So what are the various scenarios available to us?

[Redblossom]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.

IIRC side of patio door was found to belong to one of the. Police officers, as for the exterior of the blinds, most probably Gerry and Diana Websters as they admitted they fiddled with them

[Benice]

What does multi- translated mean? The quote afaiaw is from GAs book and was translated by one person, Annaesse, perhaps one of your PT reading friends can compare the original portuguese with the translation. As I posted earlier JTs sketch shows more long than short hair, as does the mccanns own documentary

From Goncalo Amarals book?    The one where he says this:-

QUOTE
Tuesday May 1st

For an hour and a quarter, between 10.30 and 11.45pm, in the apartment where she is in the company of her brother and her sister, Madeleine does not stop crying and calling out for her father. She does not calm down until after her parents return.

Wednesday May 2nd

At breakfast, Madeleine asks her parents why they left her to cry the night before, and did not come back immediately
END QUOTE

Notice how he lies and changes the date from the 3rd to the 2nd to make it seem that it was the very next morning after what Mrs Fenn heard -  when Madeleine asked the question - when actually it was 2 days later.

He also deliberately leaves out Sean's name when he relates what Madeleine said - to make it fit in with Mrs. Fenn hearing only ONE child crying and not two as Madeleine claimed.

Sorry Red, but if he can tell such porkies as that - then no quotes from his book can be taken as reliable - no matter who translated it IMO.

[Heriberto Janosch]

From Goncalo Amarals book?    The one where he says this:-

QUOTE
Tuesday May 1st

For an hour and a quarter, between 10.30 and 11.45pm, in the apartment where she is in the company of her brother and her sister, Madeleine does not stop crying and calling out for her father. She does not calm down until after her parents return.

Wednesday May 2nd

At breakfast, Madeleine asks her parents why they left her to cry the night before, and did not come back immediately
END QUOTE

Notice how he lies and changes the date from the 3rd to the 2nd to make it seem that it was the very next morning after what Mrs Fenn heard -  when Madeleine asked the question - when actually it was 2 days later.

He also deliberately leaves out Sean's name when he relates what Madeleine said - to make it fit in with Mrs. Fenn hearing only ONE child crying and not two as Madeleine claimed.

Sorry Red, but if he can tell such porkies as that - then no quotes from his book can be taken as reliable - no matter who translated it IMO.

It is very interesting reading Amaral's book! (I read it twice).

But only if you read it with the PJ Files nearby. Read half page, go to the files to see, take note, and so on ... When you finish you will have a lot of interesting things in your notes.

Heri.

[Redblossom]

Benice GA was obviously trying to explore a link between two crying stories, its a policemans job and prerogative to do so with any information available, its their JOB to be suspicious

KMs testimony is not independent or corroborated, so we have no idea that what she said Madeleine said was actually true or evenhalf a truth

In any case  you have avoided addressing the issues surrounding JTs description of the abductors hair and they are not confined to GAs writings

ETA the titling of wed 2 may for the crying story is wrong I agree but doesnt prove he is trying to lie, he could be mistaken, as Heri says many people can be, he is not a computer or superman, if youwant to accord x y z epithet for this your prerogative

Oh and Benice, many examples havebeen shown that what  is printed in KMs book is half truths so you believe everything in it 100% is beyond me really for a self professed reasonable and fairly intelligent person, unles you blindly believe everything, and wont critique anything at all, not even someone who gives GA benefit of the doubt believes blindly in everything he has written and wont criticise it

[Eleanor]

It is quite obvious to any sane person that The Mccanns are innocent and that there is an abductor walking around out there, who Scotland Yard are trying to identify.  Fortunately, none of The Troll rubbish is making a scrap of difference.
But I want the abductor or abductors identified because they are dangerous people who could well have moved somewhere else, to strike again.
I just don't understand why certain people are trying so hard to pretend that no such person or people exist when we know only too well that they do.

[stephen25000]

So please elaborate for us Stephen.  How does one behave normally when your 3 yr old child is taken from her bed in a holiday apartment in a foreign country?

You do not know she was taken by an abductor.

That is supposition.

[Redblossom]

It is quite obvious to any sane person that The Mccanns are innocent and that there is an abductor walking around out there, who Scotland Yard are trying to identify.  Fortunately, none of The Troll rubbish is making a scrap of difference.
But I want the abductor or abductors identified because they are dangerous people who could well have moved somewhere else, to strike again.
I just don't understand why certain people are trying so hard to pretend that no such person or people exist when we know only too well that they do.

