Leonor Cipriano lawyer - Dr Marcos Aragão Correia and his involvement with the McCann family.

[stephen25000]

only suposed evidence was brutally tortured out of her, Joao and Leandro.

To any civilised person, that IS NOT EVIDENCE

NO EVIDENCE Stephen.  NONE at all.

THe one Judge protested refusing to put his name to the finding.

Prove they were tortured.

What about her missing daughter ?

and quite frankly would you have had any interest in this case at all but for the Mccanns ?

[faithlilly]

Prove they were tortured.

What about her missing daughter ?

and quite frankly would you have had any interest in this case at all but for the Mccanns ?

Of course not Stephen. If Amaral wasn't involved the PJ could have beaten Cipriano black, blue or dayglo orange and the supporters wouldn't have batted and eyelid.

[icabodcrane]

Prove they were tortured.

What about her missing daughter ?

and quite frankly would you have had any interest in this case at all but for the Mccanns ?

I don't usually get involved in the Cipriano discussions  (  it upsets me a bit  ) 

It is so sad that a poor,  unfortunate little girl,  who lead a miserable life that was brutally cut short by those who were meant to care for her,   is used as some sort of pawn in the McCann propaganda war

Even in death this poor child is exploited   

[Benice]

I don't usually get involved in the Cipriano discussions  (  it upsets me a bit  ) 

It is so sad that a poor,  unfortunate little girl,  who lead a miserable life that was brutally cut short by those who were meant to care for her,   is used as some sort of pawn in the McCann propaganda war

Even in death this poor child is exploited   

If it wasn't for Amaral - I for one wouldn't know Leonor Cipriano existed.   However the fact that Amaral was made an Arguido on the 4th May was obviously not going to be ignored by people following the McCann Case.   Of course people were going to enquire into why he was made an Arguido.   

And having looked into the Cipriano case - I'm sure many like myself were appalled to find that this lady had been convicted on a confession which it transpired had been tortured out of her.   Even more alarming to discover that the Lead Investigator of the McCann case was involved - and that's why he was an Arguido - and for which he received a criminal conviction.

How anyone can expect all that not to be commented on is beyond me.  The very fact that he was allowed to be in charge of the McCann case in the first place is outrageous.    As is the fact that Leonora Cipriano is still in prison.
IMO.

 

[icabodcrane]

If it wasn't for Amaral - I for one wouldn't know Leonor Cipriano existed.   However the fact that Amaral was made an Arguido on the 4th May was obviously not going to be ignored by people following the McCann Case.   Of course people were going to enquire into why he was made an Arguido.   

And having looked into the Cipriano case - I'm sure many like myself were appalled to find that this lady had been convicted on a confession which it transpired had been tortured out of her.   Even more alarming to discover that the Lead Investigator of the McCann case was involved - and that's why he was an Arguido - and for which he received a criminal conviction.

How anyone can expect all that not to be commented on is beyond me.  The very fact that he was allowed to be in charge of the McCann case in the first place is outrageous.    As is the fact that Leonora Cipriano is still in prison.
IMO.

And what if,  despite the appalling methods used by the police  )  the verdict was, ulitimately correct  ?

What if,  that woman and her brother  (  who had already been in prison for attempted murder and blinding a man  )  really  DID  abuse and murder a child ?

Being concerned that the verdict reached was  'unsafe'  is one thing,  but insisting that this woman and her brother should be  'championed'  as innocent  victims is outrageous

[Benice]

And what if,  despite the appalling methods used by the police  )  the verdict was, ulitimately correct  ?

What if,  that woman and her brother  (  who had already been in prison for attempted murder and blinding a man  )  really  DID  abuse and murder a child ?

Being concerned that the verdict reached was  'unsafe'  is one thing,  but insisting that this woman and her brother should be  'championed'  as innocent  victims is outrageous

Good grief Icab -  if we condone the use of torture by the police as being perfectly acceptable  - for any reason  - at any time, then we might as well all go back into the jungle and let the lynchmobs rule.

How can you trust the word of any policeman involved in the McCann case who has been proved to be corrupt in previous cases?   IMO you cannot.           

[Redblossom]

Well said Icab. Lets not forget they both changed their stories more times than they had hot dinners. Awful pair. And no, it was never proved the police beat her to get a confession. She made that in the presence of her original lawyer on a date BEFORE the alledged  police beating took place. Been  through all this before. And no she was NOT convicted on her confession. Confessions are not allowed in courts as evidence.

[DCI]

When Leonor was tortured there was no lawyer at the place. Fact confirmed by the Courts.

