Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!

[Anna]

But I think I'm right in claiming that the Smith's description was given before Tanner's description was publicised.

Was it not in her first statement?

[faithlilly]

Was it not in her first statement?

But it wasn't made public so the Smith's description and her's are totally independent, bringing us back to the anomaly of both children ( which are unconnected according to SY ) having no socks/shoes/slippers or coat/blanket.

[Anna]

But it wasn't made public so the Smith's description and her's are totally independent, bringing us back to the anomaly of both children ( which are unconnected according to SY ) having no socks/shoes/slippers or coat/blanket.

If it was the same person that was seen by JT and Smiths, we have to wonder what happened to the missing, 30minutes.
Do you know, Faith, whether the Smiths report and description, was before or after the publicised description?

 It is a difficult one to work out, but it is very unlikely, that two barefooted, uncovered children were being carried on that night at a similar time.

[pathfinder73]

The lane is an alleyway.

In my post above I have given several reasons based on FACTS why he didn't see her.  Additional to those is the fact that this amorphous shape dressed in dark colours in a dimly lit spot, did not even register.

Do a reconstruction and film it then and prove me wrong Get the expert to do another one like his window pillow theory reconstruction. We would all love to see it 

[Wonderfulspam]

If it was the same person that was seen by JT and Smiths, we have to wonder what happened to the missing, 30minutes.
Do you know, Faith, whether the Smiths report and description, was before or after the publicised description?

 It is a difficult one to work out, but it is very unlikely, that two barefooted, uncovered children were being carried on that night at a similar time.

He had a haircut in the missing 30 mins.

[pathfinder73]

i)  where did she say that she would have said something to Gerry about the football?  Please show me where.  Somewhere it was intimated that she didn't care for Gerry really IIRC.  Why would she interrupt a private conversation?

ii)  why would she turn down an unlit alleyway?  As Anna says, alleyways are dangerous for women even in the daylight.  I was accosted in an alleyway as a teenager.  He tried to grab me, but I managed to avoid him.  I was a keen racing cyclist, but it was up a steepish hill in this alleyway.  Even so I was able to swerve around him and get away.

But I have allso had a man try and pull me into a car in a side road in broad daylight.  Fortunately I was pretty fit and put up a good fight.  Got away.

Me, I am paranoid about quiet places, especially after dark if a strange man is behind / near me.

No way would I go down an unlit alleyway and i doubt Jane would either.

4078    “And can you remember, as you past them or thought to acknowledge them, then you noticed they were deep in conversation, can you remember which angle you saw them from, which way they were facing?”

Reply    “No, I, phew, again, I would probably guess Gerry’s back was more towards me, because I would have thought if I’d have seen him I would have definitely probably stopped and said ‘Oh you’re in trouble, you’ve been long, we think you’ve been watching the footy’, you know, but.  Because I think that’s almost when I went to acknowledge them, that’s almost what went through my head, you know, is to sort of give a bit of abuse about the fact he’d been so long, but.  So I would imagine his, maybe his back was to me, but.  And, again, in that way, that would make more sense, because I don’t know Jez, so it’s not like I would have gone ‘Oh hi Jez’, you know, that way, so.  Yeah, I, I honestly, I can’t remember now which way they were.  But I do, I stand by the fact I’m sure they were nearer than right over here”.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Gerry's back was towards Jane she thinks. Gerry's back was towards the gate/hedge according to Jez.

I honestly, I can’t remember now which way they were. (JT)

And she didn't hear Gerry's voice which is unmistakable  &%+((£

4078    “Okay.  And did you hear what they were saying?”
Reply    “No.  No, not really.  Not that I can remember”.

Passing within a few feet. I don't think so!

[Alfred R Jones]

If it was the same person that was seen by JT and Smiths, we have to wonder what happened to the missing, 30minutes.
Do you know, Faith, whether the Smiths report and description, was before or after the publicised description?