Feel better now? Has this abductor struck again? has he stolen another 3 yr old child from their bed or anywhere else for a loving family? Or trafficking? I watch all news channels, seen zilch......if there was any concrete evidence people wouldnt ask questions  unfortunately the  statistics show family are involved in most cases andnot strangers, so you cannot castigate people for wondering on the issues in a massive COLD CASE inthe media every other day,  and you cant call police officers insane for doing the same

As for your last sentence, NO you dont know, I dont know, the police dont KNOW, so your sentence is null and void, and if you KNOW, youhave to provide the proof, knowing is a mile away from suspecting

Oh and  btw no one has ever declared the mccanns innocent, they may be, but this is a fact, and the lifting of arguido status is only commensurate with shelving a case, lifting of status does not mean innocent ie its PARKED, and if youhave contrary info on this issue  post it for me and others to read

[sadie]

Quote from: stephen25000 on Today at 02:39:28 PM
Bottom line.

No proof of an abduction.[/quote]

hey dude

I cannot understand your logic here as there is lots of evidence which supports the abduction claim and little of anything which points to the parents being involved in any sinister deed. 

Is it a case of the needle being stuck with you mate??

Is it a case of the needle being stuck with you mate??

I lurve it !

[sadie]

From Goncalo Amarals book?    The one where he says this:-

QUOTE
Tuesday May 1st

For an hour and a quarter, between 10.30 and 11.45pm, in the apartment where she is in the company of her brother and her sister, Madeleine does not stop crying and calling out for her father. She does not calm down until after her parents return.

Wednesday May 2nd

At breakfast, Madeleine asks her parents why they left her to cry the night before, and did not come back immediately
END QUOTE

Notice how he lies and changes the date from the 3rd to the 2nd to make it seem that it was the very next morning after what Mrs Fenn heard -  when Madeleine asked the question - when actually it was 2 days later.

He also deliberately leaves out Sean's name when he relates what Madeleine said - to make it fit in with Mrs. Fenn hearing only ONE child crying and not two as Madeleine claimed.[/b]

Sorry Red, but if he can tell such porkies as that - then no quotes from his book can be taken as reliable - no matter who translated it IMO.

Well spotted Benice.

As the mother of two children who for a period shared a bedroom, I can tell you that if one child woke and started crying, it wasn't long before both were at it.

Dread to think what it would have been like had three of them been crying together ... cos that is what would have happened


tbh, it is more likely that the child crying was next door,.  Remember Mrs Fenns place spanned the two flats

[sadie]

It is very interesting reading Amaral's book! (I read it twice).

But only if you read it with the PJ Files nearby. Read half page, go to the files to see, take note, and so on ... When you finish you will have a lot of interesting things in your notes.

Heri.

What an interesting thing to do.  I wish I had the time.

I have found an anomoly too, from Amarals office.  A serious one.  SY know

[sadie]

It is quite obvious to any sane person that The Mccanns are innocent and that there is an abductor walking around out there, who Scotland Yard are trying to identify.  Fortunately, none of The Troll rubbish is making a scrap of difference.
But I want the abductor or abductors identified because they are dangerous people who could well have moved somewhere else, to strike again.
I just don't understand why certain people are trying so hard to pretend that no such person or people exist when we know only too well that they do.

 

I just don't understand why certain people are trying so hard to pretend that no such person or people exist when we know only too well that they do.

Well said Eleanor; my feelings exactly

[Redblossom]

It is quite obvious to any sane person that The Mccanns are innocent and that there is an abductor walking around out there, who Scotland Yard are trying to identify.  Fortunately, none of The Troll rubbish is making a scrap of difference.
But I want the abductor or abductors identified because they are dangerous people who could well have moved somewhere else, to strike again.
I just don't understand why certain people are trying so hard to pretend that no such person or people exist when we know only too well that they do.

