Author Topic: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him  (Read 58578 times)

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Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #180 on: January 11, 2014, 09:45:53 PM »
It's a good point.

The way I see it is that, presuming the McCanns' innocence, their own best interests are one and the same with their daughter's, namely for parents and child to be reunited, and / or to learn what has happened and restore as much dignity and justice as is possible in the circumstances.

Even though I believe they made mistakes in their campaign, I don't believe these were the result of any conflict they may have had with their daughter's interest. They made mistakes simply because they made wrong decisions or were ill advised.

Only if they were guilty of something sinister could their actions be said to be at odds with attempting to benefit their daughter.

Your last sentence encapsulates the case, but I'm not sure it's as simple as you state. In the first week they were either economical with the truth (what they say is the truth that is) even with their own family, or their family were also consciously managing the release of information right from the start - whichever is the case the news about the patio door being unlocked was not reported immediately.

It's the most obvious early indication that reputation management was immediately high on the agenda (there's also the "jemmied shutters" issue, but that's not so clear cut), within hours and it does suggest it may also have been a factor in what they told the police and in production of the timelines.

So I don't think they were selfless at all, though there could be more than one reason for that - it's not necessarily indicative of knowledge of what happened to Madeleine. It is perhaps indicative that the urgency they expressed in the earliest media statements was not their only consideration however.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #181 on: January 11, 2014, 11:38:12 PM »
No Sherlock,  the decision to withhold those e fits from the public  cannot be  minimised like that

If Madeleine  was still alive,  then her life  may have depended on it

If the McCanns actions were never directly at odds with Madeleine's best interests,  as you suggest,  then the decision to keep those e fits out of the public domain is simply inexplicable

Well I did say in my post 'not to invalidate the exercise of examining the e-fit saga'. Yes, there were indeed  questions to be asked.

It is sad, however, that no matter what questions are asked and how they are answered, those e-fits don't look likely to produce results.

One of the reasons for that may of course be that they were released far too late. But even if they had been released earlier, do you think, different and yet bland looking as they are, they could have helped?

And regarding the McCanns' interests being at odds with their daughter's -returning to Lyall's point again - there is a distinction between doing things which are consciously self-serving,  and things that are done in good faith that for whatever reason don't succeed in bringing us any closer to finding Madeleine/ working out what happened. 

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #182 on: January 12, 2014, 12:09:41 AM »
Your last sentence encapsulates the case, but I'm not sure it's as simple as you state. In the first week they were either economical with the truth (what they say is the truth that is) even with their own family, or their family were also consciously managing the release of information right from the start - whichever is the case the news about the patio door being unlocked was not reported immediately.

It's the most obvious early indication that reputation management was immediately high on the agenda (there's also the "jemmied shutters" issue, but that's not so clear cut), within hours and it does suggest it may also have been a factor in what they told the police and in production of the timelines.

So I don't think they were selfless at all, though there could be more than one reason for that - it's not necessarily indicative of knowledge of what happened to Madeleine. It is perhaps indicative that the urgency they expressed in the earliest media statements was not their only consideration however.

Is it possible that there does not have to be a contradiction between 'reputation management', as you say, and doing the best in finding their daughter?

Wouldn't the McCanns have been correct to be hyper-conscious from the start of the fact that the eyes of the world were upon them, and fear that any suspicion of their guilt would detract from the focus of an investigation being to search for an abducted child? Could we understand and forgive certain discrepancies in this context, or even place those discrepancies in the same category as acting in the best interest of their child?

Now icabod and many others are going to cite the case of the e-fits. That saga could be considered taking reputation management too far. Yes.

Could that have been a mistake plain and simple, however? An over-reaction to the fear of Gerry McCann being placed under too much scrutiny?

The McCanns' repeated insistence of being innocent in the matter of dining away from the apartment, for example - ill advised, in my humble opinion - demonstrates their thinking that showing they got things right is the way to maintain support for searching for their child. If they were seen to be doing anything wrong, that would detract from any focus on finding their daughter and could also lead to suspicion falling directly on the parents.