[Redblossom]

When Leonor was tortured there was no lawyer at the place. Fact confirmed by the Courts.

When she made her confession there was. Which begs the question why any torture seeing as a confession was already made in the presence of her lawyer.
You could have a word with her INMATES too see how they took the news

!


Eta actually, go read the original thread, its all in there, chow

[icabodcrane]

Good grief Icab -  if we condone the use of torture by the police as being perfectly acceptable  - for any reason  - at any time, then we might as well all go back into the jungle and let the lynchmobs rule.

How can you trust the word of any policeman involved in the McCann case who has been proved to be corrupt in previous cases?   IMO you cannot.         

There it is again,  you see,  using a child's sad life and brutal end in order to  facilitate a defense of the McCanns

It is just this type of exploitation of little Joana that saddens  me

Her mother and uncle ,  were convicted of brutalising and murdering her ...  and despite   the indefensible and appalling methods used by the police,  they  MAY,  in truth,  be guilty of the horrific acts they were accused of

Let's just be clear about that

In order to support the McCanns you may be defending a man and woman who's wickedness and cruelty knew no bounds 

[DCI]

When she made her confession there was. Which begs the question why any torture seeing as a confession was already made in the presence of her lawyer.
You could have a word with her INMATES too see how they took the news

!


Eta actually, go read the original thread, its all in there, chow

No there wasn't. Go read the court report for 2004.

Oh and by the way, the inmates were very supportive of Leonor.
I remember some numpty saying, a prison guard said the Odemira prison director Ana Maria Calado, got them to lie, about how she got her injuries.
Funny that guard was later done for lying in court.

[Redblossom]

No there wasn't. Go read the court report for 2004.

Oh and by the way, the inmates were very supportive of Leonor.
I remember some numpty saying, a prison guard said the Odemira prison director Ana Maria Calado, got them to lie, about how she got her injuries.
Funny that guard was later done for lying in court.

you will of course give a cite to it in due time hopefully, and preferably in ENGLISH, instead of expecting any readers to just KNOW where it is

As for her inmates being sympathetic to her after she confessed to being  involved in the killing of her child, words fail,they really do, nothing left to be said here, Im done

[Benice]

There it is again,  you see,  using a child's sad life and brutal end in order to  facilitate a defense of the McCanns

It is just this type of exploitation of little Joana that saddens  me

Her mother and uncle ,  were convicted of brutalising and murdering her ...  and despite   the indefensible and appalling methods used by the police,  they  MAY,  in truth,  be guilty of the horrific acts they were accused of

Let's just be clear about that

In order to support the McCanns you may be defending a man and woman who's wickedness and cruelty knew no bounds

Nonsense, as far as I'm concerned there's no clear evidence that Leonor's daughter is dead.   IIRC the incest related motive presented by the PJ was rejected by the court.   

[DCI]

you will of course give a cite to it in due time hopefully, and preferably in ENGLISH, instead of expecting any readers to just KNOW where it is

As for her inmates being sympathetic to her after she confessed to being  involved in the killing of her child, words fail,they really do, nothing left to be said here, Im done

Joana Case: Prison guard made arguido Jornal de Notícias
By Marisa Rodrigues

20 February 2009 - 00h30m

Thanks to Joana Morais for translation

The prison guard, who said that the prison director of Odemira had suggested a change to the report on the alleged aggressions made to Leonor Cipriano, has been constituted an arguido in the disciplinary process.
Initiated by the General Directorate of the Prison Services, this process originated in the statements given by António Maia during the trial of the five Polícia Judiciária (PJ) Inspectors, which today returns to the Court of Faro.

Currently working in Silves, the former former sub-chief of the Odemira prison guards was heard as a witness in October last year. As he was questioned by the lawyer of the arguido Gonçalo Amaral, he said that the mother of Joana explained that the abrasions she had on her face were the result of "fall on the stairs" inside the premises of the PJ in Faro as a consequence of "dizziness" after a day of questioning, in 2004. "Do you believe this is correct? Do you think she fell down the stairs? Wasn't it torture?", asked Ana Maria Calado, director of the establishment, while reading the report. Before the court of jury, António Maia stated he did not alter the document.
JN knows that Ana Maria Calado has been an object of an inquest process, which was eventually shelved.

[sadie]

Let's just be clear about that

In order to support the McCanns you may be defending a man and woman who's wickedness and cruelty knew no bounds

More spin and make believe Icabod. 

No proof of any sort that
1) Joana is dead
2) Leonor, or Joao, even touched her


I think she is still alive