Feel better now? Has this abductor struck again? has he stolen another 3 yr old child from their bed or anywhere else for a loving family? Or trafficking? I watch all news channels, seen zilch......if there was any concrete evidence people wouldnt ask questions  unfortunately the  statistics show family are involved in most cases andnot strangers, so you cannot castigate people for wondering on the issues in a massive COLD CASE inthe media every other day,  and you cant call police officers insane for doing the same

As for your last sentence, NO you dont know, I dont know, the police dont KNOW, so your sentence is null and void, and if you KNOW, youhave to provide the proof, knowing is a mile away from suspecting

Oh and  btw no one has ever declared the mccanns innocent, they may be, but this is a fact, and the lifting of arguido status is only commensurate with shelving a case, lifting of status does not mean innocent ie its PARKED, and if youhave contrary info on this issue  post it for me and others to read

bump for reply on this but all other issues, thanks in advance

[Benice]

Benice GA was obviously trying to explore a link between two crying stories, its a policemans job and prerogative to do so with any information available, its their JOB to be suspicious

KMs testimony is not independent or corroborated, so we have no idea that what she said Madeleine said was actually true or evenhalf a truth

In any case  you have avoided addressing the issues surrounding JTs description of the abductors hair and they are not confined to GAs writings

ETA the titling of wed 2 may for the crying story is wrong I agree but doesnt prove he is trying to lie, he could be mistaken, as Heri says many people can be, he is not a computer or superman, if youwant to accord x y z epithet for this your prerogative

Oh and Benice, many examples havebeen shown that what  is printed in KMs book is half truths so you believe everything in it 100% is beyond me really for a self professed reasonable and fairly intelligent person, unles you blindly believe everything, and wont critique anything at all, not even someone who gives GA benefit of the doubt believes blindly in everything he has written and wont criticise it

Amarals book is supposed to be based on what is in the files, not on what he wishes was in the files.  His account of the Mrs Fenn incident is totally dishonest - and has been done to convince the reader of what HE wants them to believe regardless of the truth.   It's not the only example either.

With regard to the sightings, unlike yourself Red, I do not expect to see totally identical descriptions from different people.  That is not how memory works.    If the Smiths had said they saw a man with short fair hair then that would be different, but IMO 'short brown hair' and 'thick dark hair slightly longer at the neck' is near enough for me.  Were the Smiths asked if the man's hair was thick?  It would seem not.  The rest of the descriptions are also similar enough, i.e. age, height, build, clothing, plus the two descriptions of the child -  for me to believe it is far more likely that they are talking about the same man than two different men.

As for Kates book then I am absolutely positive that it was scrutinised to the Nth degree before going to publication to make sure that there was nothing in it which could be proved to be an untrue statement by Kate,  or that it contained anything which could be construed as libellous.      So far no-one is sueing Kate McCann - not even Amaral  - even though she states in her book that his claim that JT positively identified Murat as the abductor is 'completely untrue'.



   

[Redblossom]

Amarals book is supposed to be based on what is in the files, not on what he wishes was in the files.  His account of the Mrs Fenn incident is totally dishonest - and has been done to convince the reader of what HE wants them to believe regardless of the truth.   It's not the only example either.

With regard to the sightings, unlike yourself Red, I do not expect to see totally identical descriptions from different people.  That is not how memory works.    If the Smiths had said they saw a man with short fair hair then that would be different, but IMO 'short brown hair' and 'thick dark hair slightly longer at the neck' is near enough for me.  Were the Smiths asked if the man's hair was thick?  It would seem not.  The rest of the descriptions are also similar enough, i.e. age, height, build, clothing, plus the two descriptions of the child -  for me to believe it is far more likely that they are talking about the same man than two different men.

As for Kates book then I am absolutely positive that it was scrutinised to the Nth degree before going to publication to make sure that there was nothing in it which could be proved to be an untrue statement by Kate,  or that it contained anything which could be construed as libellous.      So far no-one is sueing Kate McCann - not even Amaral  - even though she states in her book that his claim that JT positively identified Murat as the abductor is 'completely untrue'.



 

Its ok I understand you believe kate mccann 100%


your prerogative but doesnt  mean anything fact wise in any way shape or form and no scrutinising of what she wrote by publishers or laywers who know diddly  squat can  ever deter from the fact that she did write untruths

Oh and btw jt DID finger murat! She says as much in her rogatory

[icabodcrane]

Well spotted Benice.

As the mother of two children who for a period shared a bedroom, I can tell you that if one child woke and started crying, it wasn't long before both were at it.

Dread to think what it would have been like had three of them been crying together ... cos that is what would have happened


tbh, it is more likely that the child crying was next door,.  Remember Mrs Fenns place spanned the two flats

That is a fair point

If one child was crying,  increasingly distressed and calling out,  it is almost inevitable that the other two children in the same room would be wakened and start crying too