CB has been declared ‘arguido’ by the PJ.

[The General]

When CB was extradited from Italy he can only be tried for crimes listed on the warrant... Or crimes committed after.
As this crime was before the extradition they have to get permission from the Italians. It's to stop countries extraditing for one crime and then charging for others

Like Germany?

[Mr Gray]

If he could he would be charged by now, no question.
The irony here is that, hopefully, the PJ will get to ask him first because HCW was wracked with uncertainty and didn't want to reveal his hand in some extraordinary game of brinksmanship. It failed.

No doubt they would come up against the same dead end. Let us be in no doubt, the BKA would have thrown inordinate resources at establishing CB's whereabouts with the data they had and the information gathered since. They're clearly no further forward despite the best efforts of some of the globe's finest investigative skills at their disposal.
Therefore, despite Davie's assertion that this in and of itself is circumstantial evidence, it's fundamental that they do place him at the scene, as being unable to do this carries much more weight than the residual element of no alibi being lodged.

Fundamental to place him at the scene... No

[The General]

Fundamental to place him at the scene... No

OK, I'll rephrase, Gray; beneficial.
Which would HCW rather have, no alibi proffered, which could be construed as evasion therefore circumstantial evidence in and of itself, or an established corroborated CB at the scene at the time?
Which would carry the more weight in the eyes of our 3 hypothetical judges?

[Mr Gray]

OK, I'll rephrase, Gray; beneficial.
Which would HCW rather have, no alibi proffered, which could be construed as evasion therefore circumstantial evidence in and of itself, or an established corroborated CB at the scene at the time?
Which would carry the more weight in the eyes of our 3 hypothetical judges?

still not fundamental...everything depends on what other evidence Wolters has.

Proof of his presence at the Ocean club would not be proof of his involvement..its the sum of all the evidence taht matters

[The General]

still not fundamental...everything depends on what other evidence Wolters has.

Proof of his presence at the Ocean club would not be proof of his involvement..its the sum of all the evidence taht matters

You must remember the clamour with HCW trying to place him at the scene; you know, the phone caller - 'where are you?'. The insistence that he was literally outside, no seriously, outside....but we need to place him there.

I'm volte facing....it's fundamental. If he had that I'd basically cave and say it was 'im guv uw dunnit. If he gets that, he gets pressure, real pressure during questioning. All other bits fall in to place. Fundamental. You're thinking trial, I'm thinking investigation.

[Mr Gray]

You must remember the clamour with HCW trying to place him at the scene; you know, the phone caller - 'where are you?'. The insistence that he was literally outside, no seriously, outside....but we need to place him there.

I'm volte facing....it's fundamental. If he had that I'd basically cave and say it was 'im guv uw dunnit. If he gets that, he gets pressure, real pressure during questioning. All other bits fall in to place. Fundamental. You're thinking trial, I'm thinking investigation.

His presence outside wouldnt prove anything...he lived in Luz

[jassi]

Like Germany?

Yes, Brueckner appealed about the validity of his trial on those grounds, but lost.
With that precedent why would Germany need to go through the procedure again ?

[The General]

His presence outside wouldnt prove anything...he lived in Luz

Perhaps my phraseology was misconstrued - if HCW had corroboration that he was outside the apartment of 5a at 10pm, he then uses that information, and its source, to hammer CB around the head. It becomes a dead loss at some point and he'd be getting advised to provide an alibi, which he won't be able to verify. There's your weight and that's just a start.

[The General]

Yes, Brueckner appealed about the validity of his trial on those grounds, but lost.
With that precedent why would Germany need to go through the procedure again ?

I think all bets are off once he's been charged and processed. His last place of criminality is now Germany.
I don't think Italy have any skin in this game now, and why would they want it?
It should be a straight extradition process, but Germany don't like doing that, not one bit, particularly if HCW had the rug pulled from under him by the PJ. That's gonna sting that is.

[Mr Gray]

I think all bets are off once he's been charged and processed. His last place of criminality is now Germany.
I don't think Italy have any skin in this game now, and why would they want it?
It should be a straight extradition process, but Germany don't like doing that, not one bit, particularly if HCW had the rug pulled from under him by the PJ. That's gonna sting that is.

italy are still involved....am I the only one who understands why

[The General]

italy are still involved....am I the only one who understands why

No, you and Italy. There's probably a couple or three who will no doubt concur with you, Gray, irrespective of whether they do or not.

[misty]

italy are still involved....am I the only one who understands why

No, you're not. Italy are involved because they extradited Brueckner to Germany under an EAW. The Speciality clause means that Germany has to get permission to charge CB with any offences which occurred prior to his surrender which were not mentioned on the executed EAW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant

[The General]

No, you're not. Italy are involved because they extradited Brueckner to Germany under an EAW. The Speciality clause means that Germany has to get permission to charge CB with any offences which occurred prior to his surrender which were not mentioned on the executed EAW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant

I think 'prosecute' is the key term here. Portugal want to 'investigate', if we use the spirit and letter of arguido status. Portugal would have to declare an intention to prosecute post an investigation being concluded.
Tell me I'm wrong. No seriously, tell me I'm wrong and show me. (because I speed read it and CBA to read that entire thing).

[G-Unit]

No, you're not. Italy are involved because they extradited Brueckner to Germany under an EAW. The Speciality clause means that Germany has to get permission to charge CB with any offences which occurred prior to his surrender which were not mentioned on the executed EAW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant

Even though there's now no need for a EAW?

[The General]

Even though there's now no need for a EAW?

Hmmm...well this is awks.
I can hear Billie Jean again, guys......do do do do do do do do.....