Author Topic: The tracker dogs  (Read 135997 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #255 on: September 11, 2016, 02:16:49 AM »
On the basis that that is how it happened.  You have not shown me quotes that suggest otherwise.  Read up the dog handlers statements.

This is a pretty comprehensive report  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm but it doesn't explain how they established Madeleine's scent.
The words towel, clothes or blanket are absent from this report.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:33:31 PM by John »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #256 on: September 11, 2016, 03:00:36 AM »
iT IS CLEAR THE FIRST TWO Tracker dogs got the blanket to sniff for Madeleine's scent and followed a very similar trail to what was found the next day.http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html
"Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão"
They too headed to the small reception area.
Quote
he route initially taken was from the front entrance door to the passageway between Blocks 4 and 5, along the corridor and then along the passage that leads past the entrance to the small reception to the resort's swimming pool.
OK it doesn't say they stopped at the door of the reception on the first night."then along the passage that leads past the entrance to the small reception what other meaning could that have?   "then along the pathway that leads to the entrance to the secondary reception".  Was that possible?  Did the McCanns ever get this blanket back?

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 09:11:23 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #257 on: September 11, 2016, 06:53:58 AM »
Was that the same blanket as is seen in the photos of Madeleine's bed?   So any future photos of her bed would not have had a blanket on them, or did she have a second blanket?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #258 on: September 11, 2016, 07:50:02 AM »
iT IS CLEAR THE FIRST TWO Tracker dogs got the blanket to sniff for Madeleine's scent and followed a very similar trail to what was found the next day.http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html
"Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão"
They too headed to the small reception area.  OK it doesn't say they stopped at the door of the reception on the first night."then along the passage that leads past the entrance to the small reception what other meaning could that have?   "then along the pathway that leads past the entrance to the secondary reception".  Was that possible?  Did the MacCanns ever get this blanket back?

Well done you! I think you've solved the riddle. That route was followed by dogs three times. The first dogs were Kit and Numi; German Shepherd patrol dogs from Portimao, although one of them [Numi] had some training in tracking. They got the pink blanket at 02.30 on 4th. The one with some tracking training [Numi] took the route we're discussing.

Some of the dogs from Queluz [Lisbon] arrived at 8am on 4th and began searching. They didn't sniff anything, they were search and rescue air sniffing dogs. Another request was made to Queluz and the tracking dogs arrived at 11pm on 4th and were given a towel. They both followed the route, and repeated the exercise again a few days later with the same result.

So both the blanket and the towel were used. When Kate mentions the blanket she's referring to 2.30am search on 4th. The 11pm search was done using the towel; we don't know who gave that to the searchers.

3rd/4th
At 00.40, given the complexity of the situation that seemed to surround the disappearance, the GNR post commander requested reinforcements from two sniffer dog teams from the Portimao territorial group to help in the searches, considering the possibility that the girl could have left the apartment on foot and could be somewhere not very far from the OC resort.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.ht

After arriving at the GNR post with his colleagues Morais and two dogs (Numi and Kit), German Shepherd dogs, which made up the search team, they immediately left for P da L. They arrived at about 02h30.

When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCanns' apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the McCann couple. They just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed.

They began searching with the dogs from the main entrance to the apartment, having given the blanket to his dog Numi to smell and begin to search.

The route initially taken was from the front entrance door to the passageway between Blocks 4 and 5, along the corridor and then along the passage that leads past the entrance to the small reception to the resort's swimming pool. After that the whole of the area surrounding the resort was searched.

His dog's speciality is patrolling (Maintenance of Public Order) although the dog also has some training in "tracking".
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html#gnr1

At 01.00 after the group commander had been briefed about the situation, telephone contact was made with an official from the Queluz GNR school, with the aim of their releasing search and rescue dog teams, seeing as these are specially trained to find missing persons, which is not the case with the Portimao sniffer dogs, which are essentially patrol dogs.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

4th May
At 08.00 three officers with 4 search and rescue dogs from Queluz arrived at the scene, these dogs immediately began to operate.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

After an evaluation of the situation in the field, it was decided to request two more search and rescue sniffer dogs from the GNR Queluz station, given the extent of the terrain to be searched, whilst the hypothesis that the girl could have left the apartment on foot was not discarded.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team).

