Author Topic: So where does Amaral turn? ...  (Read 39189 times)

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icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2013, 02:18:27 AM »


Interesting.

You though  ...  not so much

Lighten up Neeley  ...  it's late,  and we're all just folk on a forum 

In  the  'real world'   away from this ridiculous forum war,  we all might get on famously  ...  mightn't we  ? 

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2013, 02:19:32 AM »
Well in her statement to police she said she never touched  the window..fast forward two years later  she tells Oprah Winfrey she ran to the window to look out presumably touching it whilst  looking out...didnt Mr Amaral and co decide the prints found on the inside were made by someone opening a window?
Lol ! Forums have taught them a lot.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2013, 02:20:19 AM »
You're going all James Joyce there Red 8(>(( Finnegan's Wake.


Very funny there, Lyall. Personally I am a big fan of Red's literary style.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2013, 02:21:59 AM »
Speaking of Holmes and Columbo, I have been looking for a clip I saw a few years ago of a scene between two actors playing Sherlock Holmes and Columbo meeting each other for the first time. It was excellently written, and hilarious, but I can't remember what it was called or who the actors were, so haven't managed to find it.

Does it ring any bells?

Holmes and Columbo are trying to work something out together. Columbo is pretending that he doesn't understand much of what is going on. Holmes in turn, who cannot be expected to know who Columbo is, has of course completely worked him out. Such a good piece.

I havn't seen that one  ...  I'd like to though  ( I'll  do a bit of googling and IMDB'ing tomorrow  ) 

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2013, 02:24:24 AM »
You though  ...  not so much

Lighten up Neeley  ...  it's late,  and we're all just folk on a forum 

In  the  'real world'   away from this ridiculous forum war,  we all might get on famously  ...  mightn't we  ?

Interesting you say that.  I was just thinking recently that if we all met up in a waterfront cafe in Portugal to discuss the Arts, current events, share holiday snaps etc. - would be nice wouldn't it - the people who are at loggerheads on the forum could end up getting on like a house on fire.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 02:33:55 AM by Sherlock Holmes »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2013, 02:24:35 AM »
as happened to mr whicher and his middle class suspects
 >@@(*&)

I suppose history can repeat itself
"The suspicions of Mr Whicher", it's a book. I always found Mr Whicher and Mr Amaral had a lot in common.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2013, 02:30:58 AM »
There's a line in The Guilty where the top cop says to the officer in charge of the investigation "If you make an accusation like that [against the missing child's parents] it will end your career."
In fact it's the most difficult situation that a police inspector can have to face.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2013, 02:34:24 AM »
I don't think I have ever said a bad word against you icabodcrane.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No,  you havn't Neeley,  to me,  you've always been polite and generous  ... which is why I wish you could let your hair down and join in with a bit of harmless banter once in a while

*in my best Mrs Doyle voice*   ...  g'wan,  g'wan g'wan  8(0(*

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2013, 03:00:12 AM »
Lol ! Forums have taught them a lot.

Havent they just


The original story was that Kate went in at 10 pm and found the window and shutter open and the curtains open

They insist the abduction happened at 9.15


matt Oldfield did a check inside at 9.30.. The curtians were shut

Soooo that means the abductor could not have acted before matts check

on 10 May Mccanns made a joint statement with all the others and kate ran over and pulled the curtains open
In kates 4th may statement she said she found them open

 But then two years later on Oprah Winfrey show and their documentary at rhe same time, she says the curtains were closed on her check at 10 pm and the wind blew them open


In other words it wasnt until forums commented on disxrepancies their stories changed

Never did kate mccann say in her police statements the wind opened the curtains lol, it was  found open and from joint  statement she ran over and opened the curtains lol
Hello? N gn
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 03:15:42 AM by Redblossom »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2013, 11:45:06 AM »
If she died in the flat who was more likely to dispose of her remains ? It would be very hypocritical to suggest otherwise.

Offline Luz

Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2013, 12:24:07 PM »
Amaral doesn't have to turn anywhere. It was already proven that he didn't commit any crime by the publication of his book - condition to demand a compensation for defamation. But as can be read in here (sorry for the extension of the quotes), no such crime was committed.

From the Appeals Court that lifted the ban on the book:

«The book that was written by the first defendant, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, presents a thesis that was at one time defended by several participants in the police investigation: that little Madeleine died accidentally and that her parents, here the first applicants, were suspected of concealing the cadaver.

This defendant was the Coordinating Inspector of the investigation into the case of the disappearance, thus being the most qualified police officer who intervened in the investigation until the time when, through a decision from the Judiciary Police’s (PJ) directory, he was removed from that function.

