The search area west of Rua Primeiro de Maio.

[pegasus]

Press said SY were going to search the empty land west of Rua Primeiro de Maio but then it seems SY went home without doing so. The northern end of that land was at the time:
(1) The closest unused land to the apartment.
(2) Shielded from public view by high opaque fence and trees.
(3) Inaccessible to dog walkers.
(4) Accessible (by sneaking through gap under fence) to someone wishing to hide something.
For those 4 reasons it would have been sensible to search there.



The Ocean Club Garden complex and the McCann apartment (depicted with blue dot) from where Madeleine
 disappeared, can be seen top right.  Rua Primeiro de Maio runs down the middle of the photo. 

[pathfinder73]

Press said SY were going to search the empty land west of Rua Primeiro de Maio but then it seems SY went home without doing so. The northern end of that land was at the time:
(1) The closest unused land to the apartment.
(2) Shielded from public view by high opaque fence and trees.
(3) Inaccessible to dog walkers.
For those 3 reasons it would have been sensible to search there.

I agree that they should search at the wasteland because in my theory the body was hidden and later moved from there (maybe northwest outside perimeter fence) at 10pm.

[pegasus]

I agree that they should search at the wasteland because in my theory the body was hidden and later moved from there (maybe northwest outside perimeter fence) at 10pm.

It does not make sense to hide something just outside that fence when as you have seen in photos some of the metal panels around the north part had a gap underneath which a person could just fit through and then be totally invisible from public view inside the panel fence - it's the only place close to the apartment offering this invisibilty to someone wishing to hide something without being observed.

[pathfinder73]

It does not make sense to hide something just outside that fence when as you have seen in photos some of the metal panels around the north part had a gap underneath which a person could just fit through and then be totally invisible from public view inside the panel fence - it's the only place close to the apartment offering this invisibilty to someone wishing to hide something without being observed.

Wasteland seems safer if he knew he could get under the fence in the dark. Otherwise a bin or bushes are first thoughts.

[sadie]

Press said SY were going to search the empty land west of Rua 1 Maio but then it seems SY went home without doing so. The northern end of that land was at the time:
(1) The closest unused land to the apartment.
(2) Shielded from public view by high opaque fence and trees.
(3) Inaccessible to dog walkers.
(4) Accessible (by sneaking through gap under fence) to someone wishing to hide something.
For those 4 reasons it would have been sensible to search there.

When I went there I dismissed any idea of anyone carrying a little girl on to that piece of waste land.

1)  It was pretty inaccessable and in view of the main road
2)  THe eastern edge was steep and shaley... very unsafe to walk on with coke like bits.
3)  Imo, it would have been dangerous for someone on their own to scramble down there ... especially after dark
4)  Imo it would have been impossible for someone carrying a child to scramble down from the eastern edge. 

I did not look at the western edge cos that was on the wrong side, neither did I look at the northern edge.


If it was in the least accessible, I feel sure thta the searchers would have given it a good going over.  Soz, Pegasus but I think it is a non runner.  Maybe SY thought the same?

[pegasus]

Wasteland seems safer if he knew he could get under the fence in the dark. Otherwise a bin or bushes are first thoughts.

Wouldn't take much observation, even in dark, to see it's possible to get under.
Someone walking alongside the fence even in no-moon darkness can see the ground so can also see the gap next to the ground.
Anyway seems like a big omission that Tito and Muzzy had to go home before they got to that area, if only to rule it out.

[pegasus]

When I went there I dismissed any idea of anyone carrying a little girl on to that piece of waste land.

1)  It was pretty inaccessable and in view of the main road
2)  THe eastern edge was steep and shaley... very unsafe to walk on with coke like bits.
3)  Imo, it would have been dangerous for someone on their own to scramble down there ... especially after dark
4)  Imo it would have been impossible for someone carrying a child to scramble down from the eastern edge. 

I did not look at the western edge cos that was on the wrong side, neither did I look at the northern edge.
If it was in the least accessible, I feel sure thta the searchers would have given it a good going over.  Soz, Pegasus but I think it is a non runner.  Maybe SY thought the same?

What year was that?
Maybe you went there after the opaque metal panel fence which you can't see through (present in May 2007) had been replaced by the more recent metal wire  fence which you can see through?

Also I think the north or northwest sides would be the more likely entry point

[sadie]

What year was that?
Maybe you went there after the opaque metal panel fence which you can't see through (present in May 2007) had been replaced by the more recent metal wire  fence which you can see through?

Also I think the north or northwest sides would be the more likely entry point

Pegasus I only had three nights there and I wanted to have a quick look at Figueira (Joana Cipriano) and Bensafrim [some oddities there !] so I was unable to do certain things as thoroughly as I would have liked.  I made sure of having a good look at Ocean Club eating at the outdoor Tapas restaurant and I also had a good look at the front door and realised just how dark and vulnrerable that was.  I saw a number of other things too but was unable to fit everything in.

