The dogs.....

[Mr Gray]

Ok, so put yourself in the shoes of an impartial investigator. You have numerous alerts all (and only) related to McCann properties and possessions.

What is your hypothesis, given you accept Grime 100%, for such alerts ONLY in McCann properties and possessions.

How, as an investigator, do you explain that, what conclusions and indications do you draw from them and how do those alerts frame your investigation?

my hypothesis is of no importance...we have had several hundred pages of this and got no where...I accept what grime says...the dog may be alerting to cadaverine contaminant but he cant be sure

[stephen25000]

Ok, so put yourself in the shoes of an impartial investigator. You have numerous alerts all (and only) related to McCann properties and possessions.

What is your hypothesis, given you accept Grime 100%, for such alerts ONLY in McCann properties and possessions.

How, as an investigator, do you explain that, what conclusions and indications do you draw from them and how do those alerts frame your investigation?

Excellent posts  Alberrtini.

 

[Mr Gray]

Why is it a waste of time? It's crucial t try and get some common ground on the issue of the dogs which usually go round and round and go nowhere.

there will be no common ground because you will not accept what grime says...grime is not sure ..end of

[Albertini]

Ok, so put yourself in the shoes of an impartial investigator. You have numerous alerts all (and only) related to McCann properties and possessions.

What is your hypothesis, given you accept Grime 100%, for such alerts ONLY in McCann properties and possessions.

How, as an investigator, do you explain that, what conclusions and indications do you draw from them and how do those alerts frame your investigation?

my hypothesis is of no importance...we have had several hundred pages of this and got no where...I accept what grime says...the dog may be alerting to cadaverine contaminant but he cant be sure

Sorry Dave that's just a cop out. Why can you give your hypotheses about over things but not the dogs?

[Mr Gray]

Sorry Dave that's just a cop out. Why can you give your hypotheses about over things but not the dogs?

quite simply from past experience it leads nowhere...except for another 200 pages of posts

[Albertini]

there will be no common ground because you will not accept what grime says...grime is not sure ..end of

This is not about what i think or accept, it's about your opinions Dave.

You're not copping out again are you?

[Mr Gray]

This is not about what i think or accept, it's about your opinions Dave.

You're not copping out again are you?

no...when posters post rubbish such as "the dogs tell us Maddie died in the apartment"...and no one objects...whats the point

[Albertini]

quite simply from past experience it leads nowhere...except for another 200 pages of posts

No i think this is a true revelation moment. You have said you accept Grime 100%.

You are the first McCann supporter to my knowledge to have admitted that. It's a a real breakthrough and we could make some progress here for the sake of the whole board.

[Albertini]

no...when posters post rubbish such as "the dogs tell us Maddie died in the apartment"...and no one objects...whats the point

Forget what others have said. I haven't said that and it's me and you talking here. We#re talking about what you think not what random others have said.

[Mr Gray]

No i think this is a true revelation moment. You have said you accept Grime 100%.

You are the first McCann supporter to my knowledge to have admitted that. It's a a real breakthrough and we could make some progress here for the sake of the whole board.

I can accept what Grime says because he does not confirm a death in the apartment and he does not confirm that the dogs are reacting to cadaverine

[Albertini]

I can accept what Grime says because he does not confirm a death in the apartment and he does not confirm that the dogs are reacting to cadaverine

Great, so what can you take from his work on the case, what pointers and indications do you take from them?

[Eleanor]

Thank you Anna for posting the links - much appreciated.

If the contents of links are c&p'd - I tend not to click on the links themselves as I can get problems with screen freezing. 

For the benefit of posters who think I lied.  --   Having read the contents of the first link - and having no reason to disbelieve the contents  I used the information therein in my posts.    I didn't click on the 2nd link because I believed I already had the information that I needed.   

The following is the report I used and I still see no reason why I shouldn't have.

--------------------------------------------------
Date: 31 July 2007 - 20h00:

Report: Inspection of the apartments
Participants:

PJ: Tavares A. & Ricardo P. Inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime (UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert),
Eddie & Keela (English Springers)
Silvia B. Manager of the Ocean Club complex.

On that date, inspections were conducted in the apartments occupied by members of the McCann family as well as the group who were with them at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It was only on that date that the apartment, identified as that of the parents, was empty allowing further investigation which was authorised by the respective occupants. Thus, at the appointed time, the search with the dogs began, covering the following apartments:

5A (Gerry/Kate McCann):
 
From 20h00 to 21h20, the dogs go through.
 
20h20: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
 
20h22: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
 
From 20h47 to 21h20, the blood detecting dog goes through.
 
21h10 The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.

5B (Matthew/Rachael Oldfield):
 
21h24 to 21h27: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5D (Russell O'Brien/Jane Tanner):
 
21h29 to 21h34: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5H (David/Fiona Payne & Dianne Webster):
 
21h35 to 21h38: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

4G (McCanns' second Ocean Club apartment):
 
21h42 to 21h45: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

21h49 to 22h00: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window.


End quote.

That report is a joke, right?

Twenty minutes before the dog alerts to anything in The McCann appartment, but barely minutes spent in the other appartments.  Not even as much as five minutes in some.
And Eddie had just been let out of his cage before entering The McCann Appartment.  Of course he was excited.
That is the best bit of grandstanding I have seen in a long time.
And as for the car, it had posters in the windows which mysteriously disappeared half way through the garage search.

[stephen25000]

That report is a joke, right?

Twenty minutes before the dog alerts to anything in The McCann appartment, but barely minutes spent in the other appartments.  Not even as much as five minutes in some.
And Eddie had just been let out of his cage before entering The McCann Appartment.  Of course he was excited.
That is the best bit of grandstanding I have seen in a long time.
And as for the car, it had posters in the windows which mysteriously disappeared half way through the garage search.

 8-)(--) 8-)(--) 8-)(--)

Perhaps this thread should be retitled 'dis the dogs'.

[sadie]

Last night Benice, I posted in support of you too.  Two posts

Thec second was a substantial post, and it took a long time to produce because I needed to repeatedly look at the doggy video and check, in order to analyse.   But I see, despite its information, it has been deleted.  I wonder why?

I detailed a number of relevant points about the video including the cammanding back of Eddie four times.  Altogether he was by the Mccann car 5 times.

Grime may not have realised it, but he kept calling back AND rapping on the Mccann car in a much more persistent way than he did with any other cars,.  Most had no calling back or rapping at all.

Eddie would have little doubt as to which car he was to react to with all this cueing.  You were absolutely correct

 

[Mr Gray]

Great, so what can you take from his work on the case, what pointers and indications do you take from them?

off to work..talk later