In that role, the defendant was deeply involved in the entire investigation and had the opportunity to formulate all of the possible conclusions about the case, while it was under investigation.

Approximately 5 months later, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the investigation through a decision of the PJ's directory.

As he clarifies several times throughout the book, the author felt the need to write it right away in order to, as he says, "recover my good name, which was publicly dragged through the mud while the institution that I served for 26 years, the Portuguese Judiciary Police, did not allow me to defend myself, nor defended me institutionally. I asked for permission to speak out in that sense, a request that remains unanswered to this day. I fully respected the PJ's rules, and remained in silence. Nevertheless, said silence was tearing my dignity apart.

Later on, I was removed from the investigation. I then decided that it was time for me to defend myself in a public way. Therefore, I immediately requested my retirement, so I could regain the plenitude of my freedom of expression."

This is a first point – and one that is not small – that should be registered: the author feels he is the victim of injustice and wants to re-establish the truth, at least his truth or his vision of truth, even more so as he felt that his honour was being diminished and the police force that he owed obedience to did not allow him to reply, as a police officer, to those attacks against his professional pride and his honour as a qualified criminal investigation police officer.
»

(...)

«We do not see that the right of the book's author, the defendant, can be limited by a right to the reservation of intimacy that suffered voluntary limitations by their holders, the applicants.

In the same way, concerning the applicants' right to image and a good name: upon placing the case in the public square and giving it worldwide notoriety, the applicants opened all doors to all opinions, even those that are adversarial to them.
»
(...)
«In a concise manner:

The book at stake in this process – "Maddie – the Truth of the Lie" – which was written by the defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, has the main motivation of defending his personal and professional honour, as the author points out right away in the preface and throughout his text.

The contents of the book does not offend any of the applicants' fundamental rights.

The exercise of its writing and publication is included in the constitutional rights that are secured to everyone by the European Convention on Human Rights and by the Portuguese Republic’s Constitution, namely in its articles 37º and 38º.»

[Lisbon and Appeals Court, 14.10.2010

The Appellate Court Judges,

Francisco Bruto da Costa
Catarina Arelo Manso
António Valente]


Everyone is free to interpret the data available and to formulate their opinions as long as they are well funded on the evidence.

When a person is harassed and accused of wrong doing, when such has not happened, I believe it is legitimate to bring those that are guilty of such actions to Trial, to respond for it. If it was with me I would be putting an action against such persons, and not for money but for a prison sentence, just as happened with Leonor Cipriano that was convicted for lying in Court.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2013, 12:51:21 PM »
The effects of the book on the McCann family life and on the search for Madeleine are at stake in this trial.

Offline Carana

Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2013, 02:31:49 PM »
No it doesn't. It says it is more likely than not that they were involved. That is a direct accusation and one that Amaral has to prove if the libel laws are the same as our ones. The word he uses is far stronger than suggesting the possibility exists. If that had been his intention, he could have said 'her parents were possibly involved in the concealment.' The word he chose does make the difference, but not in Amaral's favour. It is a direct accusation. The libel standard is the balance of probabilities not balance of possibilities. If it were on the balance possibilities, it would be nigh on impossible to lose a defamation action in the absence of the clearest evidence that the allegation was made was impossible.

The defamation laws are very different.

My understanding is that normally (unless there is a legal presumption to the contrary), in a civil case in Portugal, it is up to the plaintiff to provide proof that the rights that gave rise to the suit have been infringed and have caused damage, which then - somehow - has to be quantified.

It doesn't seem to matter what Amaral wrote or said (unless, presumably, it could be proven to have been done in bad faith), but whether whatever he has said or written infringed their rights and caused damage.

C.Edwards

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2013, 02:40:37 PM »
Bizarrely, it appears they could find in favour of the McCanns' claim but still award them very little as the court may also decide that being made arguido was as much, if not more, to blame for the damage and distress the McCanns suffered.  It will be virtually impossible to separate out the percentage damage caused by the book as opposed to the other things therefore my feeling is that the judge will not be likely to find in favour of the McCanns.  This is purely an opinion however and time will tell.  Once we start hearing from the defence witnesses (later this week?) and see how they are treated by the judge it will give a better idea of how things are going.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So where does Amaral turn? ...
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2013, 02:41:47 PM »
So how does this trial differ from the previous decision? Can this trial find that Amaral did traduce their fundamental rights- to a good name, privacy, family life etc?
The ban injunction's purpose was just to eradicate the book, it didn't contemplate the damages caused by it though those damages were motivating the initiative. This trial does.