These two things - maintaining their innocence, possibly to the point of glossing over certain facts;  and steering people in the direction of looking for their daughter - appear to be very closely linked in the McCann mind.

Assuming innocence of a major crime as a premise, could we forgive a lot of these things and consider them not to be selfish, but , in the mind of the McCanns at least ( if not in everyone else's) , entirely in keeping with the goal of finding Madeleine?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #183 on: January 12, 2014, 12:17:57 AM »

Snipped

Now icabod and many others are going to cite the case of the e-fits. That saga could be considered taking reputation management too far. Yes.

Could that have been a mistake plain and simple, however? An over-reaction to the fear of Gerry McCann being placed under too much scrutiny?

These two things - maintaining their innocence, possibly to the point of glossing over certain facts;  and steering people in the direction of looking for their daughter - appear to be very closely linked in the McCann mind.

The Mccanns had the efits 9 months before they made their documentary Madeleine Was Here...they certainly glossed over them....instead doing the exact opposite, showing Tannerman as the same man the Smiths saw....that is a distortion IMO not a steering in the right direction?..even without the efits it was a distortion of the Smiths statements vis a vis description of the man


 >@@(*&)

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #184 on: January 12, 2014, 12:23:11 AM »
The Mccanns had the efits 9 months before they made their documentary Madeleine Was Here...they certainly glossed over them....instead doing the exact opposite, showing Tannerman as the same man the Smiths saw....that is a distortion IMO not a steering in the right direction?..even without the efits it was a distortion of the Smiths statements vis a vis description of the man


 >@@(*&)

Good point, Red, and there was also the issue of the programme apparently trying to suggest three other witnesses had all seen the same man (Spotty) when that's not at all clear from the actual statements.

Another case of spin I think.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2014, 12:29:27 AM »
Good point, Red, and there was also the issue of the programme apparently trying to suggest three other witnesses had all seen the same man (Spotty) when that's not at all clear from the actual statements.

Another case of spin I think.

That is as clear as mud.....the 12 yr old girl was one of the witnesses, she did an e-fit...the man with the big dark glasses...in the pj files......he morphed into pimpleman/scarface/spottyman sketch two years later, one which was put on the suspects page on the official madeleine site rather than the actual efit....said efit is now sitting along on the site with all the other ones SY put up on crimewatch

Why is it such a dogs dinner?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2014, 12:30:16 AM »
Well I did say in my post 'not to invalidate the exercise of examining the e-fit saga'. Yes, there were indeed  questions to be asked.

It is sad, however, that no matter what questions are asked and how they are answered, those e-fits don't look likely to produce results.

One of the reasons for that may of course be that they were released far too late. But even if they had been released earlier, do you think, different and yet bland looking as they are, they could have helped?

And regarding the McCanns' interests being at odds with their daughter's -returning to Lyall's point again - there is a distinction between doing things which are consciously self-serving,  and things that are done in good faith that for whatever reason don't succeed in bringing us any closer to finding Madeleine/ working out what happened.

Whether releasing the e fits would have helped Madeleine is not the point Sherlock

The point is,  in what way did the McCann's decision to keep them out of the public domain support your claim that it was a choice that had Madeleine's best interest  at heart  ?   (  you did  claim that all their decisions,  whether misguided or not,  were never at odds with Madeleine's best interests,  didn't you  ?   ) 


Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #187 on: January 12, 2014, 12:30:21 AM »
Is it possible that there does not have to be a contradiction between 'reputation management', as you say, and doing the best in finding their daughter?

Wouldn't the McCanns have been correct to be hyper-conscious from the start of the fact that the eyes of the world were upon them, and fear that any suspicion of their guilt would detract from the focus of an investigation being to search for an abducted child? Could we understand and forgive certain discrepancies in this context, or even place those discrepancies in the same category as acting in the best interest of their child?

Now icabod and many others are going to cite the case of the e-fits. That saga could be considered taking reputation management too far. Yes.

Could that have been a mistake plain and simple, however? An over-reaction to the fear of Gerry McCann being placed under too much scrutiny?