 It is a difficult one to work out, but it is very unlikely, that two barefooted, uncovered children were being carried on that night at a similar time.

What you're forgetting is that Faithlilly doesn't believe JT ever saw a man carrying a child and that she just said she did, under orders from Gerry.

[Anna]

What you're forgetting is that Faithlilly doesn't believe JT ever saw a man carrying a child and that she just said she did, under orders from Gerry.

I have not forgotten, Alfred, that some believe, that it was all a lie, which I said ,here-

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.msg217030#msg217030

[Alfred R Jones]

I have not forgotten, Alfred, that some believe, that it was all a lie, which I said ,here-

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.msg217030#msg217030

Fair enough - it's just that as far as Faithlilly is concerned there were no intervening 30 minutes between the two sightings.

[sadie]

i)  where did she say that she would have said something to Gerry about the football? Please show me where.  Somewhere it was intimated that she didn't care for Gerry really IIRC.  Why would she interrupt a private conversation?

Thank you Spam. I missed that. 

4078    “And can you remember, as you past them or thought to acknowledge them, then you noticed they were deep in conversation, can you remember which angle you saw them from, which way they were facing?”

Reply    “No, I, phew, again, I would probably guess Gerry’s back was more towards me, because I would have thought if I’d have seen him I would have definitely probably stopped and said ‘Oh you’re in trouble, you’ve been long, we think you’ve been watching the footy’, you know, but.  Because I think that’s almost when I went to acknowledge them, that’s almost what went through my head, you know, is to sort of give a bit of abuse about the fact he’d been so long, but.  So I would imagine his, maybe his back was to me, but.  And, again, in that way, that would make more sense, because I don’t know Jez, so it’s not like I would have gone ‘Oh hi Jez’, you know, that way, so.  Yeah, I, I honestly, I can’t remember now which way they were.  But I do, I stand by the fact I’m sure they were nearer than right over here”.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Gerry's back was towards Jane she thinks. Gerry's back was towards the gate/hedge according to Jez.

I honestly, I can’t remember now which way they were. (JT)

So we can deduct that Gerrys back was absolutely towards her, which is what I thought.

[sadie]

Now excuse me.  I have to get on with real life

[faithlilly]

If it was the same person that was seen by JT and Smiths, we have to wonder what happened to the missing, 30minutes.
Do you know, Faith, whether the Smiths report and description, was before or after the publicised description?

 It is a difficult one to work out, but it is very unlikely, that two barefooted, uncovered children were being carried on that night at a similar time.

Not according to SY Anna.

[pathfinder73]

Thank you Spam. I missed that. 


So we can deduct that Gerrys back was absolutely towards her, which is what I thought.

I posted that football comment in response to you saying I'm making shit up. No Jez should know where Gerry was as he was talking to him. The lane/pathway route is a possible theory so Jane didn't have to pass them. She could've seen the man crossing when she left the entrance.

[Anna]

Dates:-

Date: 2007-05-04
Time: 11.30
Place: This Police Department
Responsible Officer: Inspector João Carvalho

Name: Jane Michelle Tanner
Exerpt:-

(**) Concerning the child, who seemed to be asleep, she only saw the legs. The child seemed to be older than a baby. The child was barefoot, dressed in cotton light-coloured pyjamas (possibly pink or white) She is not sure, but has the feeling that she saw a design on the pyjamas like flowers, but is not certain about it.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post412.html#p412

Appeal 25/5 by PJ
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html
(probably also on news)


26/5/ smith statement
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post535.html#p535


May 27, 2007
A friend of Madeleine's parents saw girl being carried away Timesonline
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

[pathfinder73]

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.
This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.
Asked about the way the members of the group were dressed up in that night, she only remembers that Fiona was wearing a green blouse, that Gerry was wearing a dark shirt and the husband of Fiona wearing clear pants, beige she thinks.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

According to that statement it would probably mean she saw him from inside the car park passing the car park entrance.

walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.