consistent...that matched the first statements of those who lied under oath.

That cornerstone built on sand.

And that other cornerstone, the Andrina Bryson sighting. What of it ?

Certainly a very truthful witness, as most were at the beginning, and certainly sure of her actions in those first statements.

Of her children arriving home from school and immediately bundling them into the car for a trip to the supermarket at 4.05. Of the arrival of that supermarket at 4.15 and checkout at 4.45. Of her arrival in Easthouses at around 5.10 and, as she admitted later that she didn’t know Easthouses well, the search for the house for sale. Of having a quick look at the house and making her way back home. Of seeing the young couple at the entrance to the Roan’s Dyke path at 5.45 and finally her arrival home at around 5.50...gauging this by a phone call from her husband.

Of her categorical repudiation that the youth she saw had been wearing a parka. ‘Most like it ‘ was as far as she’d admit and even then that she’d pointed out the differences to the police at the time.

And of the bungled identification which broke all the rules.

Of course there was the bank statement bearing a different time than than that of Andrina’s supermarket receipt, held aloft by the prosecution like the correct answers to some confusing puzzle, but that raised more questions than it ever answered. Working backwards from Andrina’s phone call from her husband, logged at 6.17, to her departure from her house at 4.05 there was a huge hole of 45 minutes unaccounted for if the sighting of the couple was as early as the prosecution was desperate to suggest. Unfortunately an explanation for it’s absence was never sought, or given, and the chance was forfeited to provide an answer for the huge hole at the heart of the prosecution’s narrative.

Of course Andrina did try to redeem if not herself then certainly those who had put her in this terrible position.

 “Did she see the youth she’d seen that day in court” she was asked.

She didn’t.

Of course some will argue that by the time Andrina saw Luke in court he had filled out, his hair was different but this was also true if Luke was the youth seen by Lorraine Fleming and Rosemary Walsh yet they identified him in court when, arguably, they had seen less of his face.

Another cornerstone imperceptibly shifts.

Which couple did Andrina B see if you are claiming it wasn’t Luke and Jodi?

And did any couple ever come forward?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

Which couple did Andrina B see if you are claiming it wasn’t Luke and Jodi?

And did any couple ever come forward?

The first the public knew of Andrina Bryson’s sighting was when she gave evidence in court. There was no public appeal for the couple to come forward as there was with Stocky Man and the blonde mother pushing a pram and who would remember so many months after the event what exactly they were doing at that time on that day?

The reason why the police all but ignored AB’s sighting for weeks after the murder? The logical reason is the timings in her first statements were too late for the TOD the police had fixed on....a time when Luke had no one but his family as his alibi. If the sighting was Jodi and Luke , and AB’s original timings were correct, as they most certainly were,  Luke would have to have been in two places at once, at the Easthouses entrance to RDP and being seen on the Newbattle Road by his friends. He had a cast iron alibi.

Weeks into the case there was nothing to implicate Luke in the murder. There was no sightings of Luke near RDP at the time of the murder and the police had hung their entire case on there being DNA evidence against Luke but when none was found a different direction had to be taken.

I do feel sorry for AB. She gave her evidence in good faith but that she was manipulated into testifying to timings other than those she originally gave is not surprising. She knew that Luke couldn’t have been the youth she saw, the timings were all wrong, and by refusing to identify Luke in the dock she did all she possibly could to rectify the situation.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

The first the public knew of Andrina Bryson’s sighting was when she gave evidence in court. There was no public appeal for the couple to come forward

And?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Which couple did Andrina B see if you are claiming it wasn’t Luke and Jodi?

And did any couple ever come forward?

18 years and no couple has come forward to say they may have been the couple she saw?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Weeks into the case there was nothing to implicate Luke in the murder.

Publish his police witness statements so we can all judge whether that’s true or not
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Brietta

And?

On hearing of Jodi's murder Andrina Bryson volunteered her sighting of a young couple neither of whom were known to her, in a witness statement which was devoid of knowledge of anything of which we have since become so familiar.

She was the first independent witness.  She knew nothing more than what she had seen.
Using her initiative and her civic duty Ms Bryson imparted information to the police which might have been relevant to the investigation or it might not have been.

In the event - her information was crucial in confirming the time line.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

On hearing of Jodi's murder Andrina Bryson volunteered her sighting of a young couple neither of whom were known to her, in a witness statement which was devoid of knowledge of anything of which we have since become so familiar.

She was the first independent witness.  She knew nothing more than what she had seen.
Using her initiative and her civic duty Ms Bryson imparted information to the police which might have been relevant to the investigation or it might not have been.

In the event - her information was crucial in confirming the time line.

No it wasn’t. Her statements, plural, were crucial in confirming exactly the opposite. How does a sighting at 5.45 confirm a timeline where the murder, allegedly, took place at 5.15?

She confirmed in court that the youth she saw was not wearing a parka, as the police claimed, and, when push came to shove, that she couldn’t identify Luke in court as the youth she’d seen.

I’m not sure why you, and others, continue to believe absolute falsehoods in teeth of all the available evidence.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?