If the man Jane Tanner saw was the abductor, how long did he have ?

[Mrs. B]

No, I don't think they do.
Only someone passing the gate would see a child on a flowerbed in the darkness of the patio, if the child had light colour clothes on.

No, as my link above shows, there were people in the apartments surrounding the McCann's apartment too.

[DCI]

Now that is very poor.

Ask the dogs.

Try to comprehend that the inconclusive results of the D.N.A. testing, does not mean what the dogs indicated was wrong.

So no points on that one Mrs. B.

Good idea, I think we should also ask the dogs, who died half way up the wall, in the car park, forensic check

[DCI]

Amaral demonstrated it was impossible for an abductor to hide behind the bedroom door,  besides the abductor would have to have moved the door to get behind it and Gerry would have noticed that and the cots where in front of the wardrobe doors so no hiding place there.

Sorry Faith, you are wrong!
The door opens towards the wardrobes, and there is a recess behind it, when open.




There was room for the kidnapper to hide inside fitted wardrobe.

[Mrs. B]

Ah, so Amaral was wrong....again.

[Eleanor]

In the wardrobe. Behind the door.  It's pretty obvious that the abductor could have easily hidden.

[DCI]

Ah, so Amaral was wrong....again.

No change there, Mrs B 

Don't suppose anyone thinks, that someone could have been in the apartment earlier in the day, and released the lock on the window?

[AnneGuedes]

Simply not true - you really can't go on accusing ALL witnesses of lying, you know.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/347692/Maddie-McCann-may-have-been-watched-from-balcony-witness-tells-Yard

Please, Mrs B, don't accuse me of accusing, you know perfectly well I didn't. I even, above, said I didn't believe the Tapas group had lied !
Now Mr MacKenzie, the one who was so surprised to hear Mr McCann (identified later) speaking of paedophile gangs on the phone and said he "felt as if (he) were intruding on a private moment", doesn't say in his statement to the LC in december 2007 that he saw a peeping Tom on a balcony on the 3rd of May night. He only mentions having found cigarette butts of no determined age and thought this balcony was a good place to spot on the G5A. As he was only there in daytime, we can't infer the visibility at night.
Tabloids are no reference, imo.

[Carana]

Sorry Faith, you are wrong!
The door opens towards the wardrobes, and there is a recess behind it, when open.




There was room for the kidnapper to hide inside fitted wardrobe.

Possibly, but that's not actually clear from the photos as to how much space there actually was between the cot and the wardrobe door.

[Eleanor]

Please, Mrs B, don't accuse me of accusing, you know perfectly well I didn't. I even, above, said I didn't believe the Tapas group had lied !
Now Mr MacKenzie, the one who was so surprised to hear Mr McCann (identified later) speaking of paedophile gangs on the phone and said he "felt as if (he) were intruding on a private moment", doesn't say in his statement to the LC in december 2007 that he saw a peeping Tom on a balcony on the 3rd of May night. He only mentions having found cigarette butts of no determined age and thought this balcony was a good place to spot on the G5A. As he was only there in daytime, we can't infer the visibility at night.
Tabloids are no reference, imo.

Excuse me.  Who heard Gerry McCann speaking about Paedophile Gangs on the telephone?

I think that even I might need a Cite for that one.

[icabodcrane]

An abductor hiding in the apartment makes no sense in a number of ways   

Firstly, we are told, by the McCanns themselves, that they were being  'watched'  for a few days, and that the abductor had become aware of their checking regime

So why would this abductor watch the McCanns leave the apartment at 8.30pm,  then wait half an hour before going into the apartment at the exact time he knew a check was due  ?

Secondly,  even if the abductor was  stupid enough to put himself in the apartment when a check was due  (  or if he was, in fact, an opportunistic abductor who had not been watching the McCanns at all, and had no idea that a check was due  )  there is still the business of where to hide

The first he would have known would be Gerry sliding the patio door open and walking in.  At that point, Gerry was already looking straight ahead at the children's bedroom in front of him, with it's wider than usual open door


The abductor could not have moved from anywhere else in the room  to get himself behind the door without passing directly in Gerry's line of vision  (  he would have to have already been standing behind the door when Gerry came in ) 

As to hiding in the wardrobe,  even if it was accessible  ( the cots ),  and even if was relatively empty  ( which it would have to be )  he would still, without question,  make some noise doing it.  The apartment was still and quiet and Gerry would almost certainly have heard someone getting in the wardrobe

[AnneGuedes]

No, as my link above shows, there were people in the apartments surrounding the McCann's apartment too.

I don't understand your point, Mrs. B. What are you suggesting ? That if by misfortune Madeleine had fallen from the balcony and broken his crown, somebody in the surrounding flats, would have seen her ?

[south of the river]

I know Amaral doesn't seem to have a good track record in basic police work - but surely to goodness that he and the rest of the PJ would have least worked out after talking to all the witnesses in the area - Tapas , staff , other guests where their no one suspect was at the time of the discovery .

The argument that perhaps Gerry could have been 10 minutes away at 9.50 with a dead body in his arms ( to suit the Smith sighting ) but then back in place at around 10ish to play his " role "  I mean even the most dense witness might have worked out that a breathless Gerry rushing back from somewhere

Also can anyone really accept  that in that 5 minute window Gerry managed to dispose of a body that managed to evade a mass of searching by dozens of police , sniffer dogs , etc etc - come on

[Mrs. B]

Please, Mrs B, don't accuse me of accusing, you know perfectly well I didn't. I even, above, said I didn't believe the Tapas group had lied !
Now Mr MacKenzie, the one who was so surprised to hear Mr McCann (identified later) speaking of paedophile gangs on the phone and said he "felt as if (he) were intruding on a private moment", doesn't say in his statement to the LC in december 2007 that he saw a peeping Tom on a balcony on the 3rd of May night. He only mentions having found cigarette butts of no determined age and thought this balcony was a good place to spot on the G5A. As he was only there in daytime, we can't infer the visibility at night.
Tabloids are no reference, imo.

No, you said that the ONLY way someone could spot a child in a flowerbed was if they walked past the apartment. I stated that there are apartments surrounding 5A & higher up where people have full view into the "garden" of 5A. Though the area wasn't well lit (that's changed now btw) it was by no means in absolute darkness, you'd still be able to make out a child's body in a flowerbed from apts. facing or on the side of 5A.

[Eleanor]

I know Amaral doesn't seem to have a good track record in basic police work - but surely to goodness that he and the rest of the PJ would have least worked out after talking to all the witnesses in the area - Tapas , staff , other guests where their no one suspect was at the time of the discovery .

The argument that perhaps Gerry could have been 10 minutes away at 9.50 with a dead body in his arms ( to suit the Smith sighting ) but then back in place at around 10ish to play his " role "  I mean even the most dense witness might have worked out that a breathless Gerry rushing back from somewhere

Also can anyone really accept  that in that 5 minute window Gerry managed to dispose of a body that managed to evade a mass of searching by dozens of police , sniffer dogs , etc etc - come on

Exactly.  The whole thing is logistically impossible.  Which is one of the things that Scotland Yard will have ascertained.

[DCI]

In the wardrobe. Behind the door.  It's pretty obvious that the abductor could have easily hidden.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but thread was de railed.