The McCanns' repeated insistence of being innocent in the matter of dining away from the apartment, for example - ill advised, in my humble opinion - demonstrates their thinking that showing they got things right is the way to maintain support for searching for their child. If they were seen to be doing anything wrong, that would detract from any focus on finding their daughter and could also lead to suspicion falling directly on the parents.

These two things - maintaining their innocence, possibly to the point of glossing over certain facts;  and steering people in the direction of looking for their daughter - appear to be very closely linked in the McCann mind.

Assuming innocence of a major crime as a premise, could we forgive a lot of these things and consider them not to be selfish, but , in the mind of the McCanns at least ( if not in everyone else's) , entirely in keeping with the goal of finding Madeleine?

Of course it's possible (your first question) - everything still is in this case - but all your other points I think could equally apply if they were hiding knowledge of what happened to Madeleine. How can we know if they did certain things because they don't know what happened to her (and feared the police/family/world would never believe their story) or because they do know (and fabricated)?

How could we ever know?

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #188 on: January 12, 2014, 12:34:15 AM »
That is as clear as mud.....the 12 yr old girl was one of the witnesses, she did an e-fit...the man with the big dark glasses...in the pj files......he morphed into pimpleman/scarface/spottyman sketch two years later, one which was put on the suspects page on the official madeleine site rather than the actual efit....said efit is now sitting along on the site with all the other ones SY put up on crimewatch

Why is it such a dogs dinner?

You have a better memory than me ?{)(**

I lose track of these 'suspects'.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2014, 12:46:38 AM »
You have a better memory than me ?{)(**

I lose track of these 'suspects'.

Dont blame you, been dozens of them, unprecedented

Amaral was right when he said the other day its become an absurd theatre!

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2014, 12:57:37 AM »
Dont blame you, been dozens of them, unprecedented

Amaral was right when he said the other day its become an absurd theatre!

It has

...  this endless 'round up the usual suspects'  charade is becoming grotesque

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2014, 01:13:11 AM »
Of course it's possible (your first question) - everything still is in this case - but all your other points I think could equally apply if they were hiding knowledge of what happened to Madeleine. How can we know if they did certain things because they don't know what happened to her (and feared the police/family/world would never believe their story) or because they do know (and fabricated)?

How could we ever know?

It's a good question, Lyall.  I don't think the type of errors and mishaps - or fabrications even - we are seeing here constitute the types of fabrication we would see if the McCanns were covering up.

The hiring of a series of incompetent / corrupt detectives is an example. If the McCanns were engaging in a cover-up, they would have had to have been deliberately hiring people whom they knew would not get to the bottom of things. Or paying the detectives themselves to cover up or lie.  Too hard to believe the McCanns would think to do something like that - and be able to pull it off time after time.

Also requires a great deal of double think on the part of people trying to look at why the McCanns are doing what.

Detectives are only one example - obviously there are many others.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2014, 01:16:22 AM »
It has

...  this endless 'round up the usual suspects'  charade is becoming grotesque

Was that years ago.....


Just waiting for the next charade....why stop here....as I said earlier, alot rests on SY...lets see!

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2014, 01:19:16 AM »
Whether releasing the e fits would have helped Madeleine is not the point Sherlock

The point is,  in what way did the McCann's decision to keep them out of the public domain support your claim that it was a choice that had Madeleine's best interest  at heart  ?   (  you did  claim that all their decisions,  whether misguided or not,  were never at odds with Madeleine's best interests,  didn't you  ?   )

I claimed that I believe that what the McCanns are doing they are doing in earnest. I have no evidence.

I understand the main point about the e-fits is not whether they are helpful artistically or not. Just an unfortunate aspect to this whole thing.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral said the Maddie-case has 'ruined' him
« Reply #194 on: January 12, 2014, 01:22:42 AM »
Was that years ago.....


Just waiting for the next charade....why stop here....as I said earlier, alot rests on SY...lets see!

Yes,  Scotland Yard's investigation is pivotal

It should be noted that the  'grotesques'  fed to,  and  lined up in the press are not coming from them  ...  which is a positive