After the officers had been updated about facts relating to the disappearance, they tried to reconstruct the route the girl might have taken with the two tracker dogs. For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

5th May

6 officers from the EPG sniffer team (search and rescue team)

Six officers from the Algarve Canine Rescue team (ECRA) - a legally constituted association - joined in the searches by volunteering their help at the P da L Operations Post.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #259 on: September 11, 2016, 09:41:13 AM »
Was that the same blanket as is seen in the photos of Madeleine's bed?   So any future photos of her bed would not have had a blanket on them, or did she have a second blanket?

Interesting again. There was only one blanket, Madeleine's 'princess' blanket brought with them on holiday. According to Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão he arrived at 2.30am on 4th with his dog and was given the blanket shortly afterwards. We have to assume, therefore, that the photos of the apartment were taken before that because the blanket is on the bed. The twins are gone, as is everyone else unless they waited outside and then went back in afterwards.

According to Vitor Martins he arrived at around 1am;  he and Officer Barreiras. He immediately asked the McCanns friends to leave and asked the OC services director to relocate the family. Following this the twins were moved so the site could be searched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm#p15p3862

According to Kate;

So the staff put up two extra cots in Fiona and David’s apartment and we carried a sleepy Sean and Amelie into their sitting room. But I needed to keep them close to me. I lowered myself down on to the couch with Fiona. She took a twin from me and we both sat there hugging my children.
[Madeleine]

Did Kate go to the Payne's a while before 2.30am, then? She must have, to allow time for the photographer, Officer Barreiras, to take his photos showing the blanket on the bed. She doesn't mention returning to the apartment after arriving at the Payne's, but she must have done in order to;

I fetched the pink princess blanket she took to bed with her every night, which they took, and some of her clothes, which they didn’t.
[Madeleine]

She also gives the impression that she was in the apartment when the PJ left;

The next thing I knew, the PJ officers were heading for the front door. I felt another surge of panic. When I asked them anxiously where they were going, they said they had finished for tonight
[Madeleine]


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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #260 on: September 11, 2016, 10:21:52 AM »
I don't know if Jane Tanner ever mentioned a blanket. It certainly wasn't mentioned on 4th May;

About the child whom appeared to be sleeping, she only saw her legs. The child appeared to be older than a baby. She was barefoot and was wearing what appeared to be cotton pyjamas of a light colour (possibly white or light pink). She is not certain, but has the impression a design on the pyjamas, possibly a floral pattern, but she is not certain.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm

Perhaps that blanket was one of those myths?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:40:25 PM by John »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #261 on: September 11, 2016, 10:24:10 AM »
Interesting again. There was only one blanket, Madeleine's 'princess' blanket brought with them on holiday. According to Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão he arrived at 2.30am on 4th with his dog and was given the blanket shortly afterwards. We have to assume, therefore, that the photos of the apartment were taken before that because the blanket is on the bed. The twins are gone, as is everyone else unless they waited outside and then went back in afterwards.

According to Vitor Martins he arrived at around 1am;  he and Officer Barreiras. He immediately asked the McCanns friends to leave and asked the OC services director to relocate the family. Following this the twins were moved so the site could be searched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm#p15p3862

According to Kate;

So the staff put up two extra cots in Fiona and David’s apartment and we carried a sleepy Sean and Amelie into their sitting room. But I needed to keep them close to me. I lowered myself down on to the couch with Fiona. She took a twin from me and we both sat there hugging my children.
[Madeleine]

Did Kate go to the Payne's a while before 2.30am, then? She must have, to allow time for the photographer, Officer Barreiras, to take his photos showing the blanket on the bed. She doesn't mention returning to the apartment after arriving at the Payne's, but she must have done in order to;

I fetched the pink princess blanket she took to bed with her every night, which they took, and some of her clothes, which they didn’t.
[Madeleine]

She also gives the impression that she was in the apartment when the PJ left;

The next thing I knew, the PJ officers were heading for the front door. I felt another surge of panic. When I asked them anxiously where they were going, they said they had finished for tonight
[Madeleine]
So do you think she went back down to 5A to get the blanket for the tracking team?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 10:55:21 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #262 on: September 11, 2016, 10:50:34 AM »
So what are the facts?  Are we actually classing this as a fact?  The dogs sniffed a blanket and one tacked to the secondary reception.  The next day two dogs sniffed on a towel and one tracked to the door of the secondary reception.  No internal search of the secondary reception was done.
Just from that I'm not sure what that means.  That could just be the dogs were tracking Matt Oldfield for he went from the apartment to the secondary reception to get the staff there to ring the police 10:10 PM. Matt may have touched the towel and the blanket at some stage prior to this 2:30 AM.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:41:12 PM by John »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #263 on: September 11, 2016, 11:02:23 AM »
I don't know if Jane Tanner ever mentioned a blanket. It certainly wasn't mentioned on 4th May;

About the child whom appeared to be sleeping, she only saw her legs. The child appeared to be older than a baby. She was barefoot and was wearing what appeared to be cotton pyjamas of a light colour (possibly white or light pink). She is not certain, but has the impression a design on the pyjamas, possibly a floral pattern, but she is not certain.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm

Perhaps that blanket was one of those myths?
Does Crecheman say he wrapped his child in a pink blanket?

Pegasus reports http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5018.msg186386#msg186386
Quote
Because it was only in 2013 that SY identified the girl seen by JT and photographed that girl's blanket.
So can we see crecheman's blanket?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 11:07:55 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #264 on: September 11, 2016, 11:15:19 AM »
So do you think she went back down to 5A to get the blanket for the tracking team?

She must have done if she carried the twins up to the Payne's because they went before the photos were taken which were taken before the blanket was given to the dog handler. Logic.

Fiona said;

I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

She doesn't mention Kate leaving again. Her next recollection is deciding to try to rest at about 4.30am.

Dianne said;

 “And err eventually when err Dave and Fiona came back and I can’t remember if they came back carrying the twins or whether they came back first and said the twins are coming up here I can’t remember, err but the twins appeared err in our apartment, they were put down to sleep. That was when the Police had cordoned off the apartment and err Kate and Gerry came up.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm
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Offline Brietta

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #265 on: September 11, 2016, 11:15:36 AM »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #266 on: September 11, 2016, 11:22:29 AM »
Does Crecheman say he wrapped his child in a pink blanket?

Pegasus reports http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5018.msg186386#msg186386So can we see crecheman's blanket?

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #267 on: September 11, 2016, 11:44:36 AM »

So if we were to get SY to check that blanket for pollen grains it would show a pattern that would confirm it was in PDL in the month of May?  I find it odd that a specific pair of pyjamas were kept.  Have they been washed since then?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 11:47:28 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #268 on: September 11, 2016, 12:09:04 PM »
So if we were to get SY to check that blanket for pollen grains it would show a pattern that would confirm it was in PDL in the month of May?  I find it odd that a specific pair of pyjamas were kept.  Have they been washed since then?

Others don't find it odd to keep a child's clothes for 6 years. I do, but I'm not one for keeping things. SY seemed keen to suggest that they had found the man and his child's clothes. Whether they bothered with any checks such as yu suggest we don't know. The blanket could easily have been there, but that doesn't place it near G5A at about 9.15pm.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The tracker dogs
« Reply #269 on: September 11, 2016, 12:35:14 PM »
Others don't find it odd to keep a child's clothes for 6 years. I do, but I'm not one for keeping things. SY seemed keen to suggest that they had found the man and his child's clothes. Whether they bothered with any checks such as yu suggest we don't know. The blanket could easily have been there, but that doesn't place it near G5A at about 9.15pm.
They might have got the clothes back but not the blanket.  So in that case the blanket is just a replacement.
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