I have a remberance, I think, of open metal work being around the waste ground.  It certainly wasn't like it is now, a building site, I think?   When I started to go down the slope, my overall impression was that it was far too dangerous, even in the daylight.  I didn't go any further and dismissed it from my thioughts as a likely place that bundleman / smith man would have gone - just too dangerous..  I looked north and I looked south and it appeared the same in both directions

 It is quite a long pierce of waste land, but if I remember correctly it was enclosed all the way around apart from this bit I scrambled thru.  This was summer 2010.  Faith might be able to help you and I feel sure Heri could if he were around.

[pegasus]

Thanks Sadie, that is interesting, about the slope and the shale, on the east side.
However I still think it is unwise to rule out a place so very close to the apartment, just because it was in one part difficult terrain.
The northern part of this plot, as you can see on google aerial images, in addition to being in 2007 completely shielded from view by a tall metal panel fence, has (unlike the other parts of the plot) good tree cover, and I just note that invisibility, provided by the combination of a high fence and tree cover, is something which any concealor of any type would value.

[sadie]

Thanks Sadie, that is interesting, about the slope and the shale, on the east side.
However I still think it is unwise to rule out a place so very close to the apartment, just because it was in one part difficult terrain.
The northern part of this plot, as you can see on google aerial images, in addition to being in 2007 completely shielded from view by a tall metal panel fence, has (unlike the other parts of the plot) good tree cover, and I just note that invisibility, provided by the combination of a high fence and tree cover, is something which any concealor of any type would value.

I originally wondered if Madeleine was carried the full length of Rua d'Escola, possibly skirting along the north-eastern edge of that waste land, just on the waste land.  I didn't have the time to walk that.   

I also wondered if she was taken around the southern edge of the waste land, but unless she was going to the Staff quarters or somewhere near, then it seemed silly to go west from near the bottom of Rua Maio, when they were almost down by the church already   That would have been a lot longer than going straight down south towards the Church or little rocky beach,

Of course we have to face facts and not have preset ideas, maybe he was taking her somewhere altogether different, but it was somewhere in that direction.

[Brietta]

Press said SY were going to search the empty land west of Rua Primeiro de Maio but then it seems SY went home without doing so. The northern end of that land was at the time:
(1) The closest unused land to the apartment.
(2) Shielded from public view by high opaque fence and trees.
(3) Inaccessible to dog walkers.
(4) Accessible (by sneaking through gap under fence) to someone wishing to hide something.
For those 4 reasons it would have been sensible to search there.



The Ocean Club Garden complex and the McCann apartment (depicted with blue dot) from where Madeleine
 disappeared, can be seen top right.  Rua Primeiro de Maio runs down the middle of the photo.

I think the devil is in the detail, pegasus, the press said it but did Scotland Yard confirm it officially?

[pegasus]

I think the devil is in the detail, pegasus, the press said it but did Scotland Yard confirm it officially?

Yes it's possible the press were mistaken. Maybe SY never intended to search this plot. Or maybe they wanted to but couldn't get a warrant. I don't know. Just saying it seems like a logical place to search, the northern end with trees, because it's well concealed and it's literally just over the road from block 4. I think early searches were not looking for deliberate concealment.

Two places I never heard any mention of are the lift engine rooms of block 5 and of block 4. Presumably access is by a door or hatch at the very top of each block's stairwell? 

[sadie]

Yes it's possible the press were mistaken. Maybe SY never intended to search this plot. Or maybe they wanted to but couldn't get a warrant. I don't know. Just saying it seems like a logical place to search, the northern end with trees, because it's well concealed and it's literally just over the road from block 4. I think early searches were not looking for deliberate concealment.

Two places I never heard any mention of are the lift engine rooms of block 5 and of block 4. Presumably access is by a door or hatch at the very top of each block's stairwell?

Perhaps the special scanning cameras in  the helicopters showed nothing of interest ... so why waste their time digging?

[pathfinder73]

Perhaps the special scanning cameras in  the helicopters showed nothing of interest ... so why waste their time digging?

Nobody stayed there because Smithman passed the wasteland with the child. That doesn't mean that the child wasn't hidden there prior to that sighting. Two moves in my theory. First move away from the crime scene. Second move to her destination and seen passing the Smith family. Why not one move? Time constraint to keep your alibi.

[sadie]

Nobody stayed there because Smithman passed the wasteland with the child. That doesn't mean that the child wasn't hidden there prior to that sighting. Two moves in my theory. First move away from the crime scene. Second move to her destination and seen passing the Smith family.

I think the same, two moves.

Move 1 to the Staff quarters and

Move 2 from there onwards to where-ever (past Aoife either south down the steps towards the sea possibly, or East towards Malinkas and the church

But it is only an educated guess